2011 Gilbert vs 2010 Cancellara
Gilbert seems to be in better shape this year than Cancellara was in 2010. Gilbert was just coming to form at the end of the 2010 season, and was the strongest rider at the 2010 world Championships Road Race, despite making a tactical mistake in the final km and being overtaken by a few riders before the finish. What has Thor done to defend is rainbow jersey? Certainly not as much as Gilbert has done if he were defending it. He won 4 classics in a row 2011, Cancellara only won 3 in 2010. Gilbert was quicker up the Muur van Geraardsbergen climb in the 2011 Tour of Flanders; besting Cancellara's time in 2010 by a few seconds. At the 2011 Tour de France, Gibert counterattacked Cancellara's late breakaway to win the stage, proving the superior athlete. On the other hand, Cancellara's 2011 performances have mostly been 2nd's and 3rd's, while he still tries to break away but gets caught by the Peleton in the closing meters. Seems its more of the team change to LEAPARD TREK than his fitness, tho
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Gilbert has panache and demonstrated what a good classics rider looks like.
Whereas L-T and Cancellara just got up everyones noses with the pretentious cr@p and so every team took it upon themselves to make sure L-T didn't win.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0 -
It's also probably to do with the fact that Gilbert has been on 100% top form this year and Cancellara hasn't. All athletes have good and bad days or even seasons. Best example I can think of is Wiggins...sweet FA in in 2010 (one day at Giro excepted) to 3rd at Paris Nice, winning Dauphine, winning Nat Champs and having a good Vuelta (so far) in 2011."I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0
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Monty Dog wrote:Gilbert has panache and demonstrated what a good classics rider looks like.
Whereas L-T and Cancellara just got up everyones noses with the pretentious cr@p and so every team took it upon themselves to make sure L-T didn't win.
I am intrigued as to what you base this on ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
inkyfingers wrote:It's also probably to do with the fact that Gilbert has been on 100% top form this year and Cancellara hasn't. All athletes have good and bad days or even seasons. Best example I can think of is Wiggins...sweet FA in in 2010 (one day at Giro excepted) to 3rd at Paris Nice, winning Dauphine, winning Nat Champs and having a good Vuelta (so far) in 2011.
An example which would no doubt would raise some eyebrows if he was brought up in Madrid instead of Maida Vale.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
The ace in Gilbert's sleeve is his fast finish - way quicker than any other strongman in the peleton........certainly in the absence of Valverde. I don't necessarily think that makes his the 'superior athlete' - he's just a great all-rounder. Canc has to blast the opposition away and solo to the line to win, whereas Gilbert has more options.
That all said, in terms of the original post, suggesting that Gilbert has done a better job of representing a jersey he didn't even win is a rather curious stance.0 -
SeadooXP wrote:What has Thor done to defend is rainbow jersey?
Hushovd honoured the Jersey at Le Tour. 2 stages and 7 days in yellow.
What he did on stage 13 was one of the most impressive things i've seen someone do in road racing (but i am only 20). Everything was done to perfection.
It's the only time this season he's been able to ride without the bounds of Vaughters' idiotic, unrealistic tactics.
As for Gilbert v Canc.? Meh. Who cares? Just enjoy it whilst they're still riding. Both are great riders that have animated this period of road cycling.0 -
pedro118118 wrote:The ace in Gilbert's sleeve is his fast finish - way quicker than any other strongman in the peloton........certainly in the absence of Valverde.
Interesting point. A good deal of Gilbert's wins this year were on terrain he would do battle with Valverde on next year. Add to that a more prominent race calendar for Sagan next year (you sometimes wonder whether they've been actively avoiding each other this year), and Gilbert could well lose some of his dominance next year0 -
FJS wrote:pedro118118 wrote:The ace in Gilbert's sleeve is his fast finish - way quicker than any other strongman in the peloton........certainly in the absence of Valverde.
Interesting point. A good deal of Gilbert's wins this year were on terrain he would do battle with Valverde on next year. Add to that a more prominent race calendar for Sagan next year (you sometimes wonder whether they've been actively avoiding each other this year), and Gilbert could well lose some of his dominance next year
Even if not, seasons like this come once a career.
He'll never win this much in a season again.0 -
EKIMIKE wrote:SeadooXP wrote:What has Thor done to defend is rainbow jersey?
Hushovd honoured the Jersey at Le Tour. 2 stages and 7 days in yellow.
What he did on stage 13 was one of the most impressive things i've seen someone do in road racing (but i am only 20). Everything was done to perfection.
It's the only time this season he's been able to ride without the bounds of Vaughters' idiotic, unrealistic tactics.
As for Gilbert v Canc.? Meh. Who cares? Just enjoy it whilst they're still riding. Both are great riders that have animated this period of road cycling.
That like the idiotic tactics that won Paris Roubaix then ?Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Moray Gub wrote:EKIMIKE wrote:SeadooXP wrote:What has Thor done to defend is rainbow jersey?
Hushovd honoured the Jersey at Le Tour. 2 stages and 7 days in yellow.
What he did on stage 13 was one of the most impressive things i've seen someone do in road racing (but i am only 20). Everything was done to perfection.
It's the only time this season he's been able to ride without the bounds of Vaughters' idiotic, unrealistic tactics.
As for Gilbert v Canc.? Meh. Who cares? Just enjoy it whilst they're still riding. Both are great riders that have animated this period of road cycling.
That like the idiotic tactics that won Paris Roubaix then ?
