The Armstrong Effect? Probably not...

meanredspider

Rode with Lance at the weekend on his Dornoch Twitter ride which was fantastic. On Monday did my fastest commute to date and then, today, I totally blitzed it being a whole minute faster and breaking the 20mph average barrier for the first time (my ultimate goal when I started 1.5 years ago) despite it being almost totally still air and reasonably cool (11c).

Actually, I think the thing that's done it for me is swapping from 25c Gatorskins to 23c GP4000s tyres. I'm actually doubting the theory that 25c are faster rolling that 23c for starters. I struggle to get near my best terminal velocity (achieved on 23c Gators) on the 25c Gators (both running 120psi). The 4000s are probably (certainly) faster rolling tyres anyway.

essex-commuter

Saw that tweet and was very jealous (being a Southerner!)! Can't believe how many turned up...was it just Twitter organised?

meanredspider

No - it actually came out on Facebook the night before giving people plenty of time. By the day of the ride, it was on here, BBC website, local radio etc. Also, it's become a bit of an expectation when he's here so it's well-flagged.

essex-commuter

meanredspider wrote:

No - it actually came out on Facebook the night before giving people plenty of time. By the day of the ride, it was on here, BBC website, local radio etc. Also, it's become a bit of an expectation when he's here so it's well-flagged.

Wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info. So was he surrounded by an entourage so you couldn't even see him?

meanredspider

essex-commuter wrote:

Wasn't aware of that, thanks for the info. So was he surrounded by an entourage so you couldn't even see him?

No, not really - he seemed to be mostly on his own. I got my book (It's Not About the Bike) signed by him for my son as we arrived back at Skibo Castle. He was mobbed by people though - we reckon that there was about 400 bikes and the press suggested that there was 1000+ people in Dornoch.

Here's the BBC Web coverage
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-14181649 (that's me at 8s in in the LiveStrong lid and Jersey)

And here's a great video photo montage from Unixnerd on here which really captures the atmosphere brilliantly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrpR6CTbslY

The ride itself was manic. Several crashes including one poor kid who looked like he'd broken his collarbone. Heading down off the hill in the pissing rain with 400 other road bikes on single track road (with gravel & mud up the middle) was pretty exciting! We averaged around 20mph (one huge peleton for much of it).

Fantastic experience though.

essex-commuter

Looks a great day. He really is a celebrity isn't he, lot's of non-bike people there too. Wonder if there would be the same turnout if it was Wiggo / Cav / Hoy etc!?

Well done on getting your book signed!

meanredspider

Sure it wouldn't be. Love him or loathe him (as plenty on here seem to) for his bike stuff, what he's done with the cancer thing goes way beyond what I can think that any other sports star has done. For that alone he has my deep admiration. I can't think of another celeb that I'd have made the effort for.

daviesee

meanredspider wrote:

Sure it wouldn't be. Love him or loathe him (as plenty on here seem to) for his bike stuff, what he's done with the cancer thing goes way beyond what I can think that any other sports star has done. For that alone he has my deep admiration. I can't think of another celeb that I'd have made the effort for.

I didn't make the effort but I would have, had it been Robert Millar.

I doubt he's a "celebrity" these days though.

DonDaddyD

Surely 23c would be faster rolling than 25c and GP 4000s are faster tyres than Gatorskins. Noticably faster and more grippy IMO.

t4tomo

1000+ people turned out, maybe they thought they could score some Temazepam off Lance?





Joke, before upset Scots and "Lance rode Clean" believers bite my head off.

meanredspider

DonDaddyD wrote:

Surely 23c would be faster rolling than 25c and GP 4000s are faster tyres than Gatorskins. Noticably faster and more grippy IMO.

Isn't that what I said?

Actually, my point was in response to the article on BR that reviewed the findings of a tyre testing institute that suggested 25c were faster rolling than 23c (less deformation being the working theory). I'm doubting that.

DonDaddyD

I read that wrong. Generally I think Conti 4 seasons are the way to go - they give performance levels comparable (but not equal to or better than) GP 4000s but the added weight is due to p-protection which is comparable to (but not equal to or better than) Gatorskins.

meanredspider

DonDaddyD wrote:

Generally I think Conti 4 seasons are the way to go - they give performance levels comparable (but not equal to or better than) GP 4000s but the added weight is due to p-protection which is comparable to (but not equal to or better than) Gatorskins.

I might give them a try. The reason I've used Gators is that they've been pretty much foolproof for me over the last year or so. I tried the 4000Ss too early in the year and had flats both too and from work on the same day. Back to the Gators (experimenting with 25cs) and back to reliable rides. But there's no doubt that the 4000S is a faster rolling tyre. I might stick on the 23c Gators I still have and try to figure out how much is the tyre make-up and how much is the tyre size.

nation

meanredspider wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Surely 23c would be faster rolling than 25c and GP 4000s are faster tyres than Gatorskins. Noticably faster and more grippy IMO.

Isn't that what I said?

