Advice needed, 'A story of an unhappy begginer'!!

gakko

I purchased a Planet X SL at the end of June. After getting used to road bikes it has ridden absolutely amazing!! Acceleration is second to none and I enjoyed every single ride. In 4 weeks I did about 200 miles so I was very content with my purchase.

Unfortunately, after walking out from a supermarket I unlocked my bike and rode for approximately 5 meters heard a cracking noise and saw that my rear derailleur mechanism snapped off, which resulted in causing damage to the rear seat post of the frame. The same day I informed local dealership in Bristol and was told to bring in the bike and after initial inspection I was informed that the hanger would have to be exchanged, and bike would be ready by Tuesday.

I was awaiting further information on Tuesday if my bike was ready to collect, unfortunately no news from local dealership. I rung them up and at that point I was informed that bike had damage to rear seatstay and they had to consult manufacturer regarding further steps and if this will be covered by my warranty policy on the bike.

He also informed me that I will hear back from him the same day, either by phone or e-mail, this has not happened. On Wendsday I received a phone call at 16.56 in which I was informed that my warranty policy will not apply, although I am able to purchase a new frame with a 50% discount as there is no way of proving if the damage sustained to the bike was not my fault.

I thought that I will not give in and just fork out another £220 for a new frame and decided to contact manufacturer directly, and obviously their response was that:

"We can only warrant a frame against defects in materials and manufacturing. We also guarantee that your bike will be new and free from mechanical defects when you receive it. Any problems or defects must be reported within 7 days of receiving the bike. We are unable to warrant any damage cause through lack of maintenance / accidental damage / misuse / vandalism / and crashes"

I strongly believe that my incident was not a result of any listed above. Apart from a seatstay rest of the frame is in immaculate condition. And if anything has to be reported within 7 days, why is there a 2 year warranty policy on the bike.

I found a company that refurbishes carbon bike frames and have been in contact with them, they think that frame has cosmetic damage rather than structural and quoted me approx. £100 for refurb, paint and P&P.

What are my options in this situation, would advice from trading standards help?
Looking forward to your opinions on this matter.

I am missing it dearly. AND this is a lesson for me to buy out bloody bike insurance... Lesson learned.

merak

I don't see how Planet or their dealer can legally separate the frame from the rest of the bike (assuming you bought a whole bike from them). If a part fails under warranty (again assuming that there was no operator error) and damages another part, then they must be liable for that.

So for me, the key question is, how did the failure occur? Which part failed due to poor workmanship or materials? Was it the rear mech? If so, what failed in the rear mech that caused the problem - what was the failure mode? Sounds to me like the rear mech cage ended up in the spokes. If the rear mech cage or hanger was bent on delivery and you didn't bend it then you have a case. If it was maladjusted, say by having incorrect adjustment of the limit screw, you probably have no case if you bought it on-line, because the reasonable expectation for an on-line sale is that the bike would be competently set up before you ride it. However, if the set up was done by your dealer, you might have a claim against the dealer.

By the way, if you bought your bike from a dealer, then your contract is with the dealer and you have legal rights which are in addition to any manufacturer warranty. If the bike was defective on sale, and the defect caused damage in 4 weeks they should be legally obliged to repair or replace the bike. Your problem will be proving that the defect was there when you bought it and it wasn't down to accident, misuse or operator error.

It's all down, in my view to whether the primary failure was present when you bought the bike and whether you can prove it.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (other than of the barrack room variety) so take what I say above with a hefty pinch of salt.

gakko

Thank you merak for your insight into this,

I certainly have not touched any of the mechanical parts of the bike nor did I crash, bend, or in any other way misused this bike. I think that the RD cage must have taken half spin with the spokes, and go across seatstays, I personally haven't exactly examined how serious is the damage. To further confuse me, if the hanger snapped and they are happy to exchange it at their cost, obviously damage to the frame is a direct result of the hanger failure would that not automatically qualify the frame to be exchanged at the same time?

I found an very old post on different forum where rider dropped something on his chain, it got caught in RD and snapp, nearly exactly the same scenario, seatstay damaged, frame back to producer and his got exchanged no problem.

I honestly think, why should I pay for something that was not a result of my own action.

Battle continues...

alfablue

In British law there is an automatic assumption that if an item fails within the first six months then the goods were faulty at time of purchase. The onus is upon the seller to prove otherwise.

The contract is with the seller, not the manufacturer.

The warranty is an irrelevant red herring, ignore it. Your rights under law are superior to this.

Will write more later.

jgsi

Well at least you have a local Planet x outlet to deal with.
In general, bike warranties can be murky areas to get resolved but in your case for a rear mech to get entangled into the spokes means something really amiss as by default the rear mech on complete slack is the furthest away from the spokes.
Keep at the shop for a cost free repair I would say .. and deny any possible wrong doing that someone actually gave your bike a good kicking whilst parked up.

