A month on still thinkin' what TdF could have been?
RideOnTime
Posts: 4,712
Evans a worthy winner but what could have been? What might have been if Brad Wiggins hadn't ended his TdF in hospital? With no obvious winner throughout and Brad’s performance until his crash it makes you think what could have been. Was this the first truly clean race? Was this the best coverage and presentation of a TdF on British TV? Who will emerge as a leading light for next year?
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RideOnTime wrote:Evans a worthy winner but what could have been? What might have been if Brad Wiggins hadn't ended his TdF in hospital? With no obvious winner throughout and Brad’s performance until his crash it makes you think what could have been.
Don't think he would have made the podium.RideOnTime wrote:Was this the first truly clean race?
Doubt it. Anyway, there was a positive - Kolbnev.RideOnTime wrote:Who will emerge as a leading light for next year?
Contador. He won't get banned and is the best GT rider of his generation, with the added incentive of something to prove. Though not so many high mountains next year so apart from the usual suspects we may see someone French go closer...I was only joking when I said
by rights you should be bludgeoned in your bed0 -
With Cadel in that form it was never gonna happen ... Too many little digs (from a good few either trying to attack or chasing) to upset the rhythm ... Even Bertie couldn't cope in the end ...
I reckon Brad would have finished 3rd, but even with his TT 'skills' (in the group of 5 who only ever win if Martin and Fab don't show up) I doubt he would have caught AS for 2nd with the previous days numbing the legs ...
Sadly I had to watch Brad's demise on ITV4 as was at the in-laws ... Shame because I could have done with a good laugh at Harmon's reaction ...
If Brad can pull a Voeckler then I'll listen, until then he's just another waste of Government funds who is after a further paycheck ...0 -
Oh well maybe he can try for a few stage wins next year when he is not too busy leading out Cav for a sprint finish!
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well Contador finished fifth and that was racing on one leg for half the race and with a very hard Giro in his legs as well. If he just goes for the tour next year I can't see anyone beating him0
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As Albus Dumbledore once, very wisely, said:
It does not do to dwell on the past Harry.0 -
RichN95 wrote:sherer wrote:If he just goes for the tour next year I can't see anyone beating him
The CAS can beat him.
Floyd is doing his best as well...."If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."
PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills0 -
RideOnTime wrote:Evans a worthy winner but what could have been? What might have been if Brad Wiggins hadn't ended his TdF in hospital? With no obvious winner throughout and Brad’s performance until his crash it makes you think what could have been.
Same outcome, No disrespect to Wiggo, he's a decent enough rider, but he just isn't TdF GC material, in fact, we will see him in the Vuelta probably not even podium, so the old 'Brad could win the Tour' i don't think so, and if he did it would be the most boring tour of all time, watching a middle aged balding man chugg up hills at his 'own pace'. He lacks an attack, and he lacks some serious style to be a good contender, Cadel lacks a bit of style, but the boy can fight.
I think the tour was good, had a bit of everything, certainly cant complain after recent tours. Cadel won, wiggo crashed, Schlecks lack tactical awareness, Andy will be the forever 'maybe next year' man, who know's if Contador would have won, minus the crash and the Giro, yes, probably, He will win it next year (after a backdated ban thanks to over 12 months of dicking about by CAS etc) he has something to prove, and as stated earlier, doped or not the natural tallent he has is way beyond most of the other contenders. Quite liked the lack of Andy Bertie wheel sucking monotone mountain stages this year to be honest.0 -
The TV coverage for me wasn't up to the usual standards. Normally (i.e. the last few years) they start showing the important mountain stages from the village depart and show the entire stage, not so this year only one or two of the stages if I recall, Alp Duez was one but only because that was such a short stage and didn't start till lunch time anyway. But this was the same on the host broadcasters channels aswell, so I'm not blaming Eurosport, more to do with the current economy I think. Also the quality of the HD wasn't as good.
The race itself on the other hand was great, much more enjoyable than the Giro this year.0 -
Had people put in proper digs in the first two mountain finishes it could have been very different. Well, more specifically, that was when Andy and Frank should have shaken things up. On the day Andy got a couple of seconds he missed a massive opportunity. In comparison the mountains in the third week were great, but I certainly feel that opportunities were missed earlier in the race.