Do you honestly believe that Garmin's main tactic that day was for Johan Van Summeren to win from the break?"I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)0 -
No, but you have to adapt your tactics as the race unfolds and Garmin-Cervelo did that to perfection that day.0
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It's not often that Paris-Roubaix is won by luck alone.0
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What would've been a better tactic?
I thought they got it right. Obviously, it's not black and white epicness to see a team told not to ride, but that's the reality of the sport.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
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Thor has done a decent job - he was pretty unlucky during his classics campaign and was well-placed at Roubaix. If the race had come down to a sprint he would've likely bested Canc at the velodrome, but he was never going to assist the other big favourites in chasing down a teammate. He was in great shape at the Tour and was mightily impressive and he'll be a force at the Worlds again, no doubt.
Gilbert has had a stellar year - one he'll likely never repeat. His results this year have been a once-in-a-career event. The quandry for the other big guns is that, even as a marked man, Gilbert is still a fair bet, especially if a race finishes up hill, as it becomes a drag-race - it'll likely end up being a numbers game next year with riders/teams ganging up on him. But then again, didn't help Leopard Trek much this year at Liege!0 -
When has Hushovd ever had a really good classics campaign? It's always full of ifs and buts.
The talent is clearly there, but it's clear he has an exceptional talent to pick up stages in the Tour > a talent that makes the difference between winning and not.
I can't think of a Tour where he's had a bad one.
I find it hard to see Gilbert having that same kick next year. The more seasons of cycling I watch, the more I see these things lasting one or two seasons at best.
People thought Boonen was going to dominate the world for years in '05, and we'd all kissed the 2011 cobbles goodbye to Cancellara last year.0 -
inkyfingers wrote:Moray Gub wrote:EKIMIKE wrote:SeadooXP wrote:What has Thor done to defend is rainbow jersey?
Hushovd honoured the Jersey at Le Tour. 2 stages and 7 days in yellow.
What he did on stage 13 was one of the most impressive things i've seen someone do in road racing (but i am only 20). Everything was done to perfection.
It's the only time this season he's been able to ride without the bounds of Vaughters' idiotic, unrealistic tactics.
As for Gilbert v Canc.? Meh. Who cares? Just enjoy it whilst they're still riding. Both are great riders that have animated this period of road cycling.
That like the idiotic tactics that won Paris Roubaix then ?
Do you honestly believe that Garmin's main tactic that day was for Johan Van Summeren to win from the break?
Astute teams tactics will change as the race unfolds thats what hapened that day so to say Thor was somehow held back by idiotic tactics is plain wrong.Gasping - but somehow still alive !0 -
Was it at Flanders where the tactics were questionable. I remember Vaughters telling his riders to sit in and not race. Doing nothing seemed a bit weird under the circumstances. On second thoughts, it might have all been a part of his Paris-Roubaix master plan.0
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NNNNOOOOO - not the Flanders debate, AGAIN! :twisted:
Let's summarise, if you think Garmin's tactics were suspect at Flanders then you know nothing of bike racing.0 -
At least your post didn't sound arrogant. Glad we negated that potential hiccup. Phew.
That's arrogance and sarcasm covered. What's next.0 -
Luckao wrote:Was it at Flanders where the tactics were questionable. I remember Vaughters telling his riders to sit in and not race. Doing nothing seemed a bit weird under the circumstances. On second thoughts, it might have all been a part of his Paris-Roubaix master plan.
This almost panned out for Vaughters though didn't it, as the race almost came down down to a sprint - albeit amongst a select group. Just happened that Thor and Haussler didn't have the legs on the day. He learned his lesson that day and ensured he covered the break with a wildcard at Roubaix - and it worked. You need options in the Classics - especially Roubaix, where luck can play such a major part.
Personally, I don't see Gilbert winning Roubaix and this is likely the reason why he won't achieve a Monument Slam.0 -
We'll if you watched the 2010 World Road Race you would understand what Im saying, the fact that Gilbert should have won the race and at best, Thor should have been 2nd. Yes, I know thats not how it turned out, but I think Gilbert broke away to early (was is 7th or 8th breakaway of the race) and had plenty of power, but his timing was off and he came up short at the end. Was it his mistake? Yes. Has Thor done a good job defending his jersey? No. Sure, a couple stage wins at the tour is great, but thats not enough. He had a weak early season, and hasnt done anything since the tour.pedro118118 wrote:The ace in Gilbert's sleeve is his fast finish - way quicker than any other strongman in the peloton........certainly in the absence of Valverde. I don't necessarily think that makes his the 'superior athlete' - he's just a great all-rounder. Canc has to blast the opposition away and solo to the line to win, whereas Gilbert has more options.
That all said, in terms of the original post, suggesting that Gilbert has done a better job of representing a jersey he didn't even win is a rather curious stance.
Gilbert has a killer finish, enough watts left to destroy the best cyclists in the world.
And I think its entirely possible he will have another great year, remember he was 3rd ranked in the world last year, and currently sits 2nd behind Cadel.pedro118118 wrote:Gilbert has had a stellar year - one he'll likely never repeat. His results this year have been a once-in-a-career event. The quandry for the other big guns is that, even as a marked man, Gilbert is still a fair bet, especially if a race finishes up hill, as it becomes a drag-race - it'll likely end up being a numbers game next year with riders/teams ganging up on him. But then again, didn't help Leopard Trek much this year at Liege!
And speaking of Leopard Trek, I really hate the color scheme. Just horrible. I remember in 2009 when Andy won @ liege, when the team basically spoon fed him the win, but this year, despite the teams power, Gilbert was able to destroy Andy and Frank. It was a great moment in cycling history.0
