How much improved performance from using SPD's?

offshore1
offshore1 Posts: 30
edited August 2011 in MTB general
I had a few low speed fall-offs for the short time I used SPD's several years ago. Also I had knee problems at the time, and wasnt sure if it was caused by the SPD's or not - bit hard to prove due to other sports I was doing at the time.

Could anybody please tell me / suggest links to how much advantage in performance terms SPDs are considered to provide ? Should i just stick to flats if I can cycle without much pain?

I am concerned about knee problems (which can take months to resolve) and falling off, if I go back to them!

Is it worth it I suppose is the question, for maybe 5% extra power

Thanks
«13

Comments

  • kinmofo
    kinmofo Posts: 172
    never used them. never needed to. i like the idea of a quick departure from the bike if its all going a bit pete tongue!
    I'm a Nazi Zombie! And You Cant Kill Me!

    Out of all the things I've lost, I miss my Mind the most!

    dont get mad, get KROSS
  • getonyourbike
    getonyourbike Posts: 2,648
    oh, not this AGAIN!
  • mossychops
    mossychops Posts: 262
    I have heard that not being adjusted properly can cause knee issues - something to do with the angle of your feet, solution is usually to adjust the cleats (might be worth a google).

    Falling off not a huge issue as its only happened to me on rough terrain (ie grass) at a standstill. On roads I have plently of time to unclip and can do it very fast in a panic when necessary.

    Not sure about the advantage really, I have just taken mine off my mountain so I can learn to wheelie properly so I will let you know if I notice it harder to cycle (usually you dont notice things being easier, but when you go back you notice things getting harder). I think you need to "learn" to pull up a bit to really notice the difference.
  • Bigcalculator
    Bigcalculator Posts: 9
    It is not just the power, there are the additional benefits of being attached to the bike when things get bumpy and the consistency of always having your feet in the right place.

    They are definately a personal preference as to whether they are better or not as disussed in the 1001 other threads on this matter.

    I have just started using SPD and have made 3 adjustments to cleat position before getting it right. Muscle pain in unusual parts of my calf muscle let me know when i had the wrong and i found my foot was naturally trying to adjust to the correct position so the adjustment was obvious.

    Give it a try and ebay if you are not happy.
  • offshore1
    offshore1 Posts: 30
    Thanks for the replies so far

    I have read the posts before about SPD's and knees, and know this has been well covered.

    I was just interested in the actual improvement in power generated / converted by using SPD's, or thoughts on those lines.

    Thanks
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    Can the Mods make a special section of the forum called something like Boring questions and put one example of each thread of this nature in it so we can just direct people there?

    For inclusion:-

    Clipless vs Flats?
    MTB clipless vs Road Clipless?
    SRAM v Shimano v Campag?
    Fixies or not?
    Is the orange 5 a good bike?
    RLJing right or wrong?
    Did Lance Armstrong Dope?
    Does God exist?
    Is josh-tp gay?

    Any others?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • njee20
    njee20 Posts: 9,613
    Falling off not a huge issue as its only happened to me on rough terrain (ie grass)

    Rough terrain... grass? Really? Suggest that you'd be better taking up something safer, like crossword puzzles.

    You can't quantify the benefit and it's a totally personal choice. I wouldn't go back to flats.
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    njee20 wrote:
    wouldn't go back to flats.
    You may if you road a different style of MTB :wink:
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • tiny_pens
    tiny_pens Posts: 293
    Advantages of SPDs:

    1. Keeps your feet in the same position every time. So for a person with knee problems they may be advantageous in conjunction with a properly set up riding position as you should be able to minimise the stresses on your joints.

    2. Easier to get 'Awesomely high' bunny hops (in my mind I am the world record holder!)

    3. Theoretical power advantage as you can un-weight the pedals on the upstroke. This power advantage is probably about 1 Gazillion watts for the average rider (see road forums)

    4. Covers up for lack of skill as your feet don't get shaken off the pedals on bumpy terrain.

    5. Theoretical advantage in slippery conditions where consistent power is useful. See 4 above.

    Disadvantages:

    1. Covers up for lack of skill meaning you don't need to learn good technique

    2. Higher fear factor over crashes potentially leading to bottling it leading to either panic crashes (see target fixation) or slow riding.

    3. When you crash the bike goes a lot further from you (see trebuchet design for more info). Can lead to needing to clamber over fences to get it back (true story - glad it wasn't barbed wire)

    That is all.
  • Chunkers1980
    Chunkers1980 Posts: 8,035
    I wouldn't say any of those you list are disadvantages.

    The only real disadvantage is getting going on a steep incline if you stop/clip out, you can't get your weight over the back quickly enough to build momentum like you can with flats. That's it.
  • mossychops
    mossychops Posts: 262
    edited August 2011
    njee20 wrote:
    Falling off not a huge issue as its only happened to me on rough terrain (ie grass)

    Rough terrain... grass? Really? Suggest that you'd be better taking up something safer, like crossword puzzles.

