Rider down - Richmond Park

toontra

On an audax yesterday (Ditchling Devil) which finished in the park around 6pm. Everything as normal, if very busy, up from Kingston Gate, but when we reached Robin Hood Gate the road was blocked by police. Several cyclists were trying to barge through the road block but were told in no uncertain terms by the WPC that the road was closed because a cyclist had crashed and was being air-lifted to hospital, and to use the footpath to get to Roehampton Gate.

Anyone know more about this?

toontra

Apparently (according to the guys in the bike hire shed at Roehampton Gate) the cyclist was carrying too much speed from the hill and went into the back of a car at the Robin Hood roundabout (or maybe the entrance to the car park just after). Went straight through the rear window and was in a pretty bad state.

I can see this resulting in even more of a clamp-down on cyclists going over 20.

london-red

I have nothing to report other than the incident seemed to be a long way beyond Robin Hood car park, going clockwise, maybe 200 yards.

Hope he or she makes a speedy recovery.

northstar

http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.c ... _hospital/

Good news.

johnny2legs

northstar wrote:

http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/9160681.UPDATE__Road_crash_cyclist_recovering_in_hospital/

Good news.

Kind of funny how they point out the rider wasn't on a "Barclays hire bike" I don't think I've ever seen one in RP

maryka

That part of the park is always a bit dodgy. More than once I've descended the hill in my lane with speed and narrowly missed a car coming the other way who decided it was a good idea to overtake slower riders on the drag and up the hill in my lane. Also seen more than my share of riders descending like the entire road was theirs to use (apexing the corners at the bottom too). And to top it off, if there's a car coming down from Pen Ponds who doesn't see or anticipate the speed of a cyclist approaching Robin Hood roundabout and turns left or across, it can be really bad. The current condition of the road doesn't help things.

Whatever the cause, hope the cyclist is ok!

SLX01

The place is best avoided on Sundays as it seems to attract idiots of all kinds from stupid cyclists, through crazy car drivers to joggers who insist on running in the road despite miles of footpaths. Chuck in a load of random wild life and dogs and its a recipie for disaster!!
Weekdays the park is a joy to cycle in but at weekends I can think of far more enjoyable rides.

roger_merriman

SLX01 wrote:

The place is best avoided on Sundays as it seems to attract idiots of all kinds from stupid cyclists, through crazy car drivers to joggers who insist on running in the road despite miles of footpaths. Chuck in a load of random wild life and dogs and its a recipie for disaster!!
Weekdays the park is a joy to cycle in but at weekends I can think of far more enjoyable rides.

Thats the crux of the issue it's a very busy park with lots of different groups, and there use of the park tends to impact others.

For the runners I can see why they would not want to use the miles of footpaths as they are by weekend chock full people having a stroll, with kids/dogs etc.

It's not a velodrome if folk want to stop to gawp at the deer or what ever, well it's a park and a busy one at that.

NWLondoner

If a cyclist is riding dangerously then the speed they are going is not the issue. To be honest I find that cyclists going at the speed limit inadvertently causes more issues.

Time after time you get impatient cars overtaking cyclists going at the speed limit (must get in front mentality) and almost causing a head on collision with oncoming cars/cyclists.


I admit you do have to be careful coming down that hill as I've have almost been caught out at the roundabout.

However, can fellow cyclists please STOP overtaking each other when going down broomfield, especially across the bloody apex of the corner!!!

Only the other week i was descending at 55kph and hugging the centre line and guess what, a thor hushovd wannabe comes screaming past on the wrong side of the road at god knows what speed.


I accept rogers comment on the deer watchers but stopping on broomfield just after you've started descending the hill is not the best of ideas!!!