For me, Andy and Frank were only worried about Contador, so just decided to mark him early on. They didn't seem to consider anyone else, including Evans, as a threat.0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:..... watching a middle aged balding man chugg up hills at his 'own pace'. He lacks an attack, and he lacks some serious style to be a good contender, Cadel lacks a bit of style, but the boy can fight.
He's younger than Evans isn't he? I think you've confused him with Chris Horner
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Does anyone think Andy had the legs to win the Tour?
Or were his bad tactics a result of not having the legs when required?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Does anyone think Andy had the legs to win the Tour?
Or were his bad tactics a result of not having the legs when required?
needed a bigger sacrifice by frank in the Pyrenees me thinks but basically no...evans had him pegged
BUT that was not clear until Evan's strength in the TT was revealed....
he would have pushed him real close if he hadn't lost the wheels going into the stage at Gap"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Does anyone think Andy had the legs to win the Tour?
Or were his bad tactics a result of not having the legs when required?
I think a bit of both, I wonder if the ITT had come first and he knew what was required he'd have better judged his efforts in the mountains, I felt the Alpe d'Huez day he need a big attack. But it's easy to say that from the bar/chair, maybe he just didn't have it. I guess we'll never know.0 -
"old 'Brad could win the Tour' i don't think so, and if he did it would be the most boring tour of all time, watching a middle aged balding man chugg up hills at his 'own pace'"
Wiggins is 31, Evans is 34.
What is Evans' riding style if not "chugging up hills at his own pace"? He can't attack in the mountains, he just goes at a steady pace and gradually pulls them back.
The Tour was exciting, but Evans' didn;'t really contribute to any of that excitement. He hardly lit it up although his TT performance was great. The rest of his race was loss-limiting rather than taking the race by the scruff of the neck.
If Wiggins were to win, it would be in a very similar manner. Not losing too much time to the attacking climbers and smashing the GC field in the TT.0 -
This is a pretty sensible discussion considering the OP is spam.0
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Gingerflash wrote:"old 'Brad could win the Tour' i don't think so, and if he did it would be the most boring tour of all time, watching a middle aged balding man chugg up hills at his 'own pace'"
Wiggins is 31, Evans is 34.
What is Evans' riding style if not "chugging up hills at his own pace"? He can't attack in the mountains, he just goes at a steady pace and gradually pulls them back.
The Tour was exciting, but Evans' didn;'t really contribute to any of that excitement. He hardly lit it up although his TT performance was great. The rest of his race was loss-limiting rather than taking the race by the scruff of the neck.
If Wiggins were to win, it would be in a very similar manner. Not losing too much time to the attacking climbers and smashing the GC field in the TT.
I Don't really agree with that to be honest, Cadel has a far grittier, more determined attitude than wiggo, he is made of completely different stuff, Plus cadel didn't make any attacks, but he certainly didn't ride at his own pace, he was at the front, constantly closing down, with no help....Rewind to wiggo sitting 10th man struggling up the bumps in the Dauphine...Anybody who thinks Wiggo would have won the Tour is crazy in my opinion, fair play for the patriotism, but wiggo is over-rated.0 -
Also if the Majority of us are backing Anton in the Vuelta, why? Surely if Wiggins was going to win the tour, then he can P*ss the Vuelta?...No, Ok then.0
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LeicesterLad wrote:Also if the Majority of us are backing Anton in the Vuelta, why? Surely if Wiggins was going to win the tour, then he can P*ss the Vuelta?...No, Ok then.
Because Anton has been focussing on the Vuelta all season long. It's his no.1 goal. That's not the case for many others, including Wiggins.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:Also if the Majority of us are backing Anton in the Vuelta, why? Surely if Wiggins was going to win the tour, then he can P*ss the Vuelta?...No, Ok then.
Because Anton has been focussing on the Vuelta all season long. It's his no.1 goal. That's not the case for many others, including Wiggins.
Thats a fair comment Rich, but Wiggo put in all the training for the Tour, he didn't really use his legs (for obvious reasons) so he's gotta be pretty fresh for the Vuelta, as fresh as he was the Tour, so i imagine its now a big priority for Wiggins.0 -
LeicesterLad wrote:I Don't really agree with that to be honest, Cadel has a far grittier, more determined attitude than wiggo, he is made of completely different stuff, Plus cadel didn't make any attacks, but he certainly didn't ride at his own pace, he was at the front, constantly closing down, with no help....Rewind to wiggo sitting 10th man struggling up the bumps in the Dauphine...Anybody who thinks Wiggo would have won the Tour is crazy in my opinion, fair play for the patriotism, but wiggo is over-rated.
Eh? Who's pace was he riding at other than his own if he was at the front?
I think Evans and Wiggins are similar riders in the mountains. Evans probably has the better natural ability but both prefer a constant pace. I'm not saying Wiggins could have / would have won as we got no real opportunity to see his relative form against the other contenders. However, considering the last time he rode against Evans was in the Dauphine which Wiggins won and Evans failed to drop him in the mountains then surely it is a little more than crazy patriotism for people to suggest he may have done? He certainly looked in the best form I have seen him in on the road.0 -
Pross wrote:LeicesterLad wrote:I Don't really agree with that to be honest, Cadel has a far grittier, more determined attitude than wiggo, he is made of completely different stuff, Plus cadel didn't make any attacks, but he certainly didn't ride at his own pace, he was at the front, constantly closing down, with no help....Rewind to wiggo sitting 10th man struggling up the bumps in the Dauphine...Anybody who thinks Wiggo would have won the Tour is crazy in my opinion, fair play for the patriotism, but wiggo is over-rated.
Eh? Who's pace was he riding at other than his own if he was at the front?
I think Evans and Wiggins are similar riders in the mountains. Evans probably has the better natural ability but both prefer a constant pace. I'm not saying Wiggins could have / would have won as we got no real opportunity to see his relative form against the other contenders. However, considering the last time he rode against Evans was in the Dauphine which Wiggins won and Evans failed to drop him in the mountains then surely it is a little more than crazy patriotism for people to suggest he may have done? He certainly looked in the best form I have seen him in on the road.
Yeah thats sounds odd, but i meant he was hardly dordelling along, he was pushing to the extreme.
Well fair enought then, its just an opinion. Who knows what would have happened if he hadn't got injured, its just guesswork, but putting his name alongside Contador, Schleck, Evans et al just doesn't seem right to me.0 -
If it wasn't for Evans winning I'd agree - had the Tour been won by a noted climber that Wiggins would struggle to stay with, yes, but I just feel that Wiggins could have hung on to Evans. It's a pointless game to speculate though - Eddy Merckx may have won if he'd taken part, who knows 0
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Pross wrote:Eddy Merckx may have won if he'd taken part, who knows
I doubt it, Did you see the bloater hanging out the sunroof talking A. Schleck on? :shock:0 -
Not using your legs is a pretty good way to lose form! Also, it's not just about the legs, it's about the head.0
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people are not betting on brad because he had an injury forced layoff and even though it was short one it will have put him back, he will be using it to get some miles in as a precursor to the TT at the worlds"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
Wiggins wouldn't have won or got on the podium at the Tour. Neither will he at the Vuelta - they're going up the Angliru after all. (Mind you I'm on holiday for the final week so probably won't see it anyway - bad planning or what?)'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
Neil Gaiman0 -
"Anybody who thinks Wiggo would have won the Tour is crazy in my opinion, fair play for the patriotism, but wiggo is over-rated."
Just so we're clear, I am not one who believes Wiggins would have won. I was just pointing out that Evans' win wasn't, in my view, very exciting and IF Wiggins had won, it would have been in a similar manner, staying top 5, limiting his losses in the mountains and gaining a couple of minutes in the TT.
I don't blame Evans for not attacking off the front - it's not his strength. However, he's just not a particularly exicitng rider, in GTs at least. He has become a lot more aggressive in single day races of course, particularly on the short sharp climbs. he just can't go off the front on a 10km 10% climb like some of his rivals.
Wiggins at the Dauphine - well, he did as much as he needed to, including beating Evans. He was there for last minute conditioning for the Tour. Not really fair to judge his panache, grit or anything else based on that.0
