Crack in Frame- Ribble Gran Fondo

tonybanham

Hi, I am looking for some advice.

When cleaning my bike this evening I noticed a crack just above the rear mech drop out. I bought the frame in October of last year, I am sure this has just appeared as I clean the bike a least once a week, no crashes and just normal riding of 80-100 miles per week. I noticed there was a similar thread a few weeks ago but I do not know what the outcome.



I have just emailed Ribble for their reaction- I feel this is serious and maybe terminal & not just a crack in the paint, any thoughts & advice would be gratefully accepted as I have a 100 mile ride at the weekend is this safe?

Many Thanks in advance.

gkerr4

i'mnot expert - but it "could" just be paint.

there will be an aluminium lug in there and this could be a border between carbon tube and aluminium dropout.

i say 'could'

it 'could' easily have expired!

('expired' was the word Specialized used yesterday when I sent them pictures of the crack in the seattube of my s-works roubaix!)

rolf_f

Tonybanham wrote:

When cleaning my bike this evening I noticed a crack just above the rear mech drop out. I bought the frame in October of last year, I am sure this has just appeared as I clean the bike a least once a week, no crashes and just normal riding of 80-100 miles per week. I noticed there was a similar thread a few weeks ago but I do not know what the outcome.

That'll be my thread! Crack has stayed put (for a good few hundred miles) though there is now a very small vertical one on the non driveside dropout as well. I'll be interested in what response you get as I haven't bothered contacting Ribble yet (though I may do just to log it incase it fails in the future and they say the frame is out of guarantee!). Mine is pretty much exactly the same age as yours.

FWIW I think the paint on these frames is very brittle. They do chip easily so I'm inclinded to believe that is the problem for now.

tonybanham

Many thanks for the update- no response as yet from Ribble. I will be away on holiday for a week or so I will have to chase them when I get back but I will keep you informed. Unfortunately no cycling involved!

What concerns me to crack the paint there would have had to be some movement in the joint- possibly an indication to the start of a failure- I may be wrong but just aesthetically it don't look great!

nferrar

Certainly worth pursuing with Ribble but paint crack is entirely feasible. Do you take the rear wheel off much? Even if no then it's an area that probably flexes more than most, and given carbon and aluminium will behave differently it's understandable a layer of paint over the top of two materials moving different amounts would crack. I wouldn't be overly happy if it were my frame though and short of you removing the paint there's not much more you can do to check - whether that's a more palatable option than stripping the bike and returning the frame to Ribble for inspection is up to you.

rolf_f

Tonybanham wrote:

Many thanks for the update- no response as yet from Ribble. I will be away on holiday for a week or so I will have to chase them when I get back but I will keep you informed. Unfortunately no cycling involved!

What concerns me to crack the paint there would have had to be some movement in the joint- possibly an indication to the start of a failure- I may be wrong but just aesthetically it don't look great!

Assuming it does stabilise, I'll probably just fill the crack with white enamel. I've already messed up the paint on the non driveside dropout by overtightening the QR and the lower of those annoying ribs at the end of the chainstays are both scuffed due to removing wheels (not much clearance between the skewer end and the mech on Campag).

But mine is a commuter and second bike rather than my ultimate pride and joy so I am a little less wound up about this sort of thing than I would be if it was my number one bike!

tonybanham

Again many thanks for the advice-

If the crack is just cosmetic it had crossed my mind to fill, but it could just open up again.
I had my old terry Dolan bike for 12 years with no problems at all- now a crack in the new one after 10 months not sure if I can ever trust the back end now.

tonybanham

Update- just spoken with Ribble- say email & photo have been passed on to the mechanics to check and they will be in touch but feel it may be cosmetic- not convinced by the guy on the phone has was a little vague.

Looks as this will have to wait until I get back of holiday- probably have a drive over with the bike when I return!

Monty Dog

Somebody asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding the same model of frame and suspect it's down to too-thick paint and dissimilar materials. The frame is constructed with aluminium drop-outs sleeved and bonded into the chainstay - there is significant material overlap and even if the carbon was cracked all the way around, the strength is provided by the aluminium. Carry-on riding would be my advice.

rolf_f

Monty Dog wrote:

Somebody asked the same question a couple of weeks ago regarding the same model of frame and suspect it's down to too-thick paint and dissimilar materials. The frame is constructed with aluminium drop-outs sleeved and bonded into the chainstay - there is significant material overlap and even if the carbon was cracked all the way around, the strength is provided by the aluminium. Carry-on riding would be my advice.

