How much travel? Beginner to full suspension

h34e0f

I've always ridden HT frames, but I'm moving a lot more into Enduro/harder trails. I'm therefore looking into a nice, shiny new AM. However, as I've always had low-travel HT bikes, I'm not sure what I should go for.

Ideally I'd like a 160mm all round to save upgrading in the future when softer DH and such come a viable option, however I'm thinking this may be too much for just starting out with full suspension. Is this the case?

Is there any other advice out there for someone making the change?

1mancity2

Moving from H/T to F/S is a little strange at first but you soon get used to it, your very similar to myself I rode H/T 100mm and 140mm and have started doing more AM stuff and now I have a Giant reign which is brilliant.

You may find the forks a bit more flexi than your 100mm but thats normal and the backend will feel strange but the confidence you get when hitting drop offs, jumps etc is well worth the effort.

Go for it, what bike you looking at our you not got any in mind as yet?

Chunkers1980

If you don't already know this then do you know why you want one?

More travel is not an upgrade.

.blitz

The more travel you have the less you have to worry about what's under your tyres but my personal opinion is that unless it is very well controlled, the changes in geometry bought about by the action of the suspension can introduce problems that wouldn't occur on a shorter travel or HT bike.

h34e0f

I'm struggling for grip on the back end with my HT, and it's also preventing me from hitting larger drops and more technical trail sections.

I'm planning a few test rides over the next few weeks, and have of course tested FS bikes in the past. Obviously I wouldn't buy blindly.

All I'm trying to gather is if it's a bad idea to jump straight to a larger amount of travel, or if I should be thinking about progressing slowly, say starting with a 140 all round and moving from there.

nicklouse

there are short travel bikes that are XC bike there are also bikes that have the same travel that are big hit slopestyle/freeride bikes. there are 140mm travel AM bikes and also heavier more free ride orientated bikes with the same travel.

Travel has very little to do with anything.

h34e0f

So it's a case of simply riding as much as possible and choosing by what feels best? I know this is the most basic aspect of choosing a bike, but I thought travel had at least some significant aspect of it. For example, you wouldn't put an 8" Boxxer fork on my Genesis...

.blitz

It's good to ride a variety of bikes but sometimes you only realise what you've bought when you've ridden it for some time.

There is more suspension action in your arms and legs than any mountain bike and although my own opinion is that a 120mm SLX hardtail is enough for anything in the UK, the future looks 140mm FS-shaped and if you still want a FS bike I would start looking in this very competitive sector.

FBM.BMX

h34e0f wrote:

I'm struggling for grip on the back end with my HT, and it's also preventing me from hitting larger drops and more technical trail sections.

Not down to bike, down to rider.

Im one of those that thinks you should learn to ride before getting a skill compensator.

it's totally down to you though.

With jumps and drops, even tech trails, having the suspension there can mask what you actually need to do. Also as mentioned above, suspension can make it harder to understand what is actually going on.

Suspension isn't designed for absorbing impacts, it's designed for maintaining traction. Your body is equipped with far more suspension than even an 8" downhill bike, learn how to use it.

Getting a full sus MAY make you immediately faster, but not necessarily more skillful. To you want it to get better at bikes or to get faster than your mates?

i'd recommend got for a hardtail with slacker angles, something that is more stable and is going to inspire more confidence on the technical aspects. Something like a ragley blue pig or on one 456 with big tyres and 120-140mm travel.

1mancity2

Like you say test ride as many as possible, try hiring one for a day and do some routes that way at least your trying it as intended.

Dirt jump bikes have 100mm travel and look what they do on them bikes but you wouldn't fly down a DH course on one.

My mate has a giant trance 120mm and he does everthing I do on my reign.

FBM.BMX

1mancity2 wrote:

Dirt jump bikes have 100mm travel and look what they do on them bikes but you wouldn't fly down a DH course on one.

That's due to unstable geometry, stiff suspension and narrow, slick tyres.

Briggo

1mancity2 wrote:

Like you say test ride as many as possible, try hiring one for a day and do some routes that way at least your trying it as intended.

.

Try hiring what though, he doesn't know what he wants and if you don't know then hiring lots of bikes at trail centres can get expensive not to mention trail centres usually only have a handful of different models so unless you can travel around to the various ones...

You can't always try out bikes or if you can its just round the LBS carpark, so unless you got lots of mates with different bikes or can get to a demo day which are few and far between this isn't usually an option.

Like blitz says its not until you really start riding the bike i.e. shifting it down a hill or struggling up one, that you'll know how it really performs.

So all you then got is peoples opinions/reviews, I do love it when people suggest ride as many bikes as possible when the majority of the time it isn't feasable or doesnt give a good indication of how a bike really performs.

Then there is the argument that would the average rider ever really feel the difference between various high rated bikes, so in that case do they need to try them out as they'll never really know, apart from the fit of course

h34e0f

Lots of sense written here.

My head angle is pretty slack to begin with, but I can pick up a 120/130 fork pretty cheaply which would help somewhat, and fatter tyres would definitely be a bonus.

