Doping in Football

Smokin Joe

Dispatches, C4 8;00 Monday night, the results of an investigation into doping in football which claims to have evidence that positive tests have been covered up.

Should make interesting viewing.

Ben6899

I'll be watching this. Without entering libel grounds, I've suspected a certain club of malpractice for a few seasons now.

Let's see what comes of all this.

Stewie Griffin

Nice one smokin, sent it on to a few naysayers too.

rick_chasey

I got the impression it was drugs, not doping.

As in, recreational.

Stewie Griffin

Rick Chasey wrote:

I got the impression it was drugs, not doping.

As in, recreational.

Dispatches investigates the use of both recreational and performance-enhancing substances in our national game.

Reporter Antony Barnett examines football's drug-testing regime, raises questions about how the sport deals with its drug cheats and also looks at the use of some bizarre but legal treatments players undergo.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/disp ... /episode-1

deptfordmarmoset

Rick Chasey wrote:

I got the impression it was drugs, not doping.

As in, recreational.

Ah, but 'tis both.

Dispatches investigates the use of both recreational and performance-enhancing substances in our national game.

Reporter Antony Barnett examines football's drug-testing regime, raises questions about how the sport deals with its drug cheats and also looks at the use of some bizarre but legal treatments players undergo.

EDIT: Stewie beat me by a full 3 minutes! I'm going to have to find some way of upping my performance.

Ben6899

Stewie Griffin wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I got the impression it was drugs, not doping.

As in, recreational.

Dispatches investigates the use of both recreational and performance-enhancing substances in our national game.

Reporter Antony Barnett examines football's drug-testing regime, raises questions about how the sport deals with its drug cheats and also looks at the use of some bizarre but legal treatments players undergo.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/disp ... /episode-1

Oh. It's just looking at the English game? Dammit.

verylonglegs

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

Ben6899

verylonglegs wrote:

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

I might get flamed for this, but having played a bit I would call this "using experience" rather than "cheating". It was never rocket science as far as I was concerned playing full- or wing-back.

Under a bit of pressure from a youthful winger in my own channel? Get a handful of his shirt, lean in and hit the deck. 99% success rate. Always some stick from the touchline/supporters who knew the score, but I've a few medals along with the other talented lads who know how to play the referee. It just helps in those sticky situations, that's all; if a lad is naive enough to tangle unnecessarily, then he'll cost his team 80yds.

verylonglegs

Oh I wouldn't flame you, I just think anyone who is prepared to overlook that sort of thing on the pitch has no right to get uptight about possible doping.

To be fair I was fairly unique in my opinion, I got moaned at by my team mates sometimes for being too honest, I played probably a decade on both saturdays and sundays at centre half mostly and was booked only once..even then it was because the ref thought it was me rather the other centre half who'd actually committed the foul.

Ben6899

Another footballer found his way to road cycling. Too many injuries!?

I was a hypocrite; if I felt someone hit the deck easily from a shoulder charge or dived in the box then I would let them know. And the referee. But football is played in the head as well - anyone knows that - for example, question EVERY offside the linesman gives; keep him in doubt of his own judgment. And always be diplomatic with the referee.

A good player can win a game with his mind and mouth.

Smokin Joe

verylonglegs wrote:

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

Nobody has died because of a dodgy offside decision or because someone dived to win a penalty. We all know why doping is unacceptable and should be clamped on as firmly as possible, it has far more serious consequences than the normal run of the mill rule bending.

squired

Smokin Joe wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

Nobody has died because of a dodgy offside decision or because someone dived to win a penalty. We all know why doping is unacceptable and should be clamped on as firmly as possible, it has far more serious consequences than the normal run of the mill rule bending.

Take this scenario. Last game of the season between 1 and 2 in the league. Player A dives, gets a penalty, which is converted. Player B is feeling jaded before the game, so puts on a testosterone patch. He is only on the pitch for 5 minutes and has no influence on the result (his team lose).

Player A carries on with no consequences, despite blatantly cheating. Player B tests positive, is branded a drug cheat and gets a two year ban.

To me it is a complete joke. I feel the same way about cricketers not walking when they've edged the ball.

verylonglegs

Smokin Joe wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

Nobody has died because of a dodgy offside decision or because someone dived to win a penalty. We all know why doping is unacceptable and should be clamped on as firmly as possible, it has far more serious consequences than the normal run of the mill rule bending.

OK, genuine question then as I'm not trying to be a smart arse...have there been any unexplained/suspicious deaths of footballers?

Stewie Griffin

Is diving for a free kick that far removed from claiming a throw in knowing the ball came off you last? That's cheating is it not?

verylonglegs

Ben6899 wrote:

Another footballer found his way to road cycling. Too many injuries!?

I was a hypocrite; if I felt someone hit the deck easily from a shoulder charge or dived in the box then I would let them know. And the referee. But football is played in the head as well - anyone knows that - for example, question EVERY offside the linesman gives; keep him in doubt of his own judgment. And always be diplomatic with the referee.

A good player can win a game with his mind and mouth.

Yeah, ankle surgery...was never the same again. I can run in a straight line but the turning involved with football is a no go.