Rolf F wrote:

Tonybanham wrote:

When cleaning my bike this evening I noticed a crack just above the rear mech drop out. I bought the frame in October of last year, I am sure this has just appeared as I clean the bike a least once a week, no crashes and just normal riding of 80-100 miles per week. I noticed there was a similar thread a few weeks ago but I do not know what the outcome.

That'll be my thread! Crack has stayed put (for a good few hundred miles) though there is now a very small vertical one on the non driveside dropout as well. I'll be interested in what response you get as I haven't bothered contacting Ribble yet (though I may do just to log it incase it fails in the future and they say the frame is out of guarantee!). Mine is pretty much exactly the same age as yours.

FWIW I think the paint on these frames is very brittle. They do chip easily so I'm inclinded to believe that is the problem for now.

marr967

This was my replie from ribble re cracking of frame.My frame is going back next week to be repaird.


Hello
There has been some cosmetic cracking of the paint with this particular batch of frames in the area you have photographed, we are confident that it is not structural so if you are happy to keep on using the bike for the rest of the summer and keep us informed if anything develops.
We can then arrange to have the bike collected in the Autumn and have the paint work re-finished.

tonybanham

Also posted this information in similar thread- got almost the same reply from Ribble, it does appear there are problems with the frames as a few people affected by this.

Mine has been with them just over 2 weeks now, said would take 3-4 weeks as frame sent back to Deda in Italy. When I get the frame back I will update.

I should have waited a few weeks before sending the frame back- now we have some good weather!

marr967

Yip the good wether has come at last.Unfortunatly im of to Majorca next week for a bit of cycling so i will just have to put up with the weather out there lol

I will keep you up to date as to the progres of my frame as well

tonybanham

Quick Update: Ribble have replaced the Gran Fondo with a new one . No reason given from them just a shiny new frame- v happy as this was my preferred outcome & to be fair to Ribble they have been very good in handling the problem.

Put the bike back together tonight all seems fine so hopefully I can get out for a test ride this weekend.

marr967

Thats good news for you .My frame has now been with them for 6 weeks and when i contacted them about this they say i have to do everything through emailing returens .Not a happy chapy

tonybanham

I must have got lucky- I dropped off my cracked frame at their showroom the guy who booked it in said 'call & check' after 3 weeks to see how things are progressing. So initially after several emails asking for updates/progress I 'called' on the mail order phone line, the chap said the returns dept did not have a direct phone number! Anyway I explained I had been asked to phone in- so the chap went & asked the returns people about my frame- they confirmed that it was ready for dispatch. I said I would collect in person so as to speed up the process & to ensure the frame was not damaged in transit. When I turned up the guy said the frame was not ready & needed prepping, chasing BB etc & this could take a day or so, I thought this was odd as my frame was already prepped - anyhow after explaining I had told them we had was to collect & I had made a special journey they had everything done in 1/2 an hour or so & I had a brand new frame!
I was expecting to get the resprayed old frame not a new one, there was no explanation from Ribble for this but who am I to argue with them!

I understand that not everyone can visit the showroom in person but it did help me. Hope you get your frame returned soon.

marr967

I done the same went down from dundee to hand in my frame and was asked to phone in 4 weeks .Like you after calling was told that i would have to email the returns department done that 2 days ago still no reply .I spend quite a bit of money with them every year .Just a pitty there aftersales lets them down .

t5nel

Add me to the list of the afflicted

Mine looks pretty minor ATM but is exactly the same place.

Have mailed Ribble. In all fairness they replied same day and said that I could get it refinished. Next availability is January.

Not sure if it is worth the wait. Also I would be interested to know if the problem will just 'resurface' ( ) 1000 miles after a new paint job. Has anyone actually had a refinished fram back yet???

Tim

Tryfanbach

Hi,

I have a Gran Frondo ( Purchased Nov 2010)

I've noticed the same crack on my frame this evening after coming across this forum thread.

Can I ask what the latest reply from Ribble is please?