CYCLESPORT1

It is possible that your bike was tampered with outside the supermarket, so thats not the fault of PlantX or the bike shop.
I would get them to fit a new hanger and adjust the gears - sorted

Monty Dog

Classic JRA (Just Riding Along): if bike shop owners got £1 for every JRA that came through the door, they'd be very rich.
Don't leave your bike unattended in public
Don't expect bike companies/shops to bear the consequences of your misfortune
Your bike is repairable

warpcow

CYCLESPORT1 wrote:

It is possible that your bike was tampered with outside the supermarket, so thats not the fault of PlantX or the bike shop.

^^This is a possibility. Derailleur hangers are a real pain when it comes to warrenty claims. Because they're a part that's pretty much expected to fail if necessary, proving it was not caused by some fault of the owner is hard. I've seen it happen on highend MTBs, with owners giving similar stories to the OP, and the manufacturers' responses were the same: crash-replacement discount.

If the dealer hasn't done it already, push them to send it back to PX to have it fully checked out. Then stick to your guns, keep repeating what happened and that you believe it to be a manufacturing fault with the hanger, and that you think they should prove otherwise (maybe someone who knows consumer rights could find a bit to help with this).

morstar

Just seconding other people really.
Your contract is with the seller rather than px and sale of goods act trumps any warranty.

Unfortunately, the situation you describe does lead me to think that something has happened to the bike whilst in the supermarket. Either malicious or accidental. A guy at our work bought a higher spec Focus this time last year and somebody cut through all his cables whilst it was parked for a couple of mins.
Anyhow, does the supermarket have cctv? May put your mind at rest to know if something did happen to it!
Worst case scenario, if it were vandalism, at least you target your anger in the right direction and get the police involved rather than getting into a frustrating burden of proof argument with the retailer.

tiny_pens

UK consumer rights state that an item sold should be:

Sold as described, fit for purpose and last a reasonable length of time.

Its the last point that would be pertinent here. What would a reasonable length of time be for a bicycle?

Probably a bad comparison but if you bought a TV and a fuse went you would be delighted if the shop selling replaced it for you. If the screen cracked at the same time you might be less happy. Again, probably chalk and cheese examples

to OP, I don't suppose you could have ridden over something (like a twig) that may have been caught up in the wheel?

MattC59

Sorry to hear that !!

If you don't have any luck with the warranty, all is not lost. Have a word with Darren at:
http://www.carboncyclerepairs.co.uk/index.html
He does repairs and alterations to carbon frames and wheels. He's a nice guy, and I took a wheel to him last week for repair. Some of the frames hamging in his workshop were in a right state, but he said they were all repairable. He does structural repairs as well as cosmetic repairs.

alfablue

It is quite possible that the mech hanger was made of putty, I had an early, unprovoked, spontaneous breakage of my SL Pro mech hanger (fortunately no damage sustained), and the lack of replacements available at P-X did suggest to me that they are a part in demand.

cougie

I thought the rear hanger was meant to break in cases like this ? So you just replace that for a few quid rather than writing off the frame itself ?

I doubt theres much damage to the frame itself. And sounds like someone has been messing round with your gears outside the shop. So its hardly Planet X's fault.

Thelittlesthobo

1) A rear mech hanger is designed to snap so it isnt anything to do with fit for purpose or design fault etc etc

2) A rear mech getting jammed etc isnt a design fault etc etc. It happens to many cyclists from time to time and can be attributed to a stiff chain link, a dirty chain, a bad gear change where the chain is crossed, a bit of debris in the mech or even the mech being badly adjusted due to cable stretch. Loads of issues that arent anything to do with warranty.

So they have sold you a bike that has a design that minimises the chance of major damage if your mech becomes jammed. BUT IT CAN STILL HAPPEN.

I have seen manny people get jammed mechs over the years and i am stunned to see some people try to gring through it. As soon as i realise i have jammed my mech i back off straight away. Maybe, just maybe the OP has been a little hamfisted and caused a serious amount of damage that could have been avoided.

Not a warranty issue and its got nothing to do with fit for purpose imo

Thelittlesthobo

I am also stunned to hear that a rear mech can damage/write off a frame. I would be surprised if it was just cosmetic. As suggested earlier, ask PX to have a look at it for you.

Sirius631

Gekko, just to be clear, was it the rear mech hanger on the frame that snapped, or was it the mechanism's pivot/attachment bolt that sheared? Either way, it takes something to go wrong in the drive train for the mech to be dragged into the spokes. What chainring and sprocket was the chain on? If you have the chain simultaneously on the large chainring and on the large sprocket, and the chain has been installed with an insufficient number of links, then the lack of chain capacity could twist the rear mech into the spokes.Firstly, it could be argued that you shouldn't ride with the chain in this sprocket/chainring combination anyway, as you are deflecting the chain across too great an angle, but I see several of my club mates doing so. Secondly, if the chain was too short to allow for this scenario then that is a fault of manufacture and is covered under the sale of goods act.

If you are getting nowhere with the shop, go see your local trading standards. It's their bread and butter to remind shops about the meaning of the sale of goods act. Even if the shop caves in and replaces the bike as a good will gesture without going to court or admitting liability, you would have done other customers a good turn.

