Trains

rick_chasey

There are 3 things that really really irritate me.

#1. Banks not letting me access my money for security reasons

#2 - Student Loans Company.

#3 - Trains.

An 8% hike on already the most expensive and poorest quality train service in Western Europe?

Crazy. It takes the p1ss.

I don't travel that often but recently I've had to fork out £35 for a round trip that takes less than 2hrs combined and had to stand the past 4 times I've used the train, and it didn't turn up on time or arrive on time.

Now they want 3% more over a generous estimation of inflation?

*sigh* Now, to make myself a coff....oh.

pb21

Just imagine how bad, expensive and inefficient they would be if they hadn’t been privatised!

Proof if any was needed of the benefits of neoliberalism.

markos1963

pb21 wrote:

Just imagine how bad, expensive and inefficient they would be if they hadn’t been privatised!

Proof if any was needed of the benefits of neoliberalism.

Yes privatisation has been a complete success financially, you the tax payer now gives more than five times the subsidy than when it was BR!!!

markos1963

Rick Chasey wrote:

Now they want 3% more over a generous estimation of inflation?

It's the Government that want it not the train companies, they don't see a penny of the extra 3%

redddraggon

markos1963 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Now they want 3% more over a generous estimation of inflation?

It's the Government that want it not the train companies, they don't see a penny of the extra 3%

For "improvements"?

rick_chasey

markos1963 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Now they want 3% more over a generous estimation of inflation?

It's the Government that want it not the train companies, they don't see a penny of the extra 3%

I don't care who it is. I never said I did.

redddraggon

Without a railcard trainfares are quite a ripoff IMO. Once I can't have a 16-25 railcard anymore I'll likely use the train as a last resort.

At the moment with a railcard on the trains I mainly use, the cost is very similar to but far slower than using the car. At full price it works out cheaper and is far faster to use a car.

unixnerd

The sleeper from Aviemore to London is about 140 quid. but if you know the right website and book it far enough in advance it's 29.99. Why? What on earth is the logic behind that.

The service in Scotland is pretty good, but the prices are daft. It's often the case that a return ticket is only 2 quid more than a single. If I'm going to Glasgow or Edinburgh from the Highlands I'd far rather take the train, but even with the high cost of petrol it can often be cheaper to drive.

lifeform

Trains are my rant of choice

Hove to London Bridge in the mornings.

Only two trains - one at 6.30, another at 7 - both full to the brim by the time it clears Brighton area, and standing room only from mid-Sussex onwards.

An hour and 15 minutes of filthy crowded torture masquerading as a service - god knows how the regular commuters put up with it. Once a week is more than enough for me.

The privilege of which will cost you £43.70 return - which is roughly 50p a mile - for a day return.

Compared to Southern, some of the other operators are actually quite good - least they bother cleaning the things, putting sufficient carriages on them, charging less than 50p a mile.

The ultimate kick in the teeth is on the way home when, at East Croydon, the Guard/Driver announces "This train is now fast to Brighton"... No Southern, 45 miles in 50 minutes is not 'fast', it's merely less slow

verylonglegs

Rick Chasey wrote:

There are 3 things that really really irritate me.

#1. Banks not letting me access my money for security reasons

Urgh, I've got some cash in an internet savings account that I've forgotten most of my security data too, really not looking forward to trying to sort that one out.

As for trains, I can work around the scandalous fares as I'm a leisure user rather than commuter so can book in advance and get good deals. My gripe is the damn engineering works, they never end...I don't recall the last time I could get a London to Norwich journey at the end of a weekend without a frickin bus transfer.

MaxwellBygraves

Yeah it is crazy. Markos I seem to recall you are a train driver - in your opinion, how can we bring our rail service into line with those on the continent?

Le Commentateur

They just interviewed a commuter on BBC News.

He apparently travels to London from Somerset every day of the working week and doesn't like the price hike.

The tame interviewer didn't bother asking the obvious follow up questions (has he thought of trying to get a job closer to home or move nearer to work), but preferred to milk soundbites about how unfair it was that the prices go up again.

Bozman

Thank god that i get rail travel free(for life)!

anto164

Rick Chasey wrote:

There are 3 things that really really irritate me.

#1. Banks not letting me access my money for security reasons

#2 - Student Loans Company.

#3 - Trains.

I whole heartedly agree on the student loans.

I've been paying £80 per month out of my salary to go towards my loan. Get my statement a few weeks back and i've apparently paid nothing. Great. And with the changes at work means i'm still waiting a p60 and a couple of payslips, i can't reference anything to know the quantity of payments for last year.

Jez mon

Le Commentateur wrote:

They just interviewed a commuter on BBC News.

He apparently travels to London from Somerset every day of the working week and doesn't like the price hike.

The tame interviewer didn't bother asking the obvious follow up questions (has he thought of trying to get a job closer to home or move nearer to work), but preferred to milk soundbites about how unfair it was that the prices go up again.