NWLondoner

Maybe we should lobby the Royal parks to allow the park to remain closed (traffic free) until say 10 or 11am on a saturday or sunday?

bikergirl17

central park in new york -- one of the greatest and most used parks in the world -- is car free ALL weekend and after 7 pm on weekdays. from 10-2 pm weekdays it is limited access to cars. ironically, weekends are NOT a good time to cycle there, as pedestrians jay walk willy nilly.

can't see this happening in richmond park, as the major access is by car vs. a huge park easily reachable by foot or public transit.

the best case would be to charge a fee to motorists using the park as a short cut through-road (vs. the people legitimately there to terrify the deer).

roger_merriman

NWLondoner wrote:

Maybe we should lobby the Royal parks to allow the park to remain closed (traffic free) until say 10 or 11am on a saturday or sunday?

Think about it, 7 miles of traffic free tarmac.

now think why do people not walk on it?

yup be full of walkers, in a line spread out across the road.

maryka

Yep, mums with strollers 4 abreast, rollerbladers, etc. Bad idea to close it to car traffic.

Good idea to charge cars for using it as a cut-through though. Surely it could be set up as easily as the congestion zone in London is, just put cameras at the entrances and if you exit the park within 20 min then you get charged. If you come for an hour or two it's free.

And yes I agree that cyclists are their own worst enemy, I've been overtaken down Broomfield as well and it's damn scary. Some people are just ignorant @rseholes no matter what their mode of transport is.

Cumulonimbus

Once nearly got taken out twice by pedestrians inside a minute in Richmond Park, both times stepping out without looking - one guy was carrying a child on his back...

Think the maddest cyclist i saw was one who decided not to slow for horses crossing the road, giving the rear of the horse about 50cm. Might have looked well judged to him and horses in Richmond Park are probably quite hard to scare but if it had got spooked and bolted...

thebongolian

My simple idea for RP is to make car traffic clockwise only and bike traffic anti-clockwise only. Will never happen but would be a cheap easy solution (might need a bit of work to help cars entering roehampton gate get the neaby carpark but otherwise seems quite manageable to me)

NWLondoner

Cumulonimbus wrote:

Once nearly got taken out twice by pedestrians inside a minute in Richmond Park, both times stepping out without looking - one guy was carrying a child on his back...

Think the maddest cyclist i saw was one who decided not to slow for horses crossing the road, giving the rear of the horse about 50cm. Might have looked well judged to him and horses in Richmond Park are probably quite hard to scare but if it had got spooked and bolted...

I found out the other month that cycling into pedestrians is not good.

You bounce of them and hit the road hard. They go flying backwards and you feel sorry for them. Even though it was the stupid old hits fault!!!

SLX01

Why is it drivers suddenly become sanctimonious when in the park? I often get shouted at by drivers for overtaking on the faster sections but my top speed is rarely over 40kmh which is verging on 25 mph a whopping 4.5 mph too fast. This is on clear roads with no junctions, no shops, houses or schools and good visibility on both sides of the road. Yet soon as they get out of the park how many drivers actually stick to the limit when driving through residential areas? It seems that its perfectly acceptable to drive a 1 tonne 4 x4 filled with kids up a packed motorway at 20 mph over the limit but riding a bike at 24 mph in a Royal Park turns you into some kind of public enemy?? Next time I'm out in a car I must remember to hang out the window shouting abuse at every driver that overtakes me!!
When you do cycle at the correct speed and don't overtake cars will invariably either pull alongside and force you onto the verge or overtake into the gap you have left between you and the car in front.

Atz

SLX - Likewise, cyclists have to accept that some of our behaviour is hardly completely kosher either. I've had people overtaking me down the hill and then cutting past cars on the way into the roundabout. Other than heading for PBs, I don't understand the requirement for descending at a speed that isn't safe for you or other road users. It sounds like the poor guy who has had the accident has done exactly this.

Oh, and while I'm on my high horse, I've been forced onto the verge by other cyclists before too, never mind cars.

SLX01

Atz wrote:

SLX - Likewise, cyclists have to accept that some of our behaviour is hardly completely kosher either. I've had people overtaking me down the hill and then cutting past cars on the way into the roundabout. Other than heading for PBs, I don't understand the requirement for descending at a speed that isn't safe for you or other road users. It sounds like the poor guy who has had the accident has done exactly this.