BTW. The amount of riding that you have done would not have resulted in any mechanical wear that could reasonably be seen as being the cause of this incident.

Good luck.

Sirius631

Thelittlesthobo wrote:

I am also stunned to hear that a rear mech can damage/write off a frame. I would be surprised if it was just cosmetic. As suggested earlier, ask PX to have a look at it for you.

Trading Standards first. PX have an interest in telling you that it's a write-off and that it's your fault.

cougie

I cant actually see that the dealer has said the frame is a write off ? It all sounds just for cosmetic purposes really. And I dont see that Trading Standards need to get involved.

Would you be able to get a new car because your windscreen cracked ?

Thelittlesthobo

I honestly cant see how this can be attributed to a manufacturing defect or anything to do with the setup.

The bike has functioned correctly. A jammed rear mech is something that happens and can be a host of things as i said above.

Trading standards need something to say to the shop.

"Hello bike shop, this bike seems to have broken"
"Yes trading standards, it is broken because the rear mech hit the frame"
"Is it normal for a mech to hit a frame"
"Well if one a number of things happens then yes it does"
"Would it cause so much damage to the frame normally"
"No it wouldnt, normally the rider would stop as the hanger is designed to just break off to limit further damage"
"Ohhh, so if the rider doesnt stop then they may have caused the damage themselves"
"Maybe"


Just a final point. I keep my bikes in my garage. My kids are very adept at leaning their bikes against mine. I once found a bent rear mech hanger due to this. Who is to say that someone didnt lean their bike against yours and bend the mech hanger before you rode off.

MrChuck

gakko wrote:

I honestly think, why should I pay for something that was not a result of my own action.

Battle continues...

By the same token though, why should Planet X pay for something that's not a result of their actions?

Not saying that's the case, but the mech can end up in the spokes, either through being badly set up or through having something interfere with it. As others have pointed out, the hanger did the job it was designed for and snapped. Any resulting damage to the frame isn't going to be covered by warranty.

How well a bike works is very heavily dependent on how it's set up, which is something the manufacturer doesn't really have any control over (but the dealer does). On top of that sometimes things just happen, sticks get jammed in etc. as people suggested. So things can go wrong without there being any grounds for a warranty.

I'd say your best bet is to chase it up with the dealer rather than Planet X, as IF anyone is at fault it's more likely to be them since they'll have set the bike up.

stratblue

Slightly OT but my friend dropped and totally smashed his just out of the box iPhone, the Genius guy at the shop said 'You've obviously had a bit of bad luck, here's a new one.' Mind you, Apple can easily afford it..

gakko

Sirius631 wrote:

Gekko, just to be clear, was it the rear mech hanger on the frame that snapped, or was it the mechanism's pivot/attachment bolt that sheared?

Seemed to me that it was a hanger that has snapped and RD cage caused damage

It looks to me like that no one will take responsibility for damage/ failure/ accident that happened and I'll have to pick up the pieces.
And as mentioned above, is the damage to the frame so deep and considerable that the only solution is to swap for a new frame?

and just to clarify if hanger is designed to snap under certain pressure would that not suggest that this should have happened before or at the level that it could not get caught into spokes?

MattC59 wrote:

If you don't have any luck with the warranty, all is not lost. Have a word with Darren

Thats the guy I spoke to and who quoted approx £100 all inclusive for the work to the bike, so there is a cheaper and more bearable solution to my incident, which I am thankfull for.

One unhappy cyclist, but we all learn on our mistakes.

merak

gakko wrote:

and just to clarify if hanger is designed to snap under certain pressure would that not suggest that this should have happened before or at the level that it could not get caught into spokes?

No, unfortunately it could have snapped because the cage got into the spokes. Hope all works out reasonably well for you.

gakko

Just to clarify,

I followed advice given by alfablue, and Planet X got in touch with me, they have arranged to pick up frame Bristol and take it for inspection to their headquarters, after 4 days I was given a reply that the frame will be exchanged for new one at no extra cost, and delivered to my home address.

I can not praise customer service at Planet-X well enough, second to none.

MaxwellBygraves

gakko wrote:

Just to clarify,

I followed advice given by alfablue, and Planet X got in touch with me, they have arranged to pick up frame Bristol and take it for inspection to their headquarters, after 4 days I was given a reply that the frame will be exchanged for new one at no extra cost, and delivered to my home address.

I can not praise customer service at Planet-X well enough, second to none.

Happy ending, well done Planet X now enjoy your riding!

EV!lution

My rear mech snapped off my specialized tarmac, Specialized will not replace the frame either because its not there fault, But they have put a claim in to shimano to pay for it to be fixed as it was there part that broke my rear wheel and cracked my chainstay,

Im still waitning to hear from them though

bobgfish

If you brought the bike form a dealer it is the dealer who should sort it out. It doesn't matter what is wrong but the dealer should sort regardless of who made what part. If it was caused by crash damage then obviosuly warranty rules do not apply. Specialized have been good to me and even replaced frames outside of warranty. I had two the same and one failed inside warranty and the other fialed in the same place outside warranty.