Should I go back to a hardtail?

rybu

Looking for advice x 3...

After starting out on a hardtail (GT) after getting back into bikinng around a year ago, after around six months I upgraded after someone stole this to a Boardman Team Full suspension 2010 model for around 6 months now.

Whether its me or not, I don't seem to be getting on as well with the full suspension.

I don't feel I am going as quick, I don't feel as confident. The best way to describe it that I feel hindered riding it.

Maybe I am still getting used to F.S and need to spend even more time sorting out the suspension.

It all seemed so much simpler on and more about the riding on my hardtail. I feel like I have lost a bit of the 'excitement' from biking and oddly seem to keep crashing. Never happened on the hardtail.

Am i doing something wrong??

Secondly if I did want to go back to a hardtail - what sort of pricepoint for a frame would I be looking at to get a GOOD bike USING MY EXISITING COMPONENTS from my boardman.

Any recommendations for a hardtail frame much appreciated!!

Many thanks,

Confused :? Ryan

paul.skibum

What GT did you have - it probably stems froma difference in the geometry between the bikes - so despite the FS of the boardman maybe it has steeper angles and is less confidence inspiring?

Looking at the Boardman's figures it has a 69 degree headangle which isnt too steep but does have a long stem - you could try a shorter stem to bring your weight back and maybe make it feel a bit more responsive?

Otherwise try a hartail again such as Piglet though you will need a short stem for it but should also pay for it selling the FS frame!

Wish I had my hardtail with me in BC. I miss it.

rybu

I probably missed out a couple of things.

I ride red trail/s at Cannock chase, the current fork is a Reba sl with 120mm travel.

Possible budget for new frame < £500


Paul,

I had a Gt Avalanche 3.0 hydro, it was only around £450 new but it was great.I have just purchased a 70mm raceface stem and put it on the boardman. I have yet to ride the bike to see if that helps.

Ryan

leaflite

take a look at one-one. they have some great frames including a full carbon one for under 500

kenan

leaflite wrote:

take a look at one-one. they have some great frames including a full carbon one for under 500

I think the 456 would be a good shout, but not with a 120mm shock.

DCR00

interesting post

ive been using a hardtail for about a year now, and am procrastinating about whether to go FS or not...

did you try the Boardman before you bought it ?

(i may have a Carbon HT frame for sale at some point if your interested)

toasty

kenan wrote:

leaflite wrote:

take a look at one-one. they have some great frames including a full carbon one for under 500

I think the 456 would be a good shout, but not with a 120mm shock.

The name refers to the travel range. 5 or 120mm is bang in the middle, it'd be fine.

toasty

Mobile phone double post fail.

captainfly

I think it is probably a technique thing, if you are still choosing the same lines as on the HT then you won't be as fast and the trails will seem smoother, I know the difference between my 6" FS and 4" #X HT is very marked on the FS it feels like someone has nicked all the bumps I also find you have to manhandle a FS rather than use body imput like on a HT. I would persevere with the FS but just be a more direct with inputs and take the tougher lines, also play with the rear shock settings maybe less preload and more rebound damping?

Fudgie

Ideally you would have both. Routes can differ according to topography and the weather. I love being able to choose my route and then decide which bike I want to take.

Obviously, the initial outlay is more but maintenance costs are the same as you can only ride one at a time and the bikes last twice as long. It's a longer term solution but can make sense if you can find enough cash now for a complete hardtail and keep the Boardman intact to experiment with setup.

rybu

captainfly wrote:

I think it is probably a technique thing, if you are still choosing the same lines as on the HT then you won't be as fast and the trails will seem smoother, I know the difference between my 6" FS and 4" #X HT is very marked on the FS it feels like someone has nicked all the bumps I also find you have to manhandle a FS rather than use body imput like on a HT. I would persevere with the FS but just be a more direct with inputs and take the tougher lines, also play with the rear shock settings maybe less preload and more rebound damping?

Thanks so far to all for the posts. Some thought provoking ideas / opinions...

