Red light jumpers - am i getting old and crotchety?!

glanma

Now i don't mind anyone telling me I'm getting a bit Victor Meldrew-ish, but I've lost count recently of the amount of times that I pull up at a set of red lights only to see someone come from behind me and ride straight through them! I mean, am I missing something here - some people stick a smack hat on, very wise, but then jump the lights. Derr!! :shock:

sloppyschleckonds

http://youtu.be/e0tiNwOpZ68

desweller

This subject's been done to death, then flogged, then cut up into very small pieces, which have then been stamped on. By a fat bloke. Many times.

Do a search for RLJ on the commuting sections to see what I mean...

Thebigbee

My view is that anyone that feels the need to complain about a cyclist doing that. Would put them in the category of a "never law breaking driver". I assume that you NEVER drive above the speed limit, you NEVER talk on the phone whilst driving or park illegally and you ALWAYS indicate at roundabouts and where LEGALLY enforced?

If you have ever broken the speed limit - then - well - that's a start. The speed limit is there for a reason as are traffic lights...

Hmmm....

P_Tucker

I jump red lights when I judge its safe for me to do so. There, I said it.

Heavenfire

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

P_Tucker

Heavenfire wrote:

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

Screw that, Ill sue the sucker for all they're worth.

desweller

Now all we need is for someone to say that they think it's MAD that some IRRESPONSIBLE and SUBVERSIVE so-called 'citizens' choose not to wear cycle helmets and we'll be up and running. Maybe someone else could kick off about chain lube too, give us the holy trinity of unresolved and utterly trivial internet cycling debates.

That bloody search function is one of the most underused buttons on this forum.

Sorry, sorry, I need to eat something.

Jay dubbleU

P_Tucker wrote:

Heavenfire wrote:

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

Screw that, Ill sue the sucker for all they're worth.

And lose

Speedmenace

it depends on a lot of variables, if you know the order of the lights, good visibility etc then some times its OK to go through reds, I doubt the majority of bike accidents are down to people jumping reds... i lol at the people who stop at the pedestrian crossings when there is no one walking on the road

P_Tucker

Jay dubbleU wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Heavenfire wrote:

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

Screw that, Ill sue the sucker for all they're worth.

And lose

What, motorist jumps red light, hits law-abiding cyclist, cyclist loses? Are you by any chance Lionel Hutz?

Speedmenace

P_Tucker wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Heavenfire wrote:

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

Screw that, Ill sue the sucker for all they're worth.

And lose

What, motorist jumps red light, hits law-abiding cyclist, cyclist loses? Are you by any chance Lionel Hutz?

pretty sure hes talking about T junction/cross road traffic lights

Thebigbee

The problem is - there are loads of roundabouts near me - that worked just fine - but have been turned into traffic light gyratories - for no apparent reason.

You sit there at 2am in the morning and you can see full well that nothing is coming - but you have to sit there for 3 minutes.

Do I expect a cyclist to sit there with me - when we can all see that it is completely safe to cross?

Of course I don't. And the only reason I, like thousands of other motorists, don't go through when it is perfectly safe, is because I am wary of getting photographed, fined and pointed.
Then again if I was on a bike, personally I would think - fck that - sorry....

glanma

OK, so the newbie mentioned a previously covered topic - life's full of annoyances, eh? Irony is obviously lost in some cases here. What I was getting at is that a cyclist waiting at a red light usually has a good reason for it, although I will concede not always! So to come from behind someone who's waiting and go through seems a bit daft. And I find the irony amusing where people put on a helmet to aid their safety and then jump red lights. Personally i don't give a monkeys if other cyclists do or don't - by choice, I don't - but then that's maybe down to being a mainly leisure rider rather than a commuter. I'll butt out of this one now and go find the search button.

MattC59

Speedmenace wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Heavenfire wrote:

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

Screw that, Ill sue the sucker for all they're worth.

And lose

What, motorist jumps red light, hits law-abiding cyclist, cyclist loses? Are you by any chance Lionel Hutz?

pretty sure hes talking about T junction/cross road traffic lights

Pretty sure he's talking about a cyclist jumping the red light. But P_Tucker is becoming a bit of a Troll, so I wouldn't get too sucked in.