Thanks

rake

have you been using a torque wrench again?

humphers

Very interesting.
I also own a Gran Fondo and have done for a year and I also have a crack exactly the same shape in exactly the same place after having done a very similar amount of miles.
I have just sent Ribble an e-mail (today) with photos and a letter from my LBS showing the crack and the LBS' view that the frame is broken/cracked and a new frame is needed.
It must be a recurrent problem with a particular batch of frames failing at that point after a particular period of use. I was worried it was just me and would have a fight on my hands, until I read these posts. More relieved now that others have had this problem and I will consider using this as evidence if need be.
I will keep posted with response(s) from Ribble.
Anyone else out there with the same thing?

rolf_f

humphers wrote:

Very interesting.
I also own a Gran Fondo and have done for a year and I also have a crack exactly the same shape in exactly the same place after having done a very similar amount of miles.
I have just sent Ribble an e-mail (today) with photos and a letter from my LBS showing the crack and the LBS' view that the frame is broken/cracked and a new frame is needed.
It must be a recurrent problem with a particular batch of frames failing at that point after a particular period of use. I was worried it was just me and would have a fight on my hands, until I read these posts. More relieved now that others have had this problem and I will consider using this as evidence if need be.
I will keep posted with response(s) from Ribble.
Anyone else out there with the same thing?

Yes, other people are out there with the same thing - you've just posted in a thread for that purpose and yes, it is a recurrent problem with a particular batch - as you can tell from the thread you've just posted in!

You probably wasted your time a little going to the LBS (they are probably wrong anyway - assuming your problem is the same as everyone elses, the frame is not cracked - just the paint. If you look very closely at the crack - easier if you take a pic of it - you will probably see that the crack has a flat bottom - that shows that the paint has cracked rather than the frame). As long as it is in guarantee (ie less than two years old and you the original owner), Ribble will generally offer a replacement frame (though some people have chosen to keep their original frame and, tbh, part of me wishes I had done so too) so you shouldn't need to worry. The main issue is that it can take a while to get a replacement. Also, you may be lucky and get one of the new frames though I got one of the old ones with the dropouts repainted so the cracks don't show if they reappear!

humphers

Thanks Rolf F. I'm hoping that that is the case. I'm curently awaiting Ribble collecting the bike and they say that they will do so as soon as possible.
Re the thread - since I had read the posts contributed by other people who had the same problem (ie those that we know of via the thread), I was really meaning if there were any others, apart from those who had already contributed and who may read the thread without contributing (yet), who had experienced the same thing. I think I did say in my post, anyway, that I was relieved that there were others who have had this problem and it wasn't just me.

dermotneafcy

I find all the above posts interesting, I too have the exact same problem with my 2011 Gran Fondo, Ribble currently have my Gran Fondo but will not replace the frame and are insisting on sending the frame back to Deda Italy to have it repainted. They have also said that I can only have the dropouts repainted black. I have insisted it be repainted white.
Surely the cost of shipping to Italy and back plus labour and paint cannot be more financially viable than just replacing the frame. They say it will take about a month .
Initially they asked if I wanted to wait until the end of the season so I can continue using the bike and have the repair done at a more "convenient" time.
Does anyone think they are hoping I will think its more bother than its worth and forget about it and that they have no intention of shipping a frame back to Italy for a respray?
By the way I contacted carbon bike solutions in Derby who said if they resprayed the frame, rubbing it down, prepping etc. it would cost almost as much as the cost of buying a new frame and it wouldn't be worth it if I was paying for it myself.

dermotneafcy

Looking at these posts, the courier service from Ribble to Italy must be busy sending all these frames to Deda for resprays!

rolf_f

dermotneafcy wrote:

Initially they asked if I wanted to wait until the end of the season so I can continue using the bike and have the repair done at a more "convenient" time.
Does anyone think they are hoping I will think its more bother than its worth and forget about it and that they have no intention of shipping a frame back to Italy for a respray?

Maybe you need to try to be a bit less cynical in the world and fight it less hard. You have a two year guarantee on the frame so Ribble are just telling you that they don't mind if you wait til it suits you to sort the problem rather than doing it at the beginning of the season. I left mine for about 8 months before sending it back in late Autumn 2011. I think if the frame goes back to Italy you will get a new one - I did anyway; I think they have probably just done up a batch of frames with the dropouts repainted. If you insist on the dropouts being white then the issue might happen again. The reason they paint them black is that it won't show if it happens again. There is less filler over the joint of my replacement frame though. You can insist as much as you like that they paint it all white but if they do it will be because they are being nice - not because they have to.