You raise some good points, I feel like I am not as connected. I guess I am not used to manhandling the bike as much, rather used to more flowy riding. I guess that why it doesnt seem as smooth.

It does seem that in a number of cases that the natural progression is from HT to FS.

DCR00 - Yes I did have a short ride on it before purchase, the problem being replicaing trail usage is impossible.

Carbon bikes worry me that if i stuf it I'll end up with a hole in he frame and not a dent. The piglet looks good

paul.skibum - The piglet looks very good, reasonable price aswell.

rybu

Anyone care to comment/pass thoughts on how much a bike shop would charge to transfer everything over. I am lacking in some tools for B.B + torque wrench and I am sure some other bike specific equipment

Thanks again, keep the posts coming.

Ryan

d00m

If the handling feels off, for example; too slow/imprecise, try running more sag in the forks, to steepen up the head angle.

Once the front end is starting to feel good, check that the front and rear suspension is matched in how it compresses and rebounds (takes trial and error, but rewarding).

Failing that, you could stiffen everything up, then work towards a taut, but compliant setting from there. Also worth reading about rebound and compression so you can understand what the suspension is doing.

WILL 1 AM

Full sus for me, had a hardball 456 for a week stand in whilst waiting for my Heckler and i realised how much more comfy FS bikes are over bumpy terrain.
The hard tail would just bounce my rear end up and smack you in the butt numerous times whereas the FS would soak it up. Riding techniques I suppose but still, I would never have just a hardball alone.
So if it's bumpy route then you can gun it along faster than a hard tail IMO.

cooldad

d00m wrote:

If the handling feels off, for example; too slow/imprecise, try running more sag in the forks, to steepen up the head angle.

Not a good idea, not what sag is for, you will end up with overly soft suspension that will bottom out too easily, and would need to drop about 20mm to change head angle by a degree.

edhornby

456 refers to the fact you can run a 4, 5 or 6 inch fork.

if the headset cups come out easily enough with gentle persuasion, all you need is a bb spanner and they can be picked up for sub £10. if you can adjust gears then you could do the job yourself

d00m

cooldad wrote:

Not a good idea, not what sag is for, you will end up with overly soft suspension that will bottom out too easily, and would need to drop about 20mm to change head angle by a degree.

It's exactly what sag is for. with less air pressure/spring preload,suspension compresses more easily, so more compression damping, and less rebound damping is required. Works for me, any other rider of mountain and motorbikes.

when you get beyond the limits of the available damping, you've gone wrong with spring rate/preload.

To the original poster, you can also get really bad handling caused when the rears sagging too much, so that the front rides high and deflects off everything.

paul.skibum

d00m wrote:

cooldad wrote:

Not a good idea, not what sag is for, you will end up with overly soft suspension that will bottom out too easily, and would need to drop about 20mm to change head angle by a degree.

It's exactly what sag is for. with less air pressure/spring preload,suspension compresses more easily, so more compression damping, and less rebound damping is required. Works for me, any other rider of mountain and motorbikes.

when you get beyond the limits of the available damping, you've gone wrong with spring rate/preload.

To the original poster, you can also get really bad handling caused when the rears sagging too much, so that the front rides high and deflects off everything.

You want to balance front and rear suspension sag to maintain the way in which the bike has been designed to work - flop the front down more than the rear or visa versa is just f*cking with the bikes handling and ride characteristics.

There is no benefit to trying to steepen the front by adding excessive sag. Unless you like going over the bars.

toasty

I'd try faffing around with bar height/stem length, it makes a world of difference. Lower frontend will feel a lot more connected and nimble, its amazing how much difference 10mm either way can make and it's a 2 minute job to try if you have spacers under the stem.

DCR00

Toasty wrote:

I'd try faffing around with bar height/stem length, it makes a world of difference. Lower frontend will feel a lot more connected and nimble, its amazing how much difference 10mm either way can make and it's a 2 minute job to try if you have spacers under the stem.

+1

when i flipped my stem back around to 10 degree upwards, it made a world of difference when riding rough terrain