Osteopathy

merciano

I'm looking to retrain and one option I'm thinking of is Osteopathy. I have a little bit of relevant experience, fancy the chance of working for myself and having a practical skill - a bit like a trade but I'm not sure my knees are up to being a bricklayer - and just about have the finances to see me through 5 years part time study. I've also had positive experiences of being treated - sorted my back out one time when I walked in after a week of agony and walked out stood up straight and in no pain at all.

Just seeking a bit of collective experience really. Doing internet searches there is a definite school of thought that it is quackery or at least that it's fairly limited in it's effects. I don't want to be making a massive commitment to something that maybe my perception of is not that of the majority. I've been to the college I'd be studying at, observed a treatment etc but there's still that nagging doubt - would I be doing 5 years to learn to be the equivalent of a crystal healer - with respect to any crystal healers !

Career wise I'm at a bit of a low ebb so much not to lose having been out of the full time job market for years being a p/t house houseband and part time working with kids.

kja

Dunno if it's any use but this is my limited experience. I dislocated my shoulder several times and tore my shoulder blade when I was in the Army. I still suffer from aches and a sore neck. Every now and then it really flares up and pretty much immobilises me and for a few days I have to take codeine which barely takes the edge of the pain.

Usually I book myself into the physio. However my wife swears by the osteopath; we have three children and after each birth she went to the osteopath for several sessions. Last time my shoulder flared up she sent me to the osteopath instead of the physio. When I went in I could hardly walk, and couldn't turn my neck at all. Being used to physios who usually are quite agressive in their massaage and manipulation and then prescribe exercise, I was suprised at how gentle the manipulation was and very suprised when various parts of my body all clicked at the same time! My pain that time was reduced to a level where I didn't need painkillers and after a further visit I was in less pain than I've been for about 5 years.

I was extremely skeptical, but was in such a state I was willing to try anything. I was almost willing it not to work just to prove that it was quackery, so there's no way it was mind power or a placebo effect. Also, being a Christian, I wouldn't go for any sort of treatment where I thought there might be some sort of 'spiritual' element, and I don't think that's how osteopaths view their treatment at all. So basically osteopathy gets a thumbs up from me!

cooldad

The main idea behind osteopathy is that the structure and function of your body are closely linked. This means that any problems or pain associated with the structure of your body could also affect your internal organs.

Therefore, if problems with the structure of your body are corrected, it will ease pain on the outside of your body and help to treat any illness inside your body.

Quakery.
And 'crystal healers' deserve no respect whatsoever.
Maybe look at physiotherapy - similar training period and it actually works.

cooldad

@KJA - massage and manipulation can help with muscular pain, but the idea that it can treat illness is nonsensical and dangerous. IMHO.

merciano

Interested if that is based on a google search or personal experience cooldad. Only because while I'm aware there is some stuff about osteopathy on the web that suggests there is a strong whiff of bull about it as you say - having been treated by two of them and talked to a few it hasn't come across like that. I've spoken to some who disown the more esoteric elements (their description) entirely and students who say there is a bit of that in the course but most of them don't believe in it and ignore it.

I'm not really interested in physiotherapy - too broad a curriculum and aimed too much at producing NHS staff - having worked for the NHS in the past I'm not keen to go back. More interested in hands on manipulation type stuff which the basic physio degree is very light on and which osteopaths do a lot of. I've seen a few physios in the past and never really come away impressed - I've come away from an osteo and a guy who does osteo type manipulations and been very impressed but admittedly that was for back problems - I couldn't comment about how effective they'd be with other stuff hence looking for personal experiences good or bad.

cooldad

Personal experience or anecdotal evidence is very unreliable. There is no scientific evidence that osteopathy works, and no scientific basis for it's beliefs. (With the proviso that, in the USA at least, a degree in osteopathy is in fact a medical degree with the addition of courses in osteopathy and a lot of practitioners do eschew the more esoteric elements.)

I have no personal experience - I avoid 'alternative medicine' on the precept that if it worked, it would simply be medicine.

I have however had a long interest in alternative medicine, mainly on the basis of trying to prevent the harm snake oil can cause.

Osteopathy does have benefits, there is little doubt that it can help the area treated - muscular issues. But the idea that it can cure illness (internal medicine) is wrong, and there are a number of associated 'disciplines' such as cranial osteopathy (manipulation of the skull bones) which are patently nonsense. These bones are fully fused by about 18 months.