Two possible reasons

a) The housing market is a pile of **** right now
b) The job market is a pile of **** right now

I'm guessing he made the decision to either move to the countryside or take a job in the city, on the grounds that travel prices would be reasonable.

The continual price hikes are astronomical...depending on what time I travel, if I book on the day with no rail card, it would cost £100 quid single to travel from Loughborough to Twyford (uni to home trip)

Or I can fly to see my brother out who lives slightly further away (in Dubai) for £500.

And on the plane, I get comfy seats, free food and drink.

Of course, if I book in advance, and travel at quiet times the fare does come down somewhat. But that's not really the point, public transport is meant to be convenient surely.

MountainMonster

I pay 1000 euros a year here for a train pass, which lets me travel for free anywhere. Trains are always very clean, always enough places, the people are friendly, and just in general better. a 3 hour train journey costs normally 50 euros.

morstar

Hmmmm, now it might just be me, or maybe I've been lucky. 20 years ago when I was a student, I reckon I had a horror story for just about 50% of the regular train journeys I used to take.

However, that was 20 years ago. Between 2005 and 2008 I used Virgin regularly between either Wigan and Warrington or Chorley and Warrington (mixing up riding and rail). Over those three years I probably averaged 4 train trips per week and I found it a generally pleasureable experience. Only had one nightmare trip which is a far better average than my driving average between Chorley and Warrington.

Cost wise, it was always only marginal gains either way. In terms of petrol only, it was expensive, but building in only modest car running costs and the costs were about even car vs rail. However, I did arrive at work relaxed having had the best part of an hour reading or working rather than effin' and jeffin' behind the wheel of a car.

Prices have gone up a bit since 2008 but petrol has risen by about 40% in that time too.

Not saying we're getting great value from rail but my most recent experience was generally positive. Still use the trains into Manchester which is a very punctual service but does suffer from crowding.

Chad_c_Mulligan

anto164 wrote:

I've been paying £80 per month out of my salary to go towards my loan. Get my statement a few weeks back and i've apparently paid nothing.

They always seem to be at least a full year behind and when you speak to them they can never give an accurate indication of how much you actually owe. At least the interest rate being charged is incredibly low and has been for a few years.

My concern is that in two years time when I pay mine off I'll end up over paying and having to get money back.

markos1963

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Yeah it is crazy. Markos I seem to recall you are a train driver - in your opinion, how can we bring our rail service into line with those on the continent?

Renationalise the railways, that way all the middle men who are creaming off a profit at the expense of the customer can be cut out.
For instance the Train leasing companies, they charge the TOCS inflated lease charges on knackered 40yo rolling stock. How about £1000 a day for a two car deisel unit made in 1988 and the operator has to pay for ALL the maintanance on it. Back in BR days that train was made using tax payers money of course but once it was built there was no charge to use it apart from running costs. The customer now has to pay that £1k a day now on top of the running costs as well as providing a profit to the TOC.
BR generated a lot of it's own revenue back then which has disappeared, rent from it's land, the ferries it ran, hotels and shops as well as building trains for other countries. Most of that has gone now and you guys are having to pay for it.
I really sympathise with my passengers, I can't believe they put up with the conditions and cost( I certainly wouldn't)

rick_chasey

Bozman wrote:

Thank god that i get rail travel free(for life)!

That must be worth tens of thousands of pounds.

El Gordo

Rick Chasey wrote:

Bozman wrote:

Thank god that i get rail travel free(for life)!

That must be worth tens of thousands of pounds.

Or more, if he was canny and lived on the Aviemore to London sleeper...

rick_chasey

Agreed to go with the girlfriend up to Doncaster to see her parents in a couple of weekends time.

From Kings cross - it'll coss me a minimum of £75!!!!! and that's off peak.

£75 for two 2 hr journeys? Edit: apparently it's only 90 odd minutes. So it's £25 an hour.

To go after work at a reasonable hour - £135...

And i'm 'booking in advance'. (when was booking not in advance?)

Totally ridiculous.

It's getting close to being a comparable price to hiring a car.

Edit: Correction, it's £135 for an off peak return on any train.

For an any time return it's £180.


Trains make me angry.

cycologist

unixnerd wrote:

The sleeper from Aviemore to London is about 140 quid. but if you know the right website and book it far enough in advance it's 29.99..

What is the "right website" ?

My daughter has moved from Sheffield to York which will now mean it's a bit toooo far to cycle in a day (140 miles rather than 80) I can travel off peak and can plan ahead sufficiently to take advantage of discounts.....all I need is advice on the best way to do this.

Redhog14

two suggestions regarding the railways:-

1 - who is actually in charge? if you have problems one lot always blame the other and you get passed around quicker than the train ever could. They should appoint and name regional train directors, pay good money to attract proper management talent and get on with improving them bit by bit. The whole organisation is faceless and aimless.

