Six months for nicking a bottle water
Comments
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Judge does seem to have indicated that the sentence was not for stealing water, but for looting.The judge said: “The burglary of commercial premises in circumstances such as this where substantial and wholesale public disorder has taken place is in effect what is commonly called looting.”0
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I'm sure if had just nicked a bottle of water from a newsagents on a 'normal' day things would have been very different.
But he did much more than just steal a bottle of water. He was part of a riot and he was looting, that was what the sentance was for.
Personally 6 months is not enough, they should make them clean it all up first, then jail them for 6 months, preferably more.0 -
bobinski wrote:Stockwell? not the only example either....
Eh?
you mean this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13612354A man has been killed in an apparent ride-by machine gun attack near Stockwell Tube station in south London.
Sadiq Adebiyi, 25, was targeted by two men on a motorbike as he stood on the pavement in Clapham Road on at 2330 BST on Tuesday.Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.
What would Thora Hurd do?0 -
I don't disagree that the looting/rioting means he should get a stricter sentence....but six months is idiotic. 100 hours community service would have been more beneficial for everyone.0
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Trouble is the number of "looters" saying openly on TV that they thought nothing would happen to them, one from Manchester saying "It's my first offence, what am I going to get, a ASBO? I can live with that". I also heared others saying they were too young to be put away, or the prisons are full. What's more many would have thought they would get away with it as everyone else was doing it. These tough sentances are needed so both the people caught and thier friend who maybe didn't get cuagt can clearly see there are consequences to looting.
I welcome this level of harsh sentancing, I just hope it hold through to crown court and surrives any appeals.--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
Sewinman wrote:I don't disagree that the looting/rioting means he should get a stricter sentence....but six months is idiotic. 100 hours community service would have been more beneficial for everyone.
Would it make a difference if he had stolen a telly?0 -
Sewinman wrote:I don't disagree that the looting/rioting means he should get a stricter sentence....but six months is idiotic. 100 hours community service would have been more beneficial for everyone.
But where would you draw the line? And why? On the basis that it was "only" water? Because really this thread should read "Six months for rioting and looting". The value of the items is largely immaterial - it is the circumstances of rioting and looting that really determine the sentence.
Unless you'd suggest 100 hours of community service for all of them? I don't think even you could really think that would be reasonable.
It is a sentence for the damage done by the group, not by the individual. And on that basis it really isn't excessive at all.0 -
W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I don't disagree that the looting/rioting means he should get a stricter sentence....but six months is idiotic. 100 hours community service would have been more beneficial for everyone.
But where would you draw the line? And why? On the basis that it was "only" water? Because really this thread should read "Six months for rioting and looting". The value of the items is largely immaterial - it is the circumstances of rioting and looting that really determine the sentence.
Unless you'd suggest 100 hours of community service for all of them? I don't think even you could really think that would be reasonable.
It is a sentence for the damage done by the group, not by the individual. And on that basis it really isn't excessive at all.
This is my point. Is there a sliding scale of value? 100 hours community service for £3.50 of water, 105 hours if you nick a Yorkie as well?0 -
Sketchley wrote:I welcome this level of harsh sentancing, I just hope it hold through to crown court and surrives any appeals.
This won't get through to the crown court - it's been dealt with at the magistrates already (albeit at their maximum sentencing powers). Most of the others are being "sent up" to the Crown Court, which means a likely sentence of 6 months +.0 -
Custodial sentence - wipe the grins off their faces
Its not the bottle of water - its the context behind it0 -
W1 wrote:Sketchley wrote:I welcome this level of harsh sentancing, I just hope it hold through to crown court and surrives any appeals.
This won't get through to the crown court - it's been dealt with at the magistrates already (albeit at their maximum sentencing powers). Most of the others are being "sent up" to the Crown Court, which means a likely sentence of 6 months +.
Sorry should of been clearer. I was refering to the case that are being sent to crown court not this one specifically. I hope the crown court take the same view as the lower courts are and do impose 6 month+ and that they are not reduced on appeal.--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
Greg T wrote:bobinski wrote:Stockwell? not the only example either....
Eh?
you mean this?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-13612354A man has been killed in an apparent ride-by machine gun attack near Stockwell Tube station in south London.
Sadiq Adebiyi, 25, was targeted by two men on a motorbike as he stood on the pavement in Clapham Road on at 2330 BST on Tuesday.
No, this...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_J ... de_Menezes
irrelevent to the issue of sentencing here of course.0 -
Why does the UK imprison more of its population that the rest of its western European counterparts?
Why does the UK have the highest rape rates in Western Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest number of single mothers and teenage pregnancies in Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest level of knife crime in Western Europe?
It's clearly not to do with the punishment is it?0 -
W1 wrote:Sewinman wrote:I don't disagree that the looting/rioting means he should get a stricter sentence....but six months is idiotic. 100 hours community service would have been more beneficial for everyone.
But where would you draw the line? And why? On the basis that it was "only" water? Because really this thread should read "Six months for rioting and looting". The value of the items is largely immaterial - it is the circumstances of rioting and looting that really determine the sentence.
Unless you'd suggest 100 hours of community service for all of them? I don't think even you could really think that would be reasonable.
It is a sentence for the damage done by the group, not by the individual. And on that basis it really isn't excessive at all.
