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Snow on the road...

Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 8,191
edited August 2011 in The bottom bracket
Jon Snow on why there are so many cyclist deaths.

http://www.channel4.com/news/why-are-mo ... ains-roads
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.

Posts

  • It looks like the lorry driver has come up with a fairly unoriginall way of stopping cyclists passing on the inside. At 3:18, he appears to have parked in the cycle lane, completely blocking it.
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,433
    These vehicles are so big that they tend to have to swing right before swinging left to go round the corner. The unsuspecting cyclist scoots through the widening gap and is then caught as the lorry changes course.

    Whose fault is that then ??!!? :roll:
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • geoff_ssgeoff_ss Posts: 1,234
    MattC59 wrote:
    These vehicles are so big that they tend to have to swing right before swinging left to go round the corner. The unsuspecting cyclist scoots through the widening gap and is then caught as the lorry changes course.

    Whose fault is that then ??!!? :roll:

    Even in a car I'm wary of using the RH lane on a roundabout when a big lorry is in the LH one. Those trailers don't follow the same turning arc as the tractor unit.

    Fortunately, I don't have to ride on busy roads very often these days but when I did I preferred to overtake stationary traffic on the off-side.
    Old cyclists never die; they just fit smaller chainrings ... and pedal faster
  • pauldavidpauldavid Posts: 440
    MattC59 wrote:
    These vehicles are so big that they tend to have to swing right before swinging left to go round the corner. The unsuspecting cyclist scoots through the widening gap and is then caught as the lorry changes course.

    Whose fault is that then ??!!? :roll:

    If the cyclist gets caught in that closing gap, it is categorically the cyclists fault assuming the driver has used his indicator.

    We all know that lorries do this, so to put yourself in that position is not just silly it's downright dangerous.

    Accidents do happen, but you've got to be sensible enough to look after yourself to minimise the possibilities of being involved in one.

    I've seen this from both sides, as a driver I've encountered cyclists who absolutely will die one day on a ride as they are so reckless with their own lives it's untrue and hide in the enormous blind spot alongside your trailer. But I've also seen drivers who should never have passed a HGV test.

    Although I hate to admit it as a cyclist, there are more cyclist's that are reckless with their lives than bad lorry drivers. No doubt this will be an unpopular opinion but it is the truth.
  • AndyRubioAndyRubio Posts: 880
    Agreed, lots of cyclists on my commute that make me embarrassed to be on a bike. If I see a potential for injury, I stop, ride on pavement, wait for pelican crossing etc Whatever it takes. Knowing that it's my right of way is less important that the risk of ending up smooshed.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    There's a lot of bad cycling when it comes to HGVs, but I think a large amount of it is to do with a lack education, rather than willingly bad cycling.

    It's easy for relatively keen cyclists who hang out on forums to say that we all know lorries do this, but for the average joe, who's happened to pick up a bike as a way of getting around, that's not the case.

    What could be helpful is more sign-age on the rear of lorries explaining the blindspots and not to undertake.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • pedylanpedylan Posts: 775
    Quite a number of truck companies have good signage on the back of trailers specifically directed at cyclists. Awareness training for HGV's and PSV's should include the possibility that cyclists might put themselves between the truck and the kerb. Better mirrors have also been touted as a solution.

    I remember seeing signage on the back of HGV trailers and on rear mudflaps which read, on the offside "overtaking side" and "suicide" on the nearside. That would seem graphic enough.
    Where the neon madmen climb
  • guineaguinea Posts: 1,177
    Jez mon wrote:
    It's easy for relatively keen cyclists who hang out on forums to say that we all know lorries do this, but for the average joe, who's happened to pick up a bike as a way of getting around, that's not the case.

    This is the main point.

    Some people aren't that smart. They get on to a Boris bike, cycle in the cycle lane exactly as they are told, they wait at a red signal then then get killed by a lorry.

    Remember, in many cases the lorry pulled up beside a cyclist after the cyclist had stopped.

    In my opinion, if your vehicle has blind spots large enough that a person on a bicycle can disappear in them then your vehicle is not safe enough to be on the road.
  • tbctbc Posts: 40
    I saw Jon Snow out and about in London once. I was at the front of a queue of traffic at a set of lights and I heard someone behind me berating a car, effing and blinding and telling them to watch what they were doing etc. I turned around, and saw Jon Snow on a tidy hybrid bike, and as I caught his eye he rolled his eyes in that 'f****** drivers' cyclist solidarity way, so I replied with a sort of 'what can you do?' shrug. I bet the driver was mortified, I'd hate to be told off by Jon Snow.
  • mouthmouth Posts: 1,196
    guinea wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    It's easy for relatively keen cyclists who hang out on forums to say that we all know lorries do this, but for the average joe, who's happened to pick up a bike as a way of getting around, that's not the case.

    This is the main point.

    Some people aren't that smart. They get on to a Boris bike, cycle in the cycle lane exactly as they are told, they wait at a red signal then then get killed by a lorry.

    Remember, in many cases the lorry pulled up beside a cyclist after the cyclist had stopped.

    In my opinion, if your vehicle has blind spots large enough that a person on a bicycle can disappear in them then your vehicle is not safe enough to be on the road.

    Hmm, very controversial, since ALL CARS have a blind spot big enough to hide a bike in, as do ALL MOTORBIKES and I dare say MOST PUSH BIKES could hide another bike as well if the rider didn't take the correct precautions.

    But hey, on a positive slant, at least the roads would be clear for cyclists. Maybe we could turn cycle lanes into car lanes and vice versa? You don't have a driving license do you? This I feel is the kind of situation which calls for FORMAL EDUCATION of cyclists to be a legal requirement. The car driver, PCV/HGV driver and motorcyclist have all had it, but have you had any training whatsoever to ride your bike in the Queens Highway?
    The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
  • beverickbeverick Posts: 3,461
    Without commenting on the cause, responsibility or liability of incidents. The main reason the number of cyclists killed rose by 11% between 2009 and 2010 is that it's correcting a 'statistical blip' between 2008 and 2009 when the number fell by around 12%. Such wide variances are wholly consistent with using percentage comparison in conjunction with small samples.

    More promisingly, despite continued growth in the number of cylists on the road, the long term trend still shows a reducing trend, especially from the 10 year high in 2005.

    2000 - 127
    2001 - 138
    2002 - 130
    2003 - 114
    2004 - 134
    2005 - 148
    2006 - 146
    2007 - 136
    2008 - 115
    2009 - 104
    2010 - 111

    I forecast this year's figure to be between 105 and 110.

    Bob
  • Hats off to Cemex but cyclists surely need to take the main responsibility for their own safety. How many miles does anyone have to ride in or out of town before they realise the worthless risk of running left inside a HGV, bus etc at a junction? Seriously?
    Cycle specific training is good, but if you drive a car you surely know that it has a blind spot big enough to fit a 40-foot truck in. So what happens when drivers get on their bikes, do they forget all that? Speaking personally (and I'm not one who thinks of cycling as dangerous) cycling makes me more aware of risk, not less.
    Interesting further stat in the report 1.5% "rise in cycling" - not sure exactly what it means but at that rate I don't think we'll reach critical mass anytime soon. Sounds more like the plateau after a lungbusting climb.
    "Consider the grebe..."
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,433
    guinea wrote:
    In my opinion, if your vehicle has blind spots large enough that a person on a bicycle can disappear in them then your vehicle is not safe enough to be on the road.

    In my opinion, if you're stupid enough to cycle up the inside of any vehicle, at a junction with a left hand turn, you deserve to be subject to natural selection.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
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