So it is not all rubbish, but does have some decidedly dodgy issues.

cooldad

As long as you don't become a crystal healer though.

merciano

Yes I wouldn't necessarily disagree with much of what you say - though to be fair the last two guys I spoke to (osteo and final year student osteo) both agreed with you re. cranial osteopathy.

Looking more for personal experiences though - does it work as a manual physical therapy?

paul.skibum

I went to a chiropractor quite a bit when I had a bad back - the idea was similar (I guess) in that much of the problems people have with their limbs etc stem from poor spinal alignment,

I dont know much about osteopaths - I know my mum used to see one all the time with bad back/weak shoulder issues and he helped her a lot albeit there is no guarantee she wouldnt have benefited from pure physio or whatever.

kja

cooldad wrote:

Personal experience or anecdotal evidence is very unreliable. There is no scientific evidence that osteopathy works, and no scientific basis for it's beliefs.
.

Quite apart from whether osteopathy works or not, that is a very unscientific and potentially embarrasing stance to take about any subject. Five years ago there was no scientific evidence that the human appendix served any purpose, we now know that it's vital to the development of the immune system in infants. 10 years ago scientific evidence suggested that stomach ulcers were caused by stress, we now know that they're caused by a virus. 70 years ago scientific evidence suggested atoms were the smallest things possible. 200 years ago medical doctors scoffed when some crazy nurses suggested that keeping hospitals clean might prevent disease. 1000 years ago scientists thought the world was flat.

The point I'm making is that just because humanity can't currently find a scientific explanation for something, it doesn't mean we never will, nor that something can't or doesn't work. It is nonsensical and dangerous to assert that something is 'wrong' just because you don't understand it or don't want it to be right. Furthermore whether or not some scientists consider personal experience or anecdotal evidence unreliable, the fact is that in our post post modern society, most people consider personal experience very carefully when making decisions, a point borne out by this very thread.

cooldad

Point taken, but weighing up anecdotal against scientific, I know which is the most compelling.
Using your argument, crystal healing, faith healing and ghostbusters are all valid.
You have to draw the line somewhere.

graeme_s-2

paul.skibum wrote:

I dont know much about osteopaths - I know my mum used to see one all the time with bad back/weak shoulder issues and he helped her a lot albeit there is no guarantee she wouldnt have benefited from pure physio or whatever.

My wife's a physio (so vested interest I guess), and that's been one of her observations about chiropractors and osteopaths. People often say "I see my chiropractor once a month/year and they sort me out", generally speaking you shouldn't need to keep going back if you resolve the cause of the problem. My wife's observation is that chiropractors and osteopaths seem to treat the symptoms rather than the actual cause.

The primary difference between physiotherapy and osteopaths/chiropractors seems to me to be that physiotherapy at least attempts to take an evidence based practice approach, and osteopaths/chiropractors don't.

Plenty of physios work exclusively in private practice treating sports injuries and the like. I saw one myself when I had ITB syndrome recently with excellent results.

Anonymous

I never realised Osteopaths were chiropractor-style quacks - I thought they were "proper" bone doctors :oops:

Daz555

Oesteopathy/chiropractory is pure quakery - certainly when it comes to some of their claims for healing disease.

I have been to both over the years. They both helped but no more than a decent sports physio or even deep massage to be honest.

I stick to sports injury specialists for my aches and pains these days as 99% of my problems are caused by my sad devotion to football which at nearly 40 I should jack in, but I just can't.

KitsuneAndy

From:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 043757.ece

"WHAT CAN IT OFFER THAT CONVENTIONAL MEDICINE CAN NOT? One study published in the reputable New England Journal of Medicine concluded that osteopathy was just as good as conventional treatment for low back pain. However, the patients who received osteopathy took fewer non- steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, which can cause side-effects in some people"

One of my friends is an Osteopath, he doesn't susbscribe to the ability of it to cure all sorts of illnesses. But he does think it can help with back/joint injuries. And the few times I've hurt myself and gotten some treatment from him, it definitely has helped.

graeme_s-2

KitsuneAndy wrote:

From:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 043757.ece

"WHAT CAN IT OFFER THAT CONVENTIONAL MEDICINE CAN NOT? One study published in the reputable New England Journal of Medicine concluded that osteopathy was just as good as conventional treatment for low back pain. However, the patients who received osteopathy took fewer non- steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, which can cause side-effects in some people"

One of my friends is an Osteopath, he doesn't susbscribe to the ability of it to cure all sorts of illnesses. But he does think it can help with back/joint injuries. And the few times I've hurt myself and gotten some treatment from him, it definitely has helped.

