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Surely the nail in the coffin for C2W

petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
edited July 2011 in The bottom bracket
http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/v ... ikes-31162

Whenever this comes into force will people still bother to use the scheme? I doubt the admin/hassle is worth the saving.

Apart from a very small saving the only benefit I can see is that you kind of get 12 months interest free credit, but not really cos you have a lump sum to pay at the end.

Posts

  • peter101cyclepeter101cycle Posts: 298
    Probably not worth it now, also considering the limitations on what you can buy and where.
    Summer - Dolan Tuono with Sram Force and Dura-Ace 7850 CL Carbon wheels
    Winter - old faithful Ribble winter bike
    SugarSync cloud storage referral link (better than DropBox atm imho) https://www.sugarsync.com/referral?rf=mzo2tcrhm5gn
  • -spider--spider- Posts: 2,548
    The tax office didn't like it so it was bound to fail sooner or later.
    -Spider-
  • Sirius631Sirius631 Posts: 991
    Given what good it could have done, and probable original aims, I can't help but feel that it was a bit of a failure. It wasn't policed so was open to general abuse by people buying bikes for their kids, or high spec bikes that would never see a commute. I hate to think of the number of bikes that were bought with good intensions, only to sit at the back of the garden shed. I would feel happier if the scheme actually lead to a good number of new people taking up cycle commuting, but I feel that increased cycle facilities and the diabolical traffic in city centres have played a more significant role.

    The government and local councils never really got employers on board to increase the number of those commuting by bike. There was no pressure to improve workplace cycle storage, to provide showers, changing rooms or drying facilities, nor give training to new and nervous riders. The organisations that did provide these did so of their own accord, havingworked out that it would improve staff retension and reduce illness, and reduce the strain on parking space.

    So what now? Will this lead to a new ice age in cycle sales, with more independant shops shutting up?
    To err is human, but to make a real balls up takes a super computer.
  • ZachariahZachariah Posts: 782
    Another bad vibe to watch out for: Working Family Tax Credits treat it as a benefit in kind, and you get reduced payments the year after to make up the difference. There is essentially no incentive to use it now, apart from the convenience of a year's interest-free payments.
  • alan_shermanalan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    It has been going since the final payment issue. The result will be a rise in prices of bikes, less new bikes being bought, and yes maybe a few shops will struggle to sell new bike because of it.

    However on the good side shops will get a bit more workshop money as people fix their existing bike rather than just go and buy a new one.

    I wish the scheme would just be stopped rather than tweaked out of existence though. Look at all the bureaucracy involved in another rule change - it all costs money somewhere for someone to do the changes!

    And you can still get a perfectly good bike to commute on for £300 so it won't stop people from commuting to work if they want to.
  • CressersCressers Posts: 1,329
    I think that the availability of the C2W actually inflated bike prices.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    I never got the VAT discount anyway and it still worked for me. Only reason I won't get a bike on the scheme this year is that I've bought 3 on the scheme already!

    Never had any limitations on what I could buy and where and the discounts were substantial and still are.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • SickAsAParrotSickAsAParrot Posts: 212
    Under the Cycle to Work Scheme employers purchase bicycles and safety equipment and provide them to employees. Where this has been done under a salary sacrifice arrangement, the effect of the judgment is that employers must account for output tax based on the value of the salary foregone by the employee in exchange for the hire or loan of a bicycle.

    Affected businesses should apply this treatment from 1 January 2012. Employers can continue to recover VAT on the purchase of the bicycle and associated equipment.

    Employers who have provided bicycles under deduction from salary arrangements are unaffected by the judgment as payments received from employees have always been subject to VAT and will continue to be so.

    VAT remains due when a bicycle is disposed of and its value should normally be based on the price of an identical or similar item, taking into account the age and condition etc.

    So it's changed how exactly? Me no comprende lawspeak
  • mask of sanitymask of sanity Posts: 610
    I always thought it was a weird scheme to get people cycling. From what I can tell people aren't bothered about the cost of cycling (most people are able to comprehend that the savings they would make on fuel would offset the cost of buying a BSO) but are put off by the 'danger', exposure to weather and the requirement for physical exertion, ironic seeing as these are the main things that attract me to cycling.
  • petemadocpetemadoc Posts: 2,667
    mask of sanity wrote:
    I always thought it was a weird scheme to get people cycling. From what I can tell people aren't bothered about the cost of cycling (most people are able to comprehend that the savings they would make on fuel would offset the cost of buying a BSO) but are put off by the 'danger', exposure to weather and the requirement for physical exertion, ironic seeing as these are the main things that attract me to cycling.

    Too true

    On the subject of getting more people to cycle to work the focus should be on making roads a safer place and changing the attitude of motorists. How is so different on the continent?