I guess I'll have to just give up with trying to have a complete all-rounder and maybe get a cheap road bike and rebuild the Core... For now.

.blitz

h34e0f wrote:

My head angle is pretty slack to begin with, but I can pick up a 120/130 fork pretty cheaply which would help somewhat, and fatter tyres would definitely be a bonus.

What about a U-turn fork? Adjustable from 95-140mm wind it down for the climbs and let it out for the descents.

Maxxis Ardents have tall flexible sidewalls, offer plenty of cushioning and can take the hits.

h34e0f

.blitz wrote:

h34e0f wrote:

My head angle is pretty slack to begin with, but I can pick up a 120/130 fork pretty cheaply which would help somewhat, and fatter tyres would definitely be a bonus.

What about a U-turn fork? Adjustable from 95-140mm wind it down for the climbs and let it out for the descents.

Maxxis Ardents have tall flexible sidewalls, offer plenty of cushioning and can take the hits.

I was looking into a U Turn fork some time ago. My friend has the 100-130 version on his 2009 Core and it's fantastic. I emailed Genesis at the time and they warned that 140 was the absolute maximum and they recommended 120mm. But yes if I were to upgrade I wouldn't consider anything but an adjustable - as it's the only real way to see the difference in an every-day environment.

You can also pick up a Rev fork fairly cheap on the second hand market.

My main issue with upgrading my current bike (which I would have done a long time ago else) is the fact that It's fantastic for XC and road use, and I'm not keen on compromising that.

.blitz

h34e0f wrote:

You can also pick up a Rev fork fairly cheap on the second hand market.

Not the stiffest fork in the world tbh you will notice it if you are hitting drops and jumps

h34e0f

.blitz wrote:

h34e0f wrote:

You can also pick up a Rev fork fairly cheap on the second hand market.

Not the stiffest fork in the world you will notice it if you are hitting drops and jumps

The Revelation is the most recommended amongst those I've asked, and seems to be the most accessible adjustable travel fork around, or am I wrong?

.blitz

The suspension action is absolutely top-drawer it is possible to set it up pretty much any way you please but the chassis is not the stiffest. Std QR is like a noodle, thru-axle better but basically it is a sophisticated trail fork for people who use a bit of finesse.

1mancity2

.blitz wrote:

h34e0f wrote:

You can also pick up a Rev fork fairly cheap on the second hand market.

Not the stiffest fork in the world tbh you will notice it if you are hitting drops and jumps

What would be a good alternative? I have Revs q/r and they seem pretty good but then I can't compare them against anything.

h34e0f

.blitz wrote:

The suspension action is absolutely top-drawer it is possible to set it up pretty much any way you please but the chassis is not the stiffest. Std QR is like a noodle, thru-axle better but basically it is a sophisticated trail fork for people who use a bit of finesse.

Yeah, but changing to a thru-axle would be costly, but trying to find a decent adjustable fork with QR is a pain.........

FBM.BMX

What's the HA angle on the genisis? I thought it was 69.5*?

h34e0f

70° for the 2011 frame. I assume it was the same with the 2010 as the frame looks to have not been changed.

nicklouse

69 on the 2010 but how it is measured would be good to know.

h34e0f

nicklouse wrote:

69 on the 2010 but how it is measured would be good to know.

Care to embellish on that point?

FBM.BMX

So the core is far from slack then.

120mm currently? Even going to 140 will only slacken it out by ~ 0.8*. It'll bring it to a better point, but not modern, confidence inspiring slack.

h34e0f

FBM.BMX wrote:

So the core is far from slack then.

120mm currently? Even going to 140 will only slacken it out by ~ 0.8*. It'll bring it to a better point, but not modern, confidence inspiring slack.

100mm Current. What sort of figure do I need to be looking at for 'proper' slack then?

nicklouse

h34e0f wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

69 on the 2010 but how it is measured would be good to know.

Care to embellish on that point?

how? do they measure at sag? at a fixed fork length or at full travel?

companies have a whole shed full of ways of measuring things.

h34e0f

nicklouse wrote:

h34e0f wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

69 on the 2010 but how it is measured would be good to know.

Care to embellish on that point?

how? do they measure at sag? at a fixed fork length or at full travel?

companies have a whole shed full of ways of measuring things.

Ah I see.

Well I'm massively torn at the moment. I really don't want to touch my Core as it is a simply fantastic road/XC/distance bike. So the only option is to get a new bike for real riding. But to me it just seems like a sidestep getting another HT...

Chunkers1980

What's real riding if this is not "road/XC/distance bike"

h34e0f

Chunkers1980 wrote:

What's real riding if this is not "road/XC/distance bike"

Trails, and tougher DH sections.

Shaggy_Dog

Before you take the plunge, try fitting a pair of fat tyres, wide bar and short stem, you'd be amazed at the difference it makes. It'll cost you about £100 and it's stuff that you can easily transfer to a full suss if you decide you really want to go for it.