    You can't quantify the benefit and it's a totally personal choice. I wouldn't go back to flats.

    LOL! The example I was thinking of was in long grass, I had stopped to talk to a mate as I clipped back in the front wheel got stuck in a wheel sized hole covered by the long grass, and the bike stopped, I rolled onto the soft grass. The point was I havent fallen on tarmac as you can see the surface well and plenty of time to unclip.

    Suggest if some people are tired of hearing about clipless posts, you don't open any posts with the subject "How much improved performance from using SPD's?" Even better, don't click on it, read it all the way to the bottom, get upset because some people don't have your vast knowledge and then bother to post a complely pointless post. At least the OP had a point. I'm sure people are more fed up with moaning old gits than posts about pedals.

    Maybe you could start your own forums for sarcastic cyclists only, where every opinion has to match your own and you can vet each post before anyone dares to offend you with a question that's been asked before.

    It does help people to ask the question again because you have a level of interactivity (with the helpful people) you can't get with posts no longer being read.

    [/pmt]


    Edit: Not directed at you njee20, in case the quote makes it look like that. Might have got a little over miffed actually and gone off on one there. Oops. Just get a little annoyed when people don't show tolerance to people asking for help/advice.
  • njee20
    njee20 Posts: 9,613
    You may if you road a different style of MTB

    Quite possible, I did say personal preference :-)

    Big 'if' though, I've never ridden an MTB with flats, and can't see me getting into dirt jumping or North Shore, which are the disciplines where I'd choose flats!
  • Kaise
    Kaise Posts: 2,498
    ddraver wrote:
    Can the Mods make a special section of the forum called something like Boring questions and put one example of each thread of this nature in it so we can just direct people there?

    For inclusion:-

    Clipless vs Flats?
    MTB clipless vs Road Clipless?
    SRAM v Shimano v Campag?
    Fixies or not?
    Is the orange 5 a good bike?
    RLJing right or wrong?
    Did Lance Armstrong Dope?
    Does God exist?
    Is josh-tp gay?

    Any others?


    ^^ VERY MUCH THIS ^^

    the SPD vs FLATS questions comes up alot and a sticky might be in order??
    :)Ragley Blue Pig
    :twisted: Spesh Demo 8 II
  • getonyourbike
    getonyourbike Posts: 2,648
    kaiser83 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Can the Mods make a special section of the forum called something like Boring questions and put one example of each thread of this nature in it so we can just direct people there?

    For inclusion:-

    Clipless vs Flats?
    MTB clipless vs Road Clipless?
    SRAM v Shimano v Campag?
    Fixies or not?
    Is the orange 5 a good bike?
    RLJing right or wrong?
    Did Lance Armstrong Dope?
    Does God exist?
    Is josh-tp gay?

    Any others?


    ^^ VERY MUCH THIS ^^

    the SPD vs FLATS questions comes up alot and a sticky might be in order??
    + PO
    TA
    TO
    !!!
  • weeksy59
    weeksy59 Posts: 2,606
    mossychops wrote:

    Suggest if some people are tired of hearing about clipless posts, you don't open any posts with the subject "How much improved performance from using SPD's?" Even better, don't click on it, read it all the way to the bottom, get upset because some people don't have your vast knowledge and then bother to post a complely pointless post. At least the OP had a point. I'm sure people are more fed up with moaning old gits than posts about pedals. .

    Correct. :) Nothijng worse than muppets posting just to tell you something of NO use at all that they dislike your thread/topic.

    Good reply
    Salsa Spearfish 29er
    http://superdukeforum.forumatic.com/index.php
  • weeksy59
    weeksy59 Posts: 2,606
    mossychops wrote:

    Suggest if some people are tired of hearing about clipless posts, you don't open any posts with the subject "How much improved performance from using SPD's?" Even better, don't click on it, read it all the way to the bottom, get upset because some people don't have your vast knowledge and then bother to post a complely pointless post. At least the OP had a point. I'm sure people are more fed up with moaning old gits than posts about pedals. .

    Correct. :) Nothijng worse than muppets posting just to tell you something of NO use at all that they dislike your thread/topic.

    Good reply
    Salsa Spearfish 29er
    http://superdukeforum.forumatic.com/index.php
  • Kaise
    Kaise Posts: 2,498
    weeksy59 wrote:
    mossychops wrote:

    Suggest if some people are tired of hearing about clipless posts, you don't open any posts with the subject "How much improved performance from using SPD's?" Even better, don't click on it, read it all the way to the bottom, get upset because some people don't have your vast knowledge and then bother to post a complely pointless post. At least the OP had a point. I'm sure people are more fed up with moaning old gits than posts about pedals. .

    Correct. :) Nothijng worse than muppets posting just to tell you something of NO use at all that they dislike your thread/topic.