Headhuunter

P_Tucker wrote:

I jump red lights when I judge its safe for me to do so. There, I said it.

Me too. I really can't see much difference between a ped crossing the road willy nilly against the red man and me crossing a red light when there's nothing coming. Yes, yes, I know the law says I should stop at reds but road law is 99% defined with motor traffic in mind, not cyclists.

I would never blast through a red, fingers crossed, at full speed, I cross when there is literally nothing happening at about jogging pace/less than 10mph looking both ways as though I'm a ped crossing the road. I don't see why someone on foot is able to judge when to cross the road without lights to aid them, yet suddenly as soon as they step on a bike it becomes impossible.

Cyclists have far more in common in terms of speed and manoevrability with peds than someone in a car effectively aurally sealed off from the outside world behind tinted glass, with a sterro going and the framework of the car obstructing sight lines...

tarquin_foxglove

Thebigbee wrote:

The problem is - there are loads of roundabouts near me - that worked just fine - but have been turned into traffic light gyratories - for no apparent reason.

It's part of the winning strategy of Traffic Engineers to 'smooth traffic flow'. You have lots of little traffic jams all over the area preventing the major congestion black spots reaching critical mass and causing massive tailbacks.

Apparently they're planning on putting traffic lights on the on & off ramps of all motorways & major A roads as well.

mouth

Headhuunter wrote:

Yes, yes, I know the law says I should stop at reds but road law is 99% defined with motor traffic in mind, not cyclists.

Road law is designed with ROAD USERS in mind. As a cyclist you are considered a road user. Whoever it was saying about not jumping lights in a car because of points etc, there have been cases of cyclists losing their car license through misdemeanors committed on a bike.It's also worth noting that a pedestrian crossing the road is also considered as a road user by the Highway Code.

Paul E

MattC59 wrote:

Speedmenace wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Jay dubbleU wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

Heavenfire wrote:

If you jump lights, don't complain when you get hit by a car doing the same (or whatever the car driver thinks is safe at the time).

Screw that, Ill sue the sucker for all they're worth.

And lose

What, motorist jumps red light, hits law-abiding cyclist, cyclist loses? Are you by any chance Lionel Hutz?

pretty sure hes talking about T junction/cross road traffic lights

Pretty sure he's talking about a cyclist jumping the red light. But P_Tucker is becoming a bit of a Troll, so I wouldn't get too sucked in.

becoming!!!!

markos1963

I get fed up with car drivers moaning about cyclist jumping reds so I don't do it. I make sure though that I get to the front of the queue and get in their way and move off slowly fiddling around with my clips and stuff.
The law is there for everyones protection if we think we are above it then how can we trust it? I'd hate it and would find it very difficult to stay in the sport if I hit a cyclist who had jumped the lights.
We don't have a crystal ball at our disposal so how would we know for certain that it is safe to jump them at any time.
In my job(train driver) I would lose my job if I went passed just one red light and I take that attitude when riding.

Headhuunter

Mouth wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

Yes, yes, I know the law says I should stop at reds but road law is 99% defined with motor traffic in mind, not cyclists.

Road law is designed with ROAD USERS in mind. As a cyclist you are considered a road user. Whoever it was saying about not jumping lights in a car because of points etc, there have been cases of cyclists losing their car license through misdemeanors committed on a bike.It's also worth noting that a pedestrian crossing the road is also considered as a road user by the Highway Code.

And by "road users", the authorities generally mean motorists. There is very little concession to cyclists on our roads! Just look at the way TfL is dealing with Blackfriars Bridge. Peds and cyclists shoved to one side whilst the trail blaze an urban motorway across the river.

As far as I'm concerned it's often safer to carefully RLJ than it is to sit at the red light and risk being left hooked as you set off or get caught up in the jostling between drivers as they accelerate away from the lights. Busy junctionsare possibly the most dangerous places to be for cyclists.

Crossing carefully on red (just as peds do) means you get ahead of all the traffic at a junction and position youself in a clear, visible place on the road as it approaches from behind once the lights have gone green (assuming car traffic is even going as fast as cycle traffic)...