Oh, and while I'm on my high horse, I've been forced onto the verge by other cyclists before too, never mind cars.

Its impossible to say how he ended up on the back seat of the car he could have been travelling at the correct speed and the car slammed on the anchors.....who knows (apart from the cyclist involved).
Agreed though cyclist are to blame for a lot of the problems caused, my pet hate is cycling two or even three abreast 'slowly'. Just because its legal to do so doesn't make it acceptable! Trying to put in a max effort up one of the steeper inclines only to get blocked by a group of cyclists spread across the road spinning up in their granny ring chatting to each other oblivious to any vehicles behind drives me crazy!!

G-Wiz

I'm thinking liberal application of these might remind everyone to play nicely together:

http://www.velominati.com/blog/gear/#bumper-stickers

jibberjim

SLX01 wrote:

Its impossible to say how he ended up on the back seat of the car he could have been travelling at the correct speed and the car slammed on the anchors.....who knows (apart from the cyclist involved).

Erm, if your stopping distance is such that you hit the car in front in its stopping distance, you are not travelling at the correct speed - you're travelling to fast.

The park is pretty much unusable for cycling in now, I now commute on the road adjoining the park because I believe it's safer due to the actions of the cyclists in the park.

bigmat

jibberjim wrote:

The park is pretty much unusable for cycling in now, I now commute on the road adjoining the park because I believe it's safer due to the actions of the cyclists in the park.

Sounds a bit extreme! Admittedly I've only been down there a couple of times this year, so it may have got a lot worse. Actually, the last time I was there during the day on a weekend I did very nearly get taken out by a cyclist who swung right towards Robin Hood's Gate carpark without shoulder checking or indicating, just as I was in the process of overtaking him - very nearly lost it and only just avoided the car coming in the other direction. My infrequent forays this year have been at the crack of dawn at the weekend or on a week night, seems fine at these times to be honest.

jibberjim

BigMat wrote:

My infrequent forays this year have been at the crack of dawn at the weekend or on a week night, seems fine at these times to be honest.

Yes, it's almost certainly reasonable when it's quiet, but I wouldn't say week night evenings at all!

NWLondoner

I find that the large group/chaingangs can be quite a pain in the ass, and i don't just mean the Dynamo's.

maryka

Edit: misread BigMat's post.

I was in the park last night around 7pm for the first time in ages (generally have been out later recently, but with the days getting shorter I was there earlier). I was thoroughly disgusted by the behaviour of other cyclists there. Twice going up the steep hill from Robin Hood gate I had riders descending in packs overtaking each other across the double white lines, the second time I actually had to swerve towards the grass and brake to avoid. I shouted but I'm sure I was just seen as someone to be sneered at.

These packs consisted of a multitude of different jerseys, no one club and mostly non-club so I have to assume either informal get-togethers or people jumping on the back of faster riders as they come by til there are so many in the group that it's a training peloton? It depresses me to think that probably more than a few people like this have become recent members of our club (our membership has shot up in the past year). The very people I don't want to be anywhere near me on a bike.

Really saddened to see it... I'm used to car drivers taking my life into their hands but that's the first time I can honestly say that other cyclists put my life in danger. Sure, I descend that hill over 20mph, I overtake cars in the park, I even do the occasional RLJ in real life, but I can definitely say I have never put another rider's life in danger in doing so. It seems there are quite a few people out there these days willing to do that to fellow cyclists and that's truly depressing.

So I think it's time to write a letter to Royal Parks asking for a clampdown on bad cycling behaviour -- they only need to stand on the grass halfway down that hill to see it -- and some restrictions on what cyclists can do (e.g. not cycling in groups larger than 4-6, like Great Windsor Park does).

*sigh*

bigmat

maryka wrote:

Edit: misread BigMat's post.

