Female Cyclist Killed This Morning In Belfast

antlaff

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-14384225

tragic news for another family

Kieran_Burns

While I have genuine sympathies for the family of the bereaved; I think people better take a very deep breath and think calm thoughts before they read that appalling piece of journalism.

DonDaddyD

Terrible news, RIP.

Kieran, what was wrong with the article?

Kieran_Burns

Conall McDevitt of the SDLP extended his "extreme sympathies" to the friends and family of the woman and said her death highlighted how dangerous cycling can be.

muttermuttermutter

Wrath Rob

Condolences to all concerned. Got to echo DDD, the article seemed pretty factual, albeit there weren't many facts, rather than opinion based.

antlaff

Kieran_Burns wrote:

Conall McDevitt of the SDLP extended his "extreme sympathies" to the friends and family of the woman and said her death highlighted how dangerous cycling can be.

muttermuttermutter

in fairness he does state

'..highlights the need for the executive to give better provision for cyclists.'

deptfordmarmoset

Kieran_Burns wrote:

While I have genuine sympathies for the family of the bereaved; I think people better take a very deep breath and think calm thoughts before they read that appalling piece of journalism.

Was it the hiding of another cyclist's death in a hit-and-run after the word ''Meanwhile...'' that upset you?

EDIT: Ok, I've seen your reply. Still, no headline for him, not even a name.

Kieran_Burns

deptfordmarmoset wrote:

Kieran_Burns wrote:

While I have genuine sympathies for the family of the bereaved; I think people better take a very deep breath and think calm thoughts before they read that appalling piece of journalism.

Was it the hiding of another cyclist's death in a hit-and-run after the word ''Meanwhile...'' that upset you?

that as well....

DonDaddyD

But cycling can be dangerous.

jedster

so can crossing the road, so can driving a car but you dont read comments about how accidents highlight how dangerous crossing a road can be...

veronese68

DonDaddyD wrote:

But cycling can be dangerous.

So can crossing a road, that doesn't get highlighted in the same way though.

bails87

I wouldn't blame the journalist, they just quoted a minister, who went on to talk about improving conditions for cyclists.

antlaff

jedster wrote:

so can crossing the road, so can driving a car but you dont read comments about how accidents highlight how dangerous crossing a road can be...

Yes but in Belfast the cycle network is pathetic coupled with the reduction from £450k to £8k per year spending allocation on cycling does highlight for better provision

http://www.rainmiles.com/archives/cycle-city-protest-at-spending-cuts.html

rolf_f

jedster wrote:

so can crossing the road, so can driving a car but you dont read comments about how accidents highlight how dangerous crossing a road can be...

No, but in the real world it is pretty difficult to avoid crossing roads. That kind of fits in with a baseline risk of living in a densely populated country. Cycling is an additional risk on top of that which people might take up without thought to the additional risk (which, apologies, is there. Cycling is more dangerous than walking).

shm_uk

When people say 'cycling can be dangerous', what they really mean is 'you shouldn't be riding that on the road. you shouldn't even be on our roads'

mybreakfastconsisted

That's crap reporting from the beeb, again. They have totally and dishonestly misrepresented what the politician said.

Still, at least the awful events were noticed by the BBC, as far as I know they have never, once, reported on the cyclists' deaths in London, 11 so far this year after the horrible death at the weekend.

DonDaddyD

In any case, yes cycling can be dangerous. Just because other modes of transport can be less than, equally or more dangerous than cycling doesn't negate the fact that cycling can be dangerous.

Cycling is more notable for it's dangers because of the vulnerability of the cyclist compared to other forms of transport.

All that said I did not interpret the report as being weighted against cycling. There are dangers and more needs to be to make it safe. That's how I read that part of the article that seems to be the topic of debate.

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

That's crap reporting from the beeb, again. They have totally and dishonestly misrepresented what the politician said.

Oh you were there were you when they interviewed the politician. I take it you can provide proof that they indeed misrepresented what he said.

bails87

I thought there was some kind of law/recommendation that all road fatalities in NI should be reported, it raises awareness and helps make people drive a bit more sensibly, apparently.

mybreakfastconsisted

Rolf F wrote:

jedster wrote:

so can crossing the road, so can driving a car but you dont read comments about how accidents highlight how dangerous crossing a road can be...

No, but in the real world it is pretty difficult to avoid crossing roads. That kind of fits in with a baseline risk of living in a densely populated country. Cycling is an additional risk on top of that which people might take up without thought to the additional risk (which, apologies, is there. Cycling is more dangerous than walking).

No.

Broadly, cycling is about as dangerous as walking:

http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/nhl/commentary/soundbytes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16893940

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

That's crap reporting from the beeb, again. They have totally and dishonestly misrepresented what the politician said.