2 - sort out the price structure - you don't get any real benefit from buying an annual ticket as most people have at least 5 -6 weeks holiday each year and the annual discount only amounts to 1 months travel. Surely it would help their cashflow and investment plans if they had the money in the bank from commuters.

and one demand:
stop the ticket collectors/guards pretending they work for an airline, the facile announcements they make these days do my head in! :x

SmellTheGlove

"This train will shortly be arriving into [station]"

Dear train operating company
although you persist in making it, the announcement reproduced above which I hear repeated dozens of times every year is not in English. I realise you may be a foreign multinational, but that's no reason to have a non-native speaker tea-boy write inane scripts in some perverted version of Globish to be parrotted by adequately educated local staff who are capable of thinking for themselves and making announcements that don't make you appear like a ignorant ar$ehat. You still would be an ignorant ar$ehat, but at least, passengers would not feel patronised by your centrally-generated gibberish.
Yours etc...

Now my DM-style rant is over I'll echo an earlier point about the endless sub-contracting and consulting. The risk-averseness in the rail industry borders on the infantile. The bottomless chain of outsourcing is one of the main contributors to the absurd costs run up by even the smallest railway project. I only worked in the industry ("funnily" enough as a consultant) for a year or so but the rake-offs that accumulated at every link were mind-boggling, until finally you arrived at some level where there was enough desperation or blindness that a company would actually agree to take on the work. Get rid of all the bloody middlemen and there's a chance that things might improve.

SmellTheGlove

xx double post xx

pedylan

Price structures are downright byzantine never mind confusing. How does it really benefit us UK rail consumers? You can get to London from York for £10 one way but equally you could pay £80 if you travel at peak times and don't book in advance.

I travel in Europe a bit. You can buy tickets for journeys in advance and they are often open tickets, valid for a month at any time of day and the price is fixed. Absolutely straightforward.

Another point is the value. I saw an interesting graphic which showed the UK rail map drawn as if you were paying French rail prices. So the Edinburgh to London ticket took you to an imaginary London that was nearly in Paris na dthe London to Aberdeen took you to an Aberdeen that was in orkney. ie the cost per mile in Britain was about half as much more as in France.

What's to like about our model?

inkyfingers

I commuted to London from Kent every day for 6 months, even with a season ticket it was ridiculously expensive and that was nearly 3 years ago and prices have gone up considerably since then. You really do need to be earning a massive amount more to make it worth travelling to London to work now, if I was still in that job i'm not sure i'd bother anymore, would probably have more disposable income if I'd have got a job in McDonalds down the road. That's without getting into the ridiculously poor reliability levels and overdrowding. Funnily enough I was never lucky enough to have to cuddle up to any attractive women on the train, it was always overweight, sweaty men on their crackberrys ringing in your ears.

I use the train for work sometimes but only usually to go to meetings in London where it's not practical to drive. I always consider using the train for other journeys, but it's hardly ever financially viable, particularly as I often travel with somebody else from the office so we'd have to buy two tickets on the train. Unless they can reduce train fares business users like me will continue to clog up the roads - not from choice but from necessity.

inkyfingers

Should also add that not all european railways are a panacea either. Have had massively painful journeys on Belgian and German railways before, both in travelling and in trying to book tickets. You'd think i'd have an advantage in that I speak some Dutch but even if Flanders that doesn't always help.

rick_chasey

inkyfingers wrote:

Should also add that not all european railways are a panacea either. Have had massively painful journeys on Belgian and German railways before, both in travelling and in trying to book tickets. You'd think i'd have an advantage in that I speak some Dutch but even if Flanders that doesn't always help.

Depends what accent you have...

Even if there is the odd bad train journey, at least it's not mind bogglingly expensive.

I still can't get my head around this trip to Doncaster.

I'm seriously considering not going because it's so expensive. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be priced out of a journey within the UK. It's not like I'm a poor student either.

inkyfingers

Rick Chasey wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

Should also add that not all european railways are a panacea either. Have had massively painful journeys on Belgian and German railways before, both in travelling and in trying to book tickets. You'd think i'd have an advantage in that I speak some Dutch but even if Flanders that doesn't always help.

Depends what accent you have...

Even if there is the odd bad train journey, at least it's not mind bogglingly expensive.

I still can't get my head around this trip to Doncaster.

I'm seriously considering not going because it's so expensive. I never thought I'd see the day I'd be priced out of a journey within the UK. It's not like I'm a poor student either.

My accent is faultless, I base it on the two dutch coppers from the Harry Enfields show

True what you say about costs though, travel is much more reasonable over there, even when you take the recently poor Euro-Sterling exchange rates. When I was over there earlier this year I took my Mrs on a crazy train based historical tour of flanders starting and finishing in Gent and visiting about 4 different places on route and it was less than £20, afraid to think what it would of cost to do that sort of trip in the UK.