I don't think anybody is suggesting that Osteopathy is no good to anybody. The problem is that some of it works, and some of it doesn't, but as a group Osteopaths and Chiropractors don't apply much in the way of scientific method to distinguish between the two.

Anonymous

I was talking to some guy who was "a trained chiropractor" about how my two outermost fingers on my left hand still hurt after dislocating them months ago by ripping them out of their socket on a dry ski slope.

He suggested that maybe the fingers weren't the route of the problem, maybe it was m posture, or even my feet - had I broken any toes at all? :roll:

graeme_s-2

I was at a party with a few physio's a year or so back, and one of them was telling me that she had recently given her father a lift to a chiropractor that he had been seeing for some time. While she watched, the chiropractor starting moving his hand around 6 inches above her father's back while clicking his fingers!

WisePranker

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I never realised Osteopaths were chiropractor-style quacks - I thought they were "proper" bone doctors :oops:

They're up there with those other medical miracle workers......homeopaths!

It's all quackery IMO.

merciano

It certainly wasn't quackery when I walked in unable to stand up straight and walked out with my back 99.9% fine BUT I must admit to being sceptical about some of the other stuff. Without the other stuff though I suppose they are basically the same as massage therapists that have gone on and trained in manual therapy - which there is nothing wrong with at all but I suppose it lacks the same earning power.

moster

I can't comment on Oesteopaths but I've been going to a Chiropractor for a few months due a neck problem and also as I was getting a niggle in my lower back. I have to say that she has helped me a huge amount.

TBH some of the written info she gave me went on about how it could help cure other illness or conditions but to be honest I skimmed over that as 1. Thats not why I was going but mainly 2. I just dont buy it - to be fair to her she hasn't made a big deal about any of this stuff anyway.

She has given me some good advice on diet/exercise and help with posture etc too and have to say that I feel stronger & fitter than I have for years so from a mechnical point of view it has helped (not that I'm saying physio wouldn't have).

There was this comment earlier "...you shouldn't need to keep going back if you resolve the cause of the problem" - unfortunately sometimes the cause of the problems can be the unnatural things we expect our bodies to do that they weren't designed for - sitting all day staring at a computer screen, operating a mouse all day or with a phone clamped under your chin/neck while you type, long journeys in the car etc etc

IME chiropractic has worked but I'm sure there are some quacks that'll claim to cure cancer etc etc which is obviously BS

Of course maybe I've just bought into the hype....anyway I'm away to buy an Orange 5 as I hear that they are the best thing since that snake oil I bought :twisted:

Structurallysound

@ merciano, I have just retrained as an osteopath so thought i could leave a few points which may be helpful.

Firstly, while there is some quackery associated with osteopathy, the vast majority deal purely with musculoskeletal pain. Same goes for chiropractic although because there is a vocal faction within both professions, we are tarred by the same brush. Quackery in osteopathy tends to be more associated with the cranial osteopaths, but is by no means confined there.

While osteopathy, chiropractic and physiotherapy are distinct professions with their own histories, essentially they do the same thing. They are all manual therapies that work with the body's inherent capacity to heal itself and to provide advice to the patient to help them return to normal daily activity and prevent recurrence. The divisions between them are somewhat historic, but a contemporary understanding leads many to believe that they are much the same, to the extent that some believe that one day they may become one and be known as manual therapists.

Broadly speaking, it could be said that chiropractors tend to be more business orientated than osteopaths, tending to see more patients in less time, so if you want to get rich, be a chiropractor. Physiotherapy tends to be more respected by the medical profession and more likely to be available through the NHS. Physios also seem to charge more than osteopaths.

In osteopathy there is no career structure once you have qualified, you either work within someone else's clinic and pay a proportion of your fee (roughly 50%) to the owner, or set a practice up yourself. Jobs are few and competition is intense, so the hard work starts after the training has come to an end.

That said, I have found it a hugely rewarding career choice so far. I cannot explain how it feels to be told by a patient how you have helped them live a life again they no longer though possible. The training is intense and you are not going to get rich from it, but if I had to do it all again, I'd probably do physiotherapy.