Oh you were there were you when they interviewed the politician. I take it you can provide proof that they indeed misrepresented what he said.

I was about to post something similar in response to MBC

However I re read the article and find my self in agreement with MBC

The Poliitician Said

"This is the second tragic death this summer of a cyclist on our roads in Belfast and it highlights the need to make our roads safer for all road users and highlights the need for the executive to give better provision for cyclists,"


The BBC interpreted it as


Conall McDevitt of the SDLP extended his "extreme sympathies" to the friends and family of the woman and said her death highlighted how dangerous cycling can be.

bails87

Hmmm, so he didn't actually say "how dangerous cycling can be". Could be a fair point then in that case.

mybreakfastconsisted

What the politician said:

http://www.conallmcdevitt.ie/news/mcdev ... yclist/297

Mr McDevitt who is a keen cyclist has called on all road users to think more about road safety.
He said:



"This is a huge tragedy and my sympathies go to the victim's family and friends.
"There has been a significant increase in the number of people commuting to work and school on bikes in Belfast.
"There will be a full investigation into the specific circumstances of this tragic accident.
"Irrespective on its outcome, I want to appeal to all roads users, be they on two wheels or four, to be road safe.
"We must all learn to share our roads and accept other users as equals. This tragedy cannot be allowed to deter people from using their bikes as a safe and healthy alternative to the car."
Mr McDevitt also expressed his party's sympathy with the family and friends of charity cyclist Gareth Crockett who died yesterday in another accident in Wales.


What the BBC claimed he said:

Conall McDevitt of the SDLP extended his "extreme sympathies" to the friends and family of the woman and said her death highlighted how dangerous cycling can be.


The BBC mangled the quote and completely misrepresented what was said.

DonDaddyD

Tailwindhome,

You know the rules. The Right and Just aren't supposed to agree with Mybreakfastconsisted, ever. As per the rules, you should have contacted me, via PM, to change my post should it have been wrong. But under no circumstances are we supposed to agree with MBC.

As punishment I think you need to change your username to Headwindhome.

At least that's what I'm going to be referring to you as (until I forget).

tailwindhome

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

What the politician said:

http://www.conallmcdevitt.ie/news/mcdev ... yclist/297

Mr McDevitt who is a keen cyclist has called on all road users to think more about road safety.
He said:



"This is a huge tragedy and my sympathies go to the victim's family and friends.
"There has been a significant increase in the number of people commuting to work and school on bikes in Belfast.
"There will be a full investigation into the specific circumstances of this tragic accident.
"Irrespective on its outcome, I want to appeal to all roads users, be they on two wheels or four, to be road safe.
"We must all learn to share our roads and accept other users as equals. This tragedy cannot be allowed to deter people from using their bikes as a safe and healthy alternative to the car."
Mr McDevitt also expressed his party's sympathy with the family and friends of charity cyclist Gareth Crockett who died yesterday in another accident in Wales.


What the BBC claimed he said:

Conall McDevitt of the SDLP extended his "extreme sympathies" to the friends and family of the woman and said her death highlighted how dangerous cycling can be.


The BBC mangled the quote and completely misrepresented what was said.

That quote from Conall Mc Devitt is in reference to a previous incident several months ago

You don't help yourself, do you?

tailwindhome

DonDaddyD wrote:

Tailwindhome,

You know the rules. The Right and Just aren't supposed to agree with Mybreakfastconsisted, ever. As per the rules, you should have contacted me, via PM, to change my post should it have been wrong. But under no circumstances are we supposed to agree with MBC.

As punishment I think you need to change your username to Headwindhome.

At least that's what I'm going to be referring to you as (until I forget).

Think of me as one of your Marvel superheroes, fighting injustice wherever it arises.

mybreakfastconsisted

Belfast telegraph have done exactly the same thing:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 31684.html

Complaint sent to the BBC, with the correct quote!

mybreakfastconsisted

The BBC have form for this, not my complaint:

6th December 2010

Dear Sir

I am writing to complain about your use of language in this article: Two cyclists killed in coach collision in Cumbria

I am extremely unhappy with the way you have used the passive tone both in the headline and throughout the article. I note the BBC Style Guide has a whole chapter dedicated to explaining why generally using the active voice is preferable. Indeed it says, “officials of all kinds love the passive because individual actions are buried beneath a cloak of collective responsibility. They say ‘mistakes were made’ instead of ‘we made mistakes’”. This is precisely what happens in this article – the event comes across as tragic but unavoidable. Surely, “Coach collides with cyclists”, is much stronger?

I understand that perhaps the passive tone was used deliberately out of fear of libelling the coach driver. However this occurred on an ‘A’ road while travelling in the same direction. The coach driver was arrested for causing death by dangerous driving. It is pretty clear that the coach collided with the cyclists and not the other way around.