You can just carefully fill the cracks with white paint. I think in hindsight I'd have rather done that but it's marginal.

Only an idiot would think that Ribble have no intention of shipping the frame back to Italy. There is enough evidence on here that they do for it to be pretty obviously the truth and it is Dedaccai that are footing the bill anyway.

mmacavity

http://www.pegoretticicli.com/eng/faq.htm#a2
" we do not think it very professional to join a drop out with one tube or a monostay by a 6mm bolt and we guarantee that you will lose rear triangle rigidity."

Stylo321

Hi,
I have the same issue on a 1 yr old GF. When I contacted Ribble the reply was along the lines of the frame was ok and this was due to the dissimilar materials so was just a crack in the paint, which sort of makes sense.
I didn't get an offer of a respray! Or a new frame. Did you guys push the point harder or did they offer a respray first time.
What should I tell them to get them to offer me a respray?

To be honest I bought the bike Jan 2012 and having read this thread and others it seems the problem has been around since 2010, so I am disappointed that the problem frames were still being sent out in 2012.

Is the general consensus that this is only a cosmetic issue or do you think it is structural?

Even if it is only cosmetic, if I ever want to sell the bike this may affect the resale value. ( I love the bike by the way so probably won't sell ever!)
I also want to point out that in all my dealings with Ribble, I have always had punctual delivery/and polite service.

dermotneafcy

I took my Gran Fondo back in February 2013 with the same crack in the paintwork bought in Aug. 2011, so still under the 2 year warranty, they would not replace the frame but said they would re-paint the drop outs black not the original white. I told them I did not want them painting Black so they sent it to Deddaciai in Italy to be resprayed in white. After 3 months the frame is ready to be shipped back only they have resprayed the dropouts Black!
I have rejected the repair as the colour scheme of the frame set is not as original and doesn't match.
Still waiting for a response if no answer this week, taking it to small claims court.

rolf_f

Stylo321 wrote:

Hi,
I have the same issue on a 1 yr old GF. When I contacted Ribble the reply was along the lines of the frame was ok and this was due to the dissimilar materials so was just a crack in the paint, which sort of makes sense.
I didn't get an offer of a respray! Or a new frame. Did you guys push the point harder or did they offer a respray first time.
What should I tell them to get them to offer me a respray?

In my case they were very keen to see the bike and advised me to get it changed even though I was to some degree reluctant - the line being better safe than sorry. What I think I got was a frame of the same sort of age as mine (I just checked - the numbers are only 74 apart!). The excess filler had clearly been removed by hand (the surface now being a bit uneven) and the dropout area quite neatly resprayed in black and blended into the original finish. A new frame on display in the shop at the time (back end of 2011) clearly had the dropouts done with less filler so I think I was getting an old stock frame. It's OK but with hindsight maybe I'd have been fine to just keep the old frame and carefully fill the cracks with white paint. If you want it redone, do a search on here and find several threads where they did frame swaps and point out the precedent and see what they say. I suspect now they no longer have the old stock frames which would have had to be modified to send out anyway so maybe this is why they aren't so helpful now!

dermotneafcy wrote:

I took my Gran Fondo back in February 2013 with the same crack in the paintwork bought in Aug. 2011, so still under the 2 year warranty, they would not replace the frame but said they would re-paint the drop outs black not the original white. I told them I did not want them painting Black so they sent it to Deddaciai in Italy to be resprayed in white. After 3 months the frame is ready to be shipped back only they have resprayed the dropouts Black!
I have rejected the repair as the colour scheme of the frame set is not as original and doesn't match.
Still waiting for a response if no answer this week, taking it to small claims court.

This isn't very likely to work. They won't paint the dropouts white as the problem would be likely to reappear (I can see a crack in my new frames dropouts on the drive side - only I can't see it because it is black!). What they have done will not match your old finish but it will match the new finish. Now all Gran Fondos have black dropouts. See below showing the current design and my repainted one. There's hardly much difference. I really can't see why a small claims court would give you much shrift given that what they'd done is paint it to match the latest design. Would you really not have bought the bike in the first place if it had had black dropouts?