Jason82

Don't particually care but about other people but I don't jump lights because I want to set a good example to the school kids I see on my route to and from work. If they wern't there it would probably be a different story but I feel obliged as a youth worker to do so.

pedalrog

I won't jump red lights because it's against the law of the land. Only bad people jump lights. The only exception is if a bike fails to trigger them and the road is clear after waiting a short while.
You are absolutely right Jason82, set a good example to others.
Nor do I get in motorists way if I can help it. What's the point of alienating others, it will only make them hate us more. Everybody is owed consideration from others on the road, I will stand my ground if there is a dispute but don't go out of my way to start a war.

If you jump lights be ready to face prosecution.

P_Tucker

pedalrog wrote:

I won't jump red lights because it's against the law of the land. Only bad people jump lights. The only exception is if a bike fails to trigger them and the road is clear after waiting a short while.
You are absolutely right Jason82, set a good example to others.
Nor do I get in motorists way if I can help it. What's the point of alienating others, it will only make them hate us more. Everybody is owed consideration from others on the road, I will stand my ground if there is a dispute but don't go out of my way to start a war.

If you jump lights be ready to face prosecution.

"only bad people jump lights, but I do it occasionally". I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you believe in god - am I right?

Jason82

P_Tucker wrote:

pedalrog wrote:

I won't jump red lights because it's against the law of the land. Only bad people jump lights. The only exception is if a bike fails to trigger them and the road is clear after waiting a short while.
You are absolutely right Jason82, set a good example to others.
Nor do I get in motorists way if I can help it. What's the point of alienating others, it will only make them hate us more. Everybody is owed consideration from others on the road, I will stand my ground if there is a dispute but don't go out of my way to start a war.

If you jump lights be ready to face prosecution.

"only bad people jump lights, but I do it occasionally". I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you believe in god - am I right?

Are you implying that to be religous you need to be nuts?

Hierotochan

Jason82 wrote:

P_Tucker wrote:

pedalrog wrote:

I won't jump red lights because it's against the law of the land. Only bad people jump lights. The only exception is if a bike fails to trigger them and the road is clear after waiting a short while.
You are absolutely right Jason82, set a good example to others.
Nor do I get in motorists way if I can help it. What's the point of alienating others, it will only make them hate us more. Everybody is owed consideration from others on the road, I will stand my ground if there is a dispute but don't go out of my way to start a war.

If you jump lights be ready to face prosecution.

"only bad people jump lights, but I do it occasionally". I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you believe in god - am I right?

Are you implying that to be religous you need to be nuts?

I think it helps!

Headhuunter

pedalrog wrote:

I won't jump red lights because it's against the law of the land. Only bad people jump lights. The only exception is if a bike fails to trigger them and the road is clear after waiting a short while.
You are absolutely right Jason82, set a good example to others.
Nor do I get in motorists way if I can help it. What's the point of alienating others, it will only make them hate us more. Everybody is owed consideration from others on the road, I will stand my ground if there is a dispute but don't go out of my way to start a war.

If you jump lights be ready to face prosecution.

There's no prosecution for RLJing. I've been stopped a few times, you get a bit of a dressing down, yes sir, no sir and you're on your way. I've paid a £30 fine a couple of times but that's it...

garnett

markos1963 wrote:

I get fed up with car drivers moaning about cyclist jumping reds so I don't do it. I make sure though that I get to the front of the queue and get in their way and move off slowly fiddling around with my clips and stuff.

Yes! That's the way to do it.

My thinking is that each RLJ runs the risk of pi55ing off a knuckle-dragging white van man and ratcheting up his "righteous" anti-cyclist vitriol, so that he's "justified" when he then gives the lady on her sit-up-and-beg slightly less room next time he goes round her.

Slightly irrational and convoluted, I'll concede.

mcj78

[quote="Headhuunter"
As far as I'm concerned it's often safer to carefully RLJ than it is to sit at the red light and risk being left hooked as you set off or get caught up in the jostling between drivers as they accelerate away from the lights. Busy junctionsare possibly the most dangerous places to be for cyclists.

