Help Please....

rtorbs

Not sure where I stand on this one....

Bought an Mmmbop frame from an indepandant bike builder who has a website and an ebay outlet in May 2011 and it was sold as a new frame, and to all intents and purposes it was...it was un marked and I gave it a thourough once over so no worries.

fast forward 4 months and its developed a crack on the piece of tubing that houses the seatpost (about 1/3 way down), at first i thought it was cosmetic but i picked back a bit of paint with a pin and theres a spilt in the tubing and the pin goes right through....

Obviously I bought it in good faith, I paid good money for it as i really wanted it but not sure where I go with it. Its clearly defective and shouldnt have made the paint stage.

Ive mailed Ragley and am waiting for a reply and ive also advised the guy i bought it off that im in comms and to expect me to be in contact....

but where do i stand legally in terms of warrenty ? Its not as a result of wear and tear, I have invoices to prove legit purchase, the frame is otherwise in top condition and you can tell that it isnt old....

Any help or advice would be good
Cheers

Edit - image (in case anyone cares?! lol)


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/813/ragely.jpg/

benpinnick

You have a legal right to expect up to a 6 year life from any goods you buy, so regardless of any limitations in the additional warranty that Ragley provide, you are entitled to a replacement or repair.

Unfortunately this responsibility lies primarily with the seller (off of Ebay) which will make things a little harder, but I wouldn't sweat it too much, I am sure if you cannot get the seller to replace it, Ragley will.

Remember though, whatever happens, unless you damaged it you have a legal right to get it fixed.

MountainMonster

Just to let you know, the 6 year life does not mean if it breaks within 6 years of buying it that you automatically get a replacement. That is only in extreme cases, and in cases such as this you would have no chance trying to get a replacement 6 years later.

Contact the seller, as they have the job of trying to prove that it wasn't faulty, and they will most likely offer a replacement straight away.[url][/url]

rtorbs

Ok cool, thats reassuring....

im under no doubt that the guy I bought it off sold it in good faith, he had one of each of the colours built up as full bikes so i mailed him and asked for him to provide proof of purchase from Ragley in the event that im asked to provide it....

Now i guess its just a waiting game.....im relucatant to go buy a replacement of any kind in the event that i get this one swapped or repaired but im kinda bummed about not being able to ride as i have no second bike....

Will wait and see if Ragley get back to me....I hope so

[not sure about a replacement from the seller though, he only had 2, a 16" which i got and 20", plus theyve been discontinued now ]

rtorbs

Spoke to the seller last night who has agreed to go back to CRC where he originally puchased the frame from so am currently waiting to find out what happens next (nothing from Ragley yet....not even an acknowledgement of my email)......will prob have to return the frame to him in order to return to CRC ? guess i might get a credit note for the original value to put towards one of the 2011 models seen as though i cant get a replacement anymore......

oh the joys.....

Anonymous

Yeah, the awkward thing is the seller is responsible, or at least you have to try through them first. They'll have to take it up with CRC and CRC with Ragley. But you might be able to negotiate to deal direct with Ragley.

Credit note with CRC should be none of your business. You either get your money back or a replacement frame, even if it's latest model. See if all the parties will be happy simply with Ragley just replacing the frame direct. No hassle then for CRC or the seller to refund then and Ragley would be ultimately dealing with the refund/replacement at least to CRC anyway.

paulbox

You say "it was sold as a new frame, and to all intents and purposes it was...". Was it new or was he selling it as new?

If it wasn't new there might be warranty issues, also, if he isn't an approved Ragley distributor that might also cause some issues.

rtorbs

deadkenny wrote:

Yeah, the awkward thing is the seller is responsible, or at least you have to try through them first. They'll have to take it up with CRC and CRC with Ragley. But you might be able to negotiate to deal direct with Ragley.

Credit note with CRC should be none of your business. You either get your money back or a replacement frame, even if it's latest model. See if all the parties will be happy simply with Ragley just replacing the frame direct. No hassle then for CRC or the seller to refund then and Ragley would be ultimately dealing with the refund/replacement at least to CRC anyway.

Anything at this stage would be good.....

The guy i bought it from in all fairness has been totally sound, he could'nt apologise enough and has agreed to take it up with CRC but the logisitics of sorting it are likely to be a pain in the @rse.....unless like you say they just offer a rep. Incidently the guy i bought the frame from builds a number of Ragleys and has a scott scale still for sale also, and he said he's speak to Ragley direct also......
Just not liking this whole not knowing when im gonna get sorted thing.....dont want to just go out and get a another frame off my own back in case this gets resolved.....

and looking at the 2011 range, the blue pig x looks sounds but its steel so not sure on the weight and the seatpost diamiter is 30.9 compared to the 31.6 of the mmmbop thus rendering my brand new thompson elite seatpost useless to add further insult to injury.....:( bugged... offers anyone? lol

rtorbs

PaulBox wrote:

You say "it was sold as a new frame, and to all intents and purposes it was...". Was it new or was he selling it as new?

If it wasn't new there might be warranty issues, also, if he isn't an approved Ragley distributor that might also cause some issues.

no it was new....basically he built both a 16" and a 20" but never sold either, he agreed to split it on request after having it sat in his shop for however long.....i checked the frame over totally and there were no signs of ear and tear, cable rub etc etc so im under no doubt it was unridden

As to whether or not hes an appoved dealer is another issue...prob unlikely....im hoping worst case he can go back to CRC as a consumer and get a rep as I would have done had i purchased from there directly myself ?!

maybe im just gonna learn the hard way but it wont be through lack of trying to sort what I can only describe as a genuine case

1mancity2

"The guy i bought it from in all fairness has been totally sound"

Has he offered you a replacment or a full refund?

cooldad

Would you without seeing the frame first?