I never played to a particularly high standard but could tell the players who had before they'd even touched the ball due to the little pushes and pulls, the old semi-pro's eking out a few more years in the sunday leagues. They were doing it out of habit without thinking but they'd have been able to run rings round me anyway which is what always amused me.

rubertoe

verylonglegs wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

Nobody has died because of a dodgy offside decision or because someone dived to win a penalty. We all know why doping is unacceptable and should be clamped on as firmly as possible, it has far more serious consequences than the normal run of the mill rule bending.

OK, genuine question then as I'm not trying to be a smart ars*...have there been any unexplained/suspicious deaths of footballers?

Loads

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_as ... le_playing

squired

I wouldn't be surprised if part of this Dispatches episode focuses on the fact that some positive tests are not publicised and often explained as long term injuries. i.e. Player X has suffered a knee injury in training and will be out of action for 12 months.

eskimo Joe

the Motherwell 1991 cup winning team has had 4 ex team mates die young http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article6733290.ece Davie Cooper died of a brain hemorrage, but 3 guys from a team of 11 seems a high percentage to me.

BigG67

rubertoe wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

Well considering the sport won't even talk or consider dealing with the explicit cheating that goes on right before our eyes and is recorded by television ie. diving, why would anyone be shocked about a cover up of failed dope tests? Because to me it would be utterly ridiculous to ban players for possible performance enhancing drugs when the simple act of stealing a penalty or free-kick has far more impact on games. No-one else feel this?

Nobody has died because of a dodgy offside decision or because someone dived to win a penalty. We all know why doping is unacceptable and should be clamped on as firmly as possible, it has far more serious consequences than the normal run of the mill rule bending.

OK, genuine question then as I'm not trying to be a smart ars*...have there been any unexplained/suspicious deaths of footballers?

Loads

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_as ... le_playing

:shock: By no means conclusive nor scientific but there were no deaths due to heart attacks before 1973 (on this list) but the vast majority after then are. Also this is only those who died at a match.

Circumstantial I realise but a little suspicious.

Smokin Joe

There does seem to be a high incidence of heart attacks in recent years, rather strange among young athletes and one of the things that first alerted people to the use of EPO among cyclists.

cougie

There's got to be PEDs used in pro football. They have the cash to do it, and probably to cover it up to.

Should be worth watching.

jawooga

Interesting that 'playing the ref' and living on the edge has come in to this, given that the Richie McCaw's All Blacks kicked off the rugby world cup this morning. The game was refereed well but NZ were only caught playing the ball on the deck half the time IMhO.

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Smokin Joe

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Try playing a tough competitive match and see how you feel after ninety minutes. It doesn't matter how skillful you are if you can't run and the opposition can you're stuffed.

Stewie Griffin

Smokin Joe wrote:

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Try playing a tough competitive match and see how you feel after ninety minutes. It doesn't matter how skillful you are if you can't run and the opposition can you're stuffed.

Then play again in 3 days and then again in another 3 or 4 days for 8 Months. It's not just on the pitch but recovery.

ynyswen24

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Champions League Final...

Smokin Joe

ynyswen24 wrote:

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Champions League Final...

One does wonder how certain teams seem to have as much energy at the end of a game that they started out with when their opponents are on their knees. And when the teams in question are from countries with relaxed attitudes to doping...

jawooga

Smokin Joe wrote:

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Try playing a tough competitive match and see how you feel after ninety minutes. It doesn't matter how skillful you are if you can't run and the opposition can you're stuffed.

Fair point, well made. I knew my 2nd sentence was questionable. I play a cynical libero role myself so pace and power has always played second fiddle to reading the game and the ref. And even then it takes me until midweek to recover!

I don't doubt these practices go on in football - football is not a special case within sport after all. And there must be a lot of pressure / temptation at the highest levels. But given how well remunerated footballers are, even at league 1 level, I think they'd be absolute numpties to jeopardise their careers. Whereas, I can see the temptation for a sprinter or a boxer must be massive as the only way of earning mega bucks is to be in the top few individuals in the world.

btw - I'm not excusing anyone, or trying to stigmatise certain sports - just a brain dump.

jawooga

ynyswen24 wrote:

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Champions League Final...

2005?

snailracer

Rio Ferdinand copped a 6-month ban merely for missing a drug test - it wasn't even the case that they tested him and he came up positive. I can only conclude that, in the Premiership, the issue is taken fairly seriously.

verylonglegs

Smokin Joe wrote:

ynyswen24 wrote:

jawooga wrote:

I have more of a problem (or at least I think it gives more of an advantage) when doping is used in sports where power/endurance is >90% of the game e.g. athletics, cycling, rowing. All sports need a clean image and level playing field but I'd question how much impact that doping has in football.

Champions League Final...

One does wonder how certain teams seem to have as much energy at the end of a game that they started out with when their opponents are on their knees. And when the teams in question are from countries with relaxed attitudes to doping...

Man United have been the masters of pressing to the final whistle and getting that last minute goal for many many years, why were they never accused then? Is it suddenly an issue because a foreign team does it better?