    Good reply

    correct, i hear you but is wasnt stating that i didnt like the post, i was stating that it whas been covered a million times and has the potential to be used as a sticky as general information. I brought this subject up when i first came to the forum and i wish there had been a sticky or a FAQ. Put your handbag down :roll:
    :)Ragley Blue Pig
    :twisted: Spesh Demo 8 II
  • Kaise
    Kaise Posts: 2,498
    In response to the original poster, SPD vs Flats is a question that has no exact answer, as every rider is different.

    I used to use spd's a lot and i still do when i am doing endurance events but not when out at trail centres as i like to get my footdown on the odd berm and feel i can throw myself into it a bit more know i can get out of the pedals, the increased efficiency in this doesnt come in to my decisions on that point.

    but for an idea of pedal efficiencies and clipless pedals see this link
    vv
    http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/upl ... Stroke.pdf
    :)Ragley Blue Pig
    :twisted: Spesh Demo 8 II
  • mossychops
    mossychops Posts: 262
    kaiser83 wrote:
    correct, i hear you but is wasnt stating that i didnt like the post, i was stating that it whas been covered a million times and has the potential to be used as a sticky as general information. I brought this subject up when i first came to the forum and i wish there had been a sticky or a FAQ. Put your handbag down :roll:

    *puts handbag down*
  • mossychops
    mossychops Posts: 262
    Cant find my handbag.

    I was sure I put it down in here and now I can't find it.
  • offshore1
    offshore1 Posts: 30
    Thanks for the advice - I have found the answer to my question.

    I would have to agree its farly pointless posting sarcastic comments - forums like this are always going to attract a large proportion of new inexperienced readers and posters.
    Its probably unrealistic to expect them to find the information through acres of random past posts.

    I spent several years learning about fly fishing and tackle; I see the same questions I asked years ago repeated on fishing forums, so I just dont bother to open those links now.

    I have just gone past my shelf-life for 75% of it - but understand other people need basic advice to enjoy their new sport more, and avoid wasting their hard earned money.

    Perhaps refer to Sticky in FAQ is the best response, and even write the FAQ response yourself.

    End of rant.
  • Kaise
    Kaise Posts: 2,498
    agreed, thats why i suggested a sticky, did you read the pdf i linked a little earlier?!

    its interesting but the flats to spd question is so difficult as everyone has a different riding style, know what i mean.
    :)Ragley Blue Pig
    :twisted: Spesh Demo 8 II
  • .blitz
    .blitz Posts: 6,197
    The only thing I would add is that IME the SPD shoes you wear make a difference. I started with SPDs in the early 90s and used them without any issues until a few years ago when I started experiencing all kinds of weird aches & pains.

    After going through all the usual set up procedures I changed my XCJ shoes for some more flexible ones and hey ho the discomfort disappeared. Being locked in to some super-stiff SPD shoes feels good from a performance point of view but it can have its disadvantages.
  • guy72277
    guy72277 Posts: 74
    ddraver wrote:
    Clipless vs Flats?
    MTB clipless vs Road Clipless?
    SRAM v Shimano v Campag?
    Fixies or not?

    26" or 29"?
    The list goes on......

    Not sure stickies are the answer, but these Qs are clearly FAQs and should go somewhere pretty visible on the site.

    Then again, those FAQs have been covered one thousand times by one thousand sites, so maybe the best option is to post this link everywhere - www.justfuckinggoogleit.com - However, it's not really in keeping with the community spirit of a web forum.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    This comes up often for debate as there is no set answer. Even if was an FAQ, I cannot say 'SPDs offer no power advantage' as some people disagree. I could post literature on the topic, but people still want to discuss and share opinions and read other views.

    A forum is for discussion, so discuss. Though can help to find an older thread ;-)
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

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    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,661
    guy72277 wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    Clipless vs Flats?
    MTB clipless vs Road Clipless?
    SRAM v Shimano v Campag?
    Fixies or not?

    26" or 29"?
    The list goes on......

    Not sure stickies are the answer, but these Qs are clearly FAQs and should go somewhere pretty visible on the site.

    Then again, those FAQs have been covered one thousand times by one thousand sites, so maybe the best option is to post this link everywhere - www.justfuckinggoogleit.com - However, it's not really in keeping with the community spirit of a web forum.

    Maybe not so much an FAQ section but a "frequently debated topics" section....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    How about we have a SPD v FLATS tug of war at a forum meet up some time :D:lol:
  • getonyourbike
    getonyourbike Posts: 2,648
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    How about we have a SPD v FLATS tug of war at a forum meet up some time :D:lol:
    The flats brigade have 'real men' so we'll obviously win hands down :P
  • bike-a-swan
    bike-a-swan Posts: 1,235
    Can the SPD brigade have clip ins on the floor?
    Rock Lobster 853, Trek 1200 and a very old, tired and loved Apollo Javelin.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    bike-a-swan wrote:
    Can the SPD brigade have clip ins on the floor?
    EPIC FAIL!!!!
    You spazwangle :lol:
    I meant on the bikes, attatch a rope to the seatpost of two bikes, one on flats and one on SPuDs, and see who wins.

    It would prove nothing, but it would be a laugh, I'm sure :lol:

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