Crossing carefully on red (just as peds do) means you get ahead of all the traffic at a junction and position youself in a clear, visible place on the road as it approaches from behind once the lights have gone green (assuming car traffic is even going as fast as cycle traffic)...[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, countless times i've been almost taken out by inconsiderate wankers desperate to get through the next set of lights before they change - this morning it happened again, I filtered to the front of the traffic queue & waited for the lights to change, set off on green & got up to about 23mph holding primary position in the lane approaching a corner when some clown decides to overtake me, in the same lane, halfway round the corner, in order to beat the next set of lights - he then realizes he can't so pulls into the left (filter) lane & undertakes me at the last second before the next lights, cue the obligatory shouting match & fist shaking. Totally fed up with this sort of shite recently, so i'm all for anything which puts a bit more space between my arse & the drag-race going on behind it, in a safe & orderly fashion of course - i'm not talking about slaloming through pedestrians at 20mph whilst on the phone, although i'm sure this probably does happen & is the reason rlj-ing is so frowned upon.

Besides - as a fairly small guy, say around 160kg + 10kg of bike = ~170kg, I weigh less than many runners I see crossing pedestrian crossings at roughly the same speed I would cycle through at, so I feel cyclists have far more in common with pedestrians than road vehicles & it's an unfortunate set of circumstances i.e. the fact there are very few safe, useable cycle lanes in this country a'la Holland etc. that we're even on the road in the first place.

Evil Laugh

Try cycling through Dalston. Cross roads are like a game of Russian roulette with iPod wearing, charge riding graduate media job types and wannabe cycle couriers flying at you from all red lighted directions. Nearly been hit at full speed going through a green many times while both riding and driving.

I do fear that it's only a matter of time before one of these idiots gets killed by a perfectly innocent and responsible driver, if it hasn't happened already.

Headhuunter

mcj78 wrote:

[quote="Headhuunter"
As far as I'm concerned it's often safer to carefully RLJ than it is to sit at the red light and risk being left hooked as you set off or get caught up in the jostling between drivers as they accelerate away from the lights. Busy junctionsare possibly the most dangerous places to be for cyclists.

Crossing carefully on red (just as peds do) means you get ahead of all the traffic at a junction and position youself in a clear, visible place on the road as it approaches from behind once the lights have gone green (assuming car traffic is even going as fast as cycle traffic)...

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, countless times i've been almost taken out by inconsiderate wankers desperate to get through the next set of lights before they change - this morning it happened again, I filtered to the front of the traffic queue & waited for the lights to change, set off on green & got up to about 23mph holding primary position in the lane approaching a corner when some clown decides to overtake me, in the same lane, halfway round the corner, in order to beat the next set of lights - he then realizes he can't so pulls into the left (filter) lane & undertakes me at the last second before the next lights, cue the obligatory shouting match & fist shaking. Totally fed up with this sort of shite recently, so i'm all for anything which puts a bit more space between my ars* & the drag-race going on behind it, in a safe & orderly fashion of course - i'm not talking about slaloming through pedestrians at 20mph whilst on the phone, although i'm sure this probably does happen & is the reason rlj-ing is so frowned upon.

Besides - as a fairly small guy, say around 160kg + 10kg of bike = ~170kg, I weigh less than many runners I see crossing pedestrian crossings at roughly the same speed I would cycle through at, so I feel cyclists have far more in common with pedestrians than road vehicles & it's an unfortunate set of circumstances i.e. the fact there are very few safe, useable cycle lanes in this country a'la Holland etc. that we're even on the road in the first place.[/quote]

Exactly. Slow crossing through reds is safer than waiting for whacky races that follow green lights. What we really need is designated filter lights for cyclists at major junctions. Forget all this fannying around with pointless strips of green paint in the gutter (AKA "cycle lanes"), let's address the real problem - dangerous, complex junctions designed for cars with little or no concession to people on foot or on bikes. Until this is properly addressed I will do what is safest for me.

However I think you may have made a mistake with your weight. If you really weigh 160kg you are most definitely not a small guy! You weigh twice as much as me and I'm 6'3" and not excessively skinny...