I was in the park last night around 7pm for the first time in ages (generally have been out later recently, but with the days getting shorter I was there earlier). I was thoroughly disgusted by the behaviour of other cyclists there. Twice going up the steep hill from Robin Hood gate I had riders descending in packs overtaking each other across the double white lines, the second time I actually had to swerve towards the grass and brake to avoid. I shouted but I'm sure I was just seen as someone to be sneered at.

These packs consisted of a multitude of different jerseys, no one club and mostly non-club so I have to assume either informal get-togethers or people jumping on the back of faster riders as they come by til there are so many in the group that it's a training peloton? It depresses me to think that probably more than a few people like this have become recent members of our club (our membership has shot up in the past year). The very people I don't want to be anywhere near me on a bike.

Really saddened to see it... I'm used to car drivers taking my life into their hands but that's the first time I can honestly say that other cyclists put my life in danger. Sure, I descend that hill over 20mph, I overtake cars in the park, I even do the occasional RLJ in real life, but I can definitely say I have never put another rider's life in danger in doing so. It seems there are quite a few people out there these days willing to do that to fellow cyclists and that's truly depressing.

So I think it's time to write a letter to Royal Parks asking for a clampdown on bad cycling behaviour -- they only need to stand on the grass halfway down that hill to see it -- and some restrictions on what cyclists can do (e.g. not cycling in groups larger than 4-6, like Great Windsor Park does).

*sigh*

Sounds like its got a lot worse then - shame. I missed your original pre-edit post, did I get a dressing down?!

maryka

BigMat wrote:

Sounds like its got a lot worse then - shame. I missed your original pre-edit post, did I get a dressing down?!

I read "roundabout" where you wrote "carpark" :oops:

airbusboy

First of all i hope the cyclist is ok....and has a speedy recovery.

NWLondoner wrote:

Only the other week i was descending at 55kph and hugging the centre line and guess what, a thor hushovd wannabe comes screaming past on the wrong side of the road at god knows what speed.

Maybe you should move over onto the left side of the road and anticipate, maybe other cyclists are wanting to overtake instead of forcing them onto the wrong side of the road.....

Rgds

jzed

I generally find the standard of riding improves once I get off the road and into the park. I'm in the park pretty much every night around 6-6.30 and its not too bad. There are the odd group of riders who are inconsiderate but I don't think I've ever felt my life has been in danger. I may be just immune as I encounter bad riding none stop on the commute.

I can't see what a letter to the Royal Parks will achieve other than increasing the police radar traps which isn't going to catch dangerous cycling.

maryka

JZed wrote:

I generally find the standard of riding improves once I get off the road and into the park. I'm in the park pretty much every night around 6-6.30 and its not too bad. There are the odd group of riders who are inconsiderate but I don't think I've ever felt my life has been in danger. I may be just immune as I encounter bad riding none stop on the commute.

I can't see what a letter to the Royal Parks will achieve other than increasing the police radar traps which isn't going to catch dangerous cycling.

Last night was the first and only time I've ever felt like my life was endangered by cyclists in RP. Had any one of those idiots riding over the double white lines lost control and careened into me, I would have been killed. It could have happened very easily. The road down that hill is not smooth, the cyclists were all over the road, some of them in Sammy Sanchez style poses, others braking madly while yet others overtook riders who were overtaking riders. They were spread across both lanes. Madness I observed from afar til I got close enough to the apex and had to hit the grass to avoid being taken out.

I'm going to ask the Royal Parks to consider some measures to protect cyclists from themselves and each other, seeing as a small minority have made it unsafe at times to ride there. Measures like limiting group size (either in certain months or certain times of day), considering one-way traffic (cyclists CW, cars ACW), and putting speed humps or something similar on Broomfield to force people to descend more carefully.

toontra

It's really a bit pathetic. If people go there with the purpose of training then it's the uphill sections they should be trying to maintain speed on. Any 3rd-rate lard-arse can get up to 30mph on the hill down to Robin Hood roundabout, but doing so doesn't impress anyone and certainly isn't going to get you any fitter or faster, so it's not only dangerous and illegal but also pointless.