MountainMonster

If you have the receipt for the frame itself, why not take care of it yourself. It finally just clicked he is not actually a registered company, but more an individual who builds bikes and sells them on.

1mancity2

cooldad wrote:

Would you without seeing the frame first?

No but I would have mentioned it to the buyer, if the frame is in perfect condition apart from the crack, no dings or signs of damage etc

rtorbs

cooldad wrote:

Would you without seeing the frame first?

Apologies but would I what ?

rtorbs

MountainMonster wrote:

If you have the receipt for the frame itself, why not take care of it yourself. It finally just clicked he is not actually a registered company, but more an individual who builds bikes and sells them on.

yeah sorry thats a better reflection.....but despite that, as long as he takes ownership of the frame (which he is doing) then surely its eligible for an exchange of some kind as its clearly defective?

1mancity2

As a last resort you could always get the frame repaired and repainted.

Odviously your a long way from this course of action.

rtorbs

MountainMonster wrote:

If you have the receipt for the frame itself, why not take care of it yourself. It finally just clicked he is not actually a registered company, but more an individual who builds bikes and sells them on.

i have a 3rd party receipt from the seller yes...but obviously its useless at crc.....ill see what he comes back with anyway....hes not hiding from me, if he stalls then ill push for a refund.....plus i know where he lives :twisted:

MountainMonster

Ah, I understood that you had the original receipt for the frame, not a 3rd party one. That changes things quite a bit, he seems to be sorting you out well though.

rtorbs

1mancity2 wrote:

As a last resort you could always get the frame repaired and repainted.

Odviously your a long way from this course of action.

thought about that....def last port of call....plus if i was gonna split it again id probably want to buy new one.....direct from a 'registered seller' so as to be covered going forward......at the end of the day my LBS didnt have the frame or id have gone there...no one did cos they were long gone, i wanted one so i took a chance and unfortunately its backfired (at least in the short term)

you live and learn i guess !

supersonic

If he is a dealer and has a company set up, and is selling this item through this, then you should be covered by basic statutory rights unless this item was explicity described as 2nd hand, or at owners risk. CRC don't have to do anything - the bike does not belong to him anymore. They only have to deal with the original owner, and that is not him. Did he offer a warranty? This is a binding contract, in addition to your rights.

Did you buy from ebay?

The '6 years' rule is the time period you are allowed to put in a claim, not the time period goods are expected to last, nor is 6 years a standard warranty period.

rtorbs

A rep from CRC has been in contact with me today, looks like Brant sent my email to them and ive got a POC for the returns team !

Well pleased......hope its sorted fairly soon

MountainMonster

Sounds like a good result in the end then, glad to hear it.

paulbox

cooldad wrote:

Would you without seeing the frame first?

Giant sent out a replacement for my Anthem frame based on three photos.

rtorbs

MountainMonster wrote:

Sounds like a good result in the end then, glad to hear it.

I dont want to jinx myself so im keeping schtum for now lol but indications are good....worst case ill get the seller to go back directly, either way should be sound.

Can anyone confirm the following though....

Does the 2011 line up of Blue pigs/pig x's have a replaceable derailleur hanger like the Mmmbop ? it doesnt look like it but could be mistaken....and if not are they likely to break and if so whats the solution ?

Im not looking to break one lol but ive knocked my mmmbop a few times and bent the actual rear mech so def possible to bust ha

1mancity2

Looks built in to me, hope you get the frame sorted.

rtorbs

Already 4 days without a ride and im starting to go mad.....

So I decided that im not gonna wait till I get CRC to sort my frame as it may take while yet, and if for any reason Im not covered then ill only have to buy another anyway....plus if I get a replacement, I can still sell it to get back some of the costs

But can i find a long travel hardtail frame that I want and within budget? can i feck.....Blue pig, pig x, evil sovereign, 456.... all gone.....whats going on ? Only thing i can find is the 456 carbon and im not sure only cos I've no experience with carbon, im not keen on black and the decals are all whack!

Should be able to get a Ragley or Soverign by end of the month but I want someyhing NOW lol

Also how mad would I have to be to strip and re powder coat a brand new frame ?......im seriously thinking of re doing the blue pig x (not keen on the dark colours) ....what do you reckon ? I know its a warrently issue again but am thinking if I had any further issues id claim on my insurance as they'd be non the wiser and id have a bike I really really wanted

rtorbs

2 weeks later and ive agreed to return the frame to POTB for a refund....CRC will then take it up with the seller

Now whilst im kind of pleased, whatever i get is going to incurr consequential losses not least a new seat post (thompson elite....well bugged) seat post clamp, front mech and headset

but what now though ? thinking of jumping ship and getting an evil sovereign but cant try one so not sure....

Any advice anyone ?

rtorbs

1 month later and ive managed to secure a new Mk2 blue pig after at least 20 emails and as many calls around the country !! ....think i prefer it to the MMmbop too

[Mods can you close/delete the following thread (and this one as its resolved?) as the mmmbop has gone to the bicycle graveyard in the sky and ill recreate a new one for the pig later in the week when the parts land....]

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12779576&highlight=

cheers

Red.Devil.Ghost

I think you had a good result with this. It could have gone very differently.

While there are many perfectly genuine people out there selling decent stuff, if I bought a second hand bike and the frame cracked or something, I wouldn't have a leg to stand on, and rightly so. At least buying new you do have the piece of mind.

Its a shame, as there are lots of decent second hand bikes to be had.