I think the value of the items has some relevance, if it does not and six months is the maximum then I am off out to nick a million quid!
It is up to the judge to draw the line, hence not having fixed sentences. This sentence seems ridiculous to me - he is being punished for the action of others in order to placate the baying for blood from the DM brigade.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Why does the UK imprison more of its population that the rest of its western European counterparts?
Why does the UK have the highest rape rates in Western Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest number of single mothers and teenage pregnancies in Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest level of knife crime in Western Europe?
It's clearly not to do with the punishment is it?
Too many English?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
I'm not convinced these people deserve the harsh sentences. But they're clearly being made an example of. It would appear that the magistrates think this is the best way of preventing this kind of event from happening again. They're probably right. This is very very unfortunate for those who got caught up in the mob mentality though. Chances are they'd never commit the same crimes in "normal" circumstances. But thats life :?
Its pretty ugly to be dancing around in glee at other's misfortune though. It looks like they're paying a hefty price, personally I'd just leave it at that.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Why does the UK imprison more of its population that the rest of its western European counterparts?
Why does the UK have the highest rape rates in Western Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest number of single mothers and teenage pregnancies in Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest level of knife crime in Western Europe?
It's clearly not to do with the punishment is it?
Maybe the punishment is too lenient & doesn't deter people, maybe prison for the institutionalized is like a holiday camp, maybe we should reform the judicial system & go all corporal punishment & hard labour on their asses?Moda Issimo
Genesis Volare 853
Charge Filter Apex0 -
Water water everywhere, and not a drop to loot.
Sorry, that barely works.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Why does the UK imprison more of its population that the rest of its western European counterparts?
Why does the UK have the highest rape rates in Western Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest number of single mothers and teenage pregnancies in Europe?
Why does the UK have the highest level of knife crime in Western Europe?
It's clearly not to do with the punishment is it?
This guy understands:
"If anyone thinks that criminal justice measures alone will halt the violence on our streets, they don't understand the scale and the nature of the social breakdown that is its cause.That is why we have to be utterly uncompromising on the key social reforms that will together help us repair our broken society."
David Cameron in 20080 -
Who gives a hoot whether 6 months is "fair". Pretty sure the chap wasn't in Lidl just to nick a bottle of water. If he was then fair play to the judge for removing another idiot from the street.
I have no sympathy for any of those arrested, charged and found guilty of offences. They made a choice, they can live with the consequences.0 -
If prisons work, why are they full?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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TailWindHome wrote:If prisons work, why are they full?
Because of this, clearly:mcj78 wrote:Maybe the punishment is too lenient & doesn't deter people, maybe prison for the institutionalized is like a holiday camp, maybe we should reform the judicial system & go all corporal punishment & hard labour on their asses?
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Steal a little and they throw you in jail. Steal a lot and they make you king.
Bob Dylan.0 -
TailWindHome wrote:If prisons work, why are they full?
Maybe they like it?Fixed gear for wet weather / hairy roadie for posing in the sun.
What would Thora Hurd do?0 -
Sewinman wrote:It is up to the judge to draw the line, hence not having fixed sentences. This sentence seems ridiculous to me - he is being punished for the action of others in order to placate the baying for blood from the DM brigade.
Yep, and the judge saw fit to hand down 6 months in this case - is he pandering to the DM brigade too? I'm usually verrrrrry liberal, but things have gotten too far out of hand & a line in the sand has to be drawn. Not just on this issue either...Moda Issimo
Genesis Volare 853
Charge Filter Apex0 -
el_presidente wrote:Sewinman wrote:el_presidente wrote:Sewinman wrote:You have all gone bonkers.
5 men dead, tens of buildings burned down, millions of pounds of damage, Britain's reputation dragged through the dirt and you say WE are bonkers??
EDIT 6 if you include Duggan.
What has any of that got to do with this bloke?
He was part of the problem, big sentences are part of the solution. If he'd done a murder or arson he'd have got a lot more.
Hopefully some other thugs will look at this judgement and think twice about going out on the riot next time.
FFS.
Despite his background we do not as yet know what Duggan was shot and killed for. Fall all we know his killing may prove unlawful on the police's part.
That said:6 months is wholly disproportionate for his offence. Whatever the circumstances. You dont throw aside sentencing guidelines and commonsense just to ausage understandable public rage.
Perhaps a community order with a work requirement to go and clear up the bloody mess he and the others created might have been a better idea.
Don't get me wrong. Sentences should be handed out to reflect the disorder especially for those that used or threatened violence, committed damage or arson or engaged in wholesale looting of high value goods. But 6 months for this. Ridiculous. Reflect too on what it will cost us to keep him locked up for 3 months.
I agree but i think a community order is too lenient.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
]TailWindHome wrote:If prisons work, why are they full?
Ok fair point.
What should happen to looters then?--
Chris
Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/50 -
Source?mcj78 wrote:I'm usually verrrrrry liberal0 -
He was part of a group behaving in a way that has terrorised the public, wrecked businesses, wrecked homes and wrecked lives (some literally), and has cost the country millions, condemned individuals to homelessness, its not about was was taken, it is the behaviour he was engaged in: looting. 6 months is fine.Sewinman wrote:I don't disagree that the looting/rioting means he should get a stricter sentence....but six months is idiotic. 100 hours community service would have been more beneficial for everyone.0