I feel constantly frustrated by the BBC’s lack of sympathy in its coverage of cycling accidents. This example may seem like pedantry but it is typical of the attitude that no one is really responsible when a driver’s carelessness causes two young people to die.

I would be grateful if you could confirm that you have received this.

Many thanks.

12th December 2010

Dear [my name],

Thank you for your email. As you point out, the driver of the coach has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. This means we had to be especially careful with the language we used reporting this story, to avoid any risk of contempt of court.

Please be assured we always think hard about the way crash stories involving cyclists and pedestrians are written.

Regards,

BBC News website

12th December 2010

Dear [their name],

Thanks for your response – I do appreciate it. Sadly, your assurance does not bring me much confidence given the frequency of passivity in articles about cyclists, even when all the fact are known. A quick Google search brings up some particularly bad examples:

9th March 2010 – Jake Chapman, a 14 year old who was killed when knocked off his bike, “collided with a car” according to the caption under his image. And in another story about the same incident, “he collided with a Honda Civic travelling in the same direction.”

12th April 2010 – both passivity and victim blaming: Cyclist killed in collision with car in Wallasey - actually, a driver ploughed into the back of Matthew Chapman’s bicycle and he was killed.

31st March 2010 – A day when Amber Magginley, 29, was killed after “colliding with an articulated lorry.” They were “travelling in the same direction”. Hmmm…

This is not to say that all BBC News coverage of cyclists who are killed is in this vein – the language used about, for example, Anthony Maynard’s death was appropriate (“who was killed”, “struck by a van” etc.). But there seems to be no consistency.

If you can say, “cyclist collides with car” when you do not know who is at fault, why can you not say “coach collides with cyclists,” in the article I initially emailed about?

Thanks.

Sadly, I never received a further response.


http://cycleoffutility.wordpress.com/20 ... hink-hard/

DonDaddyD

See Headwindhome!

You've set him off again and his mad crtl c / crtrl v skillz

That's why we never agree with him, ever.

rolf_f

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

No.

Broadly, cycling is about as dangerous as walking:

http://www.nohelmetlaw.org.uk/nhl/commentary/soundbytes

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16893940

Sorry, you'll have to do better than that. One a website with an agenda, the other research on child safety.

Surely don't really believe that riding a cycle at 20 miles an hour is as safe as walking? If you must post statistics, do make sure they are relevant and correctly interpreted - eg are they relating to journeys made or miles covered. This isn't an issue about whether if cyclists should wear helmets then pedestrians should as well (surely one of the stupidest conclusions anyone could draw about anything!) - just the observation that travelling at high speed on a lightweight contraption with low manouverability is less safe than walking. If nothing else, speed increases danger.

Part of the problem is that danger tends to occur when things of different speed and bulk are in proximity - eg cars and bikes. When we ride, we are always surrounded by less vulnerable things moving at different speeds. The vast majority of the time, pedestrians are just surrounded by pedestrians.

mybreakfastconsisted

Rolf, cycling is safe and getting safer as cycling becomes more popular. It is hard to compare stats sensibly, per mile travelled, types of road used, but broadly the risks for cycling are the same as for walking. It's a quirk of statistics that you're more likely to be killed by a police car on the pavement than a cyclist. The BMA reckon the health benefits of cycling outweigh the risks by a factor of 8 to 1. The sloppy reporting above propogates the myth that cycling is dangerous- it really isn't!

The belief that British cyclists face high actual risks is not sustained by the evidence; the actual risks are very low in everyday terms.

So why did the ‘danger myth’ arise?

Perceived danger is not revealed by casualty data. The greater performance of modern cars has increased perceived danger. Cycle campaigners have often presented their case without precision, instead using reactionary language that implied motor
traffic imposed far greater danger on cyclists than on itself.
Official studies have focused on comparing risk on a per-kilometre basis, without reference to the higher fatality rates borne by pedestrians.

pdf here:

http://cyclinginstructor.com/cyclingins ... $Category1)/E0A4E09F5D74812F80257177004D9A87/$FILE/c2014.pdf?OpenElement

tailwindhome

TailWindHome wrote:

mybreakfastconsisted wrote:

What the politician said:

http://www.conallmcdevitt.ie/news/mcdev ... yclist/297

<snip>

What the BBC claimed he said:

Conall McDevitt of the SDLP extended his "extreme sympathies" to the friends and family of the woman and said her death highlighted how dangerous cycling can be.


The BBC mangled the quote and completely misrepresented what was said.

That quote from Conall Mc Devitt is in reference to a previous incident several months ago

You don't help yourself, do you?

Pot, Kettle