Actually, my point was in response to the article on BR that reviewed the findings of a tyre testing institute that suggested 25c were faster rolling than 23c (less deformation being the working theory). I'm doubting that.

You aren't comparing like with like, though. I'd expect GP4000s to be faster rolling than gatorskins for a given size. There's no way of knowing if the reduction in rolling resistance is down to the difference in size or the difference in compound/construction.

It might be that 25c GP4000s are faster still.

DonDaddyD

25c 4 Season on the back wheel. 23c 4 season on the front (like the Attack/Force concept) was my best commuting combination. IMO

The Rookie

The data suggests that 25c are fractionally lower rolling resistance than 23c, BUT 23c have lower aero drag than 25c, so which is then 'faster rolling' (meaningless term of course) depends on, erm, well how fast you going and hence the relative contributions of aero and rolling resistance.

Of course comparing one 23c with a totally different make/model/designed usage of 25c is like comparing apples and stairs.

Simon

meanredspider

nation wrote:

You aren't comparing like with like, though. I'd expect GP4000s to be faster rolling than gatorskins for a given size. There's no way of knowing if the reduction in rolling resistance is down to the difference in size or the difference in compound/construction.

It might be that 25c GP4000s are faster still.

Holy Cats - I'm really not expressing myself very well today - I've only just written (7 minutes before your post):

meanredspider wrote:

I might stick on the 23c Gators I still have and try to figure out how much is the tyre make-up and how much is the tyre size

to that very point.... :roll:

meanredspider

The Beginner wrote:

The data suggests that 25c are fractionally lower rolling resistance than 23c, BUT 23c have lower aero drag than 25c, so which is then 'faster rolling' (meaningless term of course) depends on, erm, well how fast you going and hence the relative contributions of aero and rolling resistance.

Of course comparing one 23c with a totally different make/model/designed usage of 25c is like comparing apples and stairs.

Simon

Yes - I was thinking about the aero bit - and a key component of aero drag is frontal area which would tend to support the 25c drag theory - until you consider that there's a great big "fat" bike between the wheels. The 2mm extra width I'd have thought was negligible once that's taken into account.

I'm not going to buy 25c GP4000s just to close the experiment but I will compare

23c 4000s with 23c gators with 25c gators (all are Conti if "make" really matters) and see what I find.

The Rookie

meanredspider wrote:

Yes - I was thinking about the aero bit - and a key component of aero drag is frontal area which would tend to support the 25c drag theory - until you consider that there's a great big "fat" bike between the wheels. The 2mm extra width I'd have thought was negligible once that's taken into account.

Thats like saying car shaped like a brick has the same aerodynamics as one like a wedge as it has the same frontal area, and clearly not true. For the same area you get lower aero drag by gradually increasing then decreasing (that being more important than the increasing) the cross section, besides below the BB height the width is set by the tyres and nothing else.

Simon

meanredspider

The Beginner wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Yes - I was thinking about the aero bit - and a key component of aero drag is frontal area which would tend to support the 25c drag theory - until you consider that there's a great big "fat" bike between the wheels. The 2mm extra width I'd have thought was negligible once that's taken into account.

Thats like saying car shaped like a brick has the same aerodynamics as one like a wedge as it has the same frontal area, and clearly not true. For the same area you get lower aero drag by gradually increasing then decreasing (that being more important than the increasing) the cross section, besides below the BB height the width is set by the tyres and nothing else.

Simon

I did say A key component. Drag is a function of bluff area and shape factor.

Since the shape factor of a bike with 25c tyres on is hardly going to be different from that of a bike with 23c tyres on, frontal area needs to be considered. Lets say that the BB is 200mm off the deck for round numbers, we have 200mmx2mm of additional area 400mm2 - or 4cm2. Dipping my head by 5mm would more than make up for that.

MarcBC

Irrespective of the tyres, I would also not write off the power of the mind. If you felt "fantastic" on the Lance ride, it can have a big impact on your riding. The difference in my riding and climbing speed between feeling "okay" and "fantastic" is quite material.

meanredspider

That's a good observation. I rarely ride with others and, before the Lance ride, really had no sense of how I'd do alongside some very keen and experienced riders. I think I did OK which has certainly boosted my confidence in my ability - that's gotta help too.

nation

meanredspider wrote:

nation wrote:

You aren't comparing like with like, though. I'd expect GP4000s to be faster rolling than gatorskins for a given size. There's no way of knowing if the reduction in rolling resistance is down to the difference in size or the difference in compound/construction.

It might be that 25c GP4000s are faster still.

Holy Cats - I'm really not expressing myself very well today - I've only just written (7 minutes before your post):

meanredspider wrote:

I might stick on the 23c Gators I still have and try to figure out how much is the tyre make-up and how much is the tyre size

to that very point.... :roll:

Huh... didn't see that at all. I probably loaded up the thread and then left it sitting in the background for ages before typing the post.

The perils of posting from work.

SimonAH

Has your trumpet and gravely-voiced jazz singing also improved?

meanredspider

SimonAH wrote:

Has your trumpet and gravely-voiced jazz singing also improved?

No - but people keