Drafting Etiquette - AGAIN

nferrar

OK it's a bit odd if someone doesn't say anything but I'm with the "it really doesn't matter so why get worked up about it" crowd. If I'm out training then why should I care if someone getting a easier ride drafting? I could maybe see if I was commuting and just trying to get from A to B as quickly and easily as possible I'd expect someone to share the work (same with racing). OK there's a 1 in a gazillion chance they ram into the back of you hard enough to cause you to crash but it's much more likely nothing bad will happen and if it did chances are it's them going down not you. Probably the only thing that might bug me is I'd feel obliged to start pointing out potholes etc. which is a bit more effort but hey is someone else out on a bike, the more the merrier IMO.

k-dog

It was proved a few years ago with racing cars (Nascar I think) that 2 cars are faster than one - something to do with the airflow being smoother so even the front car gets an advantage.

So, you should be thanking them for giving you a hand...

ollyridesfirst

I see it as if someone is on my wheel, it just means i'm doing the same work anyway and i'll get fitter, and more fool them for trying to cheat their way around a bike ride....

that said, it is ignorant and not exactly courteous to just sit there without saying a word. A few rides back, me and a mate were out and i saw a rider up ahead (about 500 yards) - now i'm the guy who likes to catch people up (just the way i am i suppose) and like the challenge if they are going very quick. So i went for it, with mate in tow....caught this guy up who was on a TT bike. Anyway, we were behind him for a matter of seconds when he turned and saw us, sat up and actually stopped his bike.....We went passed, as we were going to anyway, and he then came and sat on our wheel for the next 10 miles. We then stopped to decide which way we were going to go and he went off. We caught him up again about 10 minutes later and he did the same thing....literally stopped then jumped on the wheel....

I just thought to myself.....if he's training for a long TT, then he's not really doing himself any favours! We sped up and left him anyway.....he didn't seem too impressed with us!

JD_76

This is nuts, I dont care if there is a whole team of people on my back wheel.

The point is its not affecting my ride in any way, like others have said its the person on my wheel loosing out in two ways a) they are having an easy ride b) they are behind me.

As for asking permission to sit on my wheel thats crazy also, it would be rude if I knew the person but I wouldnt expect a stranger to ask me if they can sit on my wheel as I dont own the road.

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ollyridesfirst

JD_76 wrote:

b) they are behind me.

Is your arse that bad

JD_76 wrote:

As for asking permission to sit on my wheel thats crazy also, it would be rude if I knew the person but I wouldnt expect a stranger to ask me if they can sit on my wheel as I dont own the road.

[/b]

I don't think it's as much about asking permission, it's more about just a simple hello so as to not be ignorant and maybe then taking a turn at the front. Even if they only last 20 seconds and drop back again....At least they would be trying!

JD_76

OllyRidesFirst wrote:

JD_76 wrote:

b) they are behind me.

Is your ars* that bad

JD_76 wrote:

As for asking permission to sit on my wheel thats crazy also, it would be rude if I knew the person but I wouldnt expect a stranger to ask me if they can sit on my wheel as I dont own the road.

[/b]

I don't think it's as much about asking permission, it's more about just a simple hello so as to not be ignorant and maybe then taking a turn at the front. Even if they only last 20 seconds and drop back again....At least they would be trying!

Yes :oops: and not bothered either way, I see what your saying but the way my mind works is if you cant pass me im fitter than you which makes me feel good.

Dodger747

I don't mind if someone doesn't want to come through and take a turn [although it is nice], but I do get slightly annoyed if someone jumps on my wheel and doesn't say anything. Nothing worse than turning around and scaring the cr*p out of you when another bike is just sitting there... :shock:

Jim Will Fixie It

k-dog wrote:

It was proved a few years ago with racing cars (Nascar I think) that 2 cars are faster than one - something to do with the airflow being smoother so even the front car gets an advantage.

So, you should be thanking them for giving you a hand...

A racing car (or bike for that matter) won't get any benefit from someone drafting behind them. They do, however, if the car is alongside them - side drafting.

I'm not sure is this would work on a bike though as, compared to a NASCAR, a bike doesn't create a huge hole in the air. Also, riding two-by-two always seems to be a sure fire way of annoying motorists.

Personally I don't mind if someone latches onto my wheel. It'd be nice if they said 'Hello' but, at the end of the day, it doesn't cause me any problems apart from the occasional scare, à la Dodger747.

Niccoss

Dodger747 wrote:

I don't mind if someone doesn't want to come through and take a turn [although it is nice], but I do get slightly annoyed if someone jumps on my wheel and doesn't say anything. Nothing worse than turning around and scaring the cr*p out of you when another bike is just sitting there... :shock:

+1 I'm out to ride anyway and don't mind giving a tow!
Agree with the unexpected shock too, though can usually hear people coming up behind or see that tell tale shadow!

Jason82

Can someone please start commuting from chertsey to woking so I can draft after a long day. There is a permenant headwind all the way home on my commute mother nature hates me.

cje

Jim Will Fixie It wrote:

A racing car (or bike for that matter) won't get any benefit from someone drafting behind them. They do, however, if the car is alongside them - side drafting.

On some circuits, K-Dog is right, as far as stock car racing goes. This from Wiki:

"On the faster speedways and superspeedways used by NASCAR, ARCA, and at one time the IROC series, two or more vehicles can race faster when lined up front-to-rear than a single car can race alone. The low-pressure wake behind a group's leading car reduces the aerodynamic resistance on the front of the trailing car allowing the second car to pull closer. As the second car nears the first it pushes high-pressure air forward so less fast-moving air hits the lead car's spoiler. The result is less drag for both cars, allowing faster speeds."

But I agree, it's unlikely to apply to cycling.

snickwell

Maybe he just couldn't pull through? Sitting on a wheel isn't like having a motor strapped to your bike and it doesn't mean that you don't put any effort in at all, especially at the speed beginners are going at...

I think I read that you in the pro peleton, you only have to put 70% of the effort in that the rider in the wind is putting in. When you're riding out on a Sunday morning, I think the drafting effect is even further reduced.

HOWEVER, common courtesy dictates you should shout a 'hello' or something, just to be friendly!

rick_chasey

I sometimes mind, others not.

If I mind, I sit up, move away and let them past.

Occasionally, as I pull out to let them through, they continue to follow my wheel, even breaking.

At that point, words are required.

Jim Will Fixie It

cje wrote:

Jim Will Fixie It wrote:

A racing car (or bike for that matter) won't get any benefit from someone drafting behind them. They do, however, if the car is alongside them - side drafting.

On some circuits, K-Dog is right, as far as stock car racing goes. This from Wiki:

"As the second car nears the first it pushes high-pressure air forward so less fast-moving air hits the lead car's spoiler. The result is less drag for both cars, allowing faster speeds."

I'll have to remember that when I'm racing (cars, not bikes) next weekend!

SLX01

I've just back from a walk to the local shops to buy a pint of milk and the entire way back there was this guy behind me he didn't say hello, offer to walk in front or anything.....how rude!

cje

Jim Will Fixie It wrote:

I'll have to remember that when I'm racing (cars, not bikes) next weekend!

Cool. What do you race?

ollyridesfirst

cje wrote:

As the second car nears the first it pushes high-pressure air forward so less fast-moving air hits the lead car's spoiler. The result is less drag for both cars, allowing faster speeds."

But I agree, it's unlikely to apply to cycling.

Don't you have a spoiler on your road bike then....?

That's where you're going wrong - mine helps no end!

lifeform

Brighton & Hove - coastal town, large cycling community (it's the best way to get around down here), and almost constant howling South-Westerly off the Channel - so everyone drafts to some extent. The casual-cyclist loons on generic MTBs can be witnessed drafting buses at 20mph+, no helmet, no lights, at night.

I once collected no less than 5 completely unconnected people along the seafront one afternoon - I knew someone was behind me, but surprised at the numbers. Not one of the feckers took a turn - content to let me battle into the 20mph headwind for several miles. When I dropped the pace, they did.

I've drafted people, and then taken a turn on point - but never received any thanks in return for my efforts - even when I deliberately come past, then drop the pace back to theirs.

Did have one nice event following some lycra'd chap on the remains of a Cannondale (sounded like it was falling apart). After 200yds, he looked behind and acknowledged me with a cheery greeting. He asked if I'd like to take a turn, so I responded with 'sorry, not for a bit, just got on the thing, still warming up' (which was true, we were no more than 800yds from my house). 'No worries, whenever suits you', and we spent the next couple of miles chatting about things above the din and clatter of his chain/gears/bearings. I was just about to take my turn when we went our separate ways. Honest I was.

Jim Will Fixie It

cje wrote:

Jim Will Fixie It wrote:

I'll have to remember that when I'm racing (cars, not bikes) next weekend!

Cool. What do you race?

Formula Ford 1600, but let's not hijack the thread with that. Website is on my profile.

Maybe you could all wheel suck behind me . You'd certainly beat you PB - average lap speed at Brands Hatch is around 88mph.

chiark

My first drafting experience last night!

Put some effort in to catch someone up on the first hill of my route last night, said hello, drafted for half a mile then asked if he'd like me to take the wind for a while... Swapped over, kept the pace up, swapped again twice... It's only 2.5 miles of between 2 and 6%, but I hate that hill as it's always with a headwind. Going up with someone else made it a hell of a lot easier to push harder... Not physically, but mostly mentally.

Ended up 3mph faster on average at the crest of the hill, but knackered. Other chap turned off a different way after 5 miles, just before another short climb of 7%, so I stopped for 2 mins and got my breath back, and let my heart rate down to 130...

I really must start riding with faster people, as it's a damn good incentive to hurt yourself! I now know what my heart rate alarm on the garmin sounds like

clarkey cat

I don't mind if people draft me. Incentivises me to ride faster. I was having a good old sing to myself one day though and then just checked my shoulder and was aghast to see two roadies enjoying the ride - and the singing, I hope.