    I'm currently trying to encourage a female employee to cycle to work and get me wife to do more cycling. The employee is scared of any main road and cycles on the pavement, to her credit she cycles nearly every day now. My wife rides a road bike on the road but comes back from every ride with stories about bad motorists scaring the begeebies out of her.

    We may be confident cyclists who can hold their road position and tackle the traffic but it's not easy for people who are new to it all.

    I've just returned from Belgium and the difference is staggering. Cars always, and I mean always give way and wait for you and there are cycle lanes on most roads. Guess what, everyone rides their bikes, young, old, male, female. I saw one old guy with a crate of beer strapped to his panniers.
  • bearfraserbearfraser Posts: 435
    Suprise the good old government is screwing the public again, or is it the EU ??
  • mask of sanitymask of sanity Posts: 610
    PeteMadoc wrote:
    I've just returned from Belgium and the difference is staggering. Cars always, and I mean always give way and wait for you and there are cycle lanes on most roads. Guess what, everyone rides their bikes, young, old, male, female. I saw one old guy with a crate of beer strapped to his panniers.
    I toured in France last year and I still can't believe the difference in attitude they have towards cyclists on the continent! It's really rather humbling!

    At one point I got separated from my mates on a pretty big roundabout so I figured I would be stuck there for ages. But an artic driver spotted it and stopped half way round the roundabout to let me go. It took me a few seconds to realise he was letting me go. Would never get that with a car in the UK let alone an artic.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    mask of sanity wrote:
    I always thought it was a weird scheme to get people cycling. From what I can tell people aren't bothered about the cost of cycling (most people are able to comprehend that the savings they would make on fuel would offset the cost of buying a BSO) but are put off by the 'danger', exposure to weather and the requirement for physical exertion, ironic seeing as these are the main things that attract me to cycling.

    I got into cycling again because of the scheme. I decided if our company ran the scheme, I'd get a bike. If it didn't, I wouldn't. It did. I have since bought 3 bikes on the scheme and cycled 10,000 miles last year alone.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • CiBCiB Posts: 6,098
    mask of sanity wrote:
    I toured in France last year and I still can't believe the difference in attitude they have towards cyclists on the continent! It's really rather humbling!

    At one point I got separated from my mates on a pretty big roundabout so I figured I would be stuck there for ages. But an artic driver spotted it and stopped half way round the roundabout to let me go. It took me a few seconds to realise he was letting me go. Would never get that with a car in the UK let alone an artic.
    Normally it's not worth picking up minor points like this, but this morning on my commute in I got to a busy roundabout with the usual endless stream of traffic coming from my left so I unclipped, ready for a long wait. I'd just got the foot out and looked up to see a Volvo stopped on the roundabout, queue of traffic behind him, gesturing me out. What a fine fellow. It does happen, granted it's a rare and beautiful thing when it does but it's not the first time. Maybe things are changing slowly here.
  • One Man And His BikeOne Man And His Bike Posts: 661
    mask of sanity wrote:
    At one point I got separated from my mates on a pretty big roundabout so I figured I would be stuck there for ages. But an artic driver spotted it and stopped half way round the roundabout to let me go. It took me a few seconds to realise he was letting me go. Would never get that with a car in the UK let alone an artic.

    Illegal but very kind, lucky no one smashed into his censored I guess?

    It's correct more needs to be done about the state of the roads and how friendly they are to cyclist but incentives like this should carry on and not be messed with if they are shown to be helping people get on bikes and indeed use them to ride to work. Every pebble thrown into a pond creates ripples, the more ripples the better where this is concerned I feel.
    http://www.onemanandhisbike.co.uk
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    CiB wrote:
    mask of sanity wrote:
    I toured in France last year and I still can't believe the difference in attitude they have towards cyclists on the continent! It's really rather humbling!

    At one point I got separated from my mates on a pretty big roundabout so I figured I would be stuck there for ages. But an artic driver spotted it and stopped half way round the roundabout to let me go. It took me a few seconds to realise he was letting me go. Would never get that with a car in the UK let alone an artic.
    Normally it's not worth picking up minor points like this, but this morning on my commute in I got to a busy roundabout with the usual endless stream of traffic coming from my left so I unclipped, ready for a long wait. I'd just got the foot out and looked up to see a Volvo stopped on the roundabout, queue of traffic behind him, gesturing me out. What a fine fellow. It does happen, granted it's a rare and beautiful thing when it does but it's not the first time. Maybe things are changing slowly here.

    And strangely enough a bird in an oncoming car, turning left at the lights waited for me to turn right across her path. A bit pointless and counterproductive as I would have been able to follow after her without slowing much anyway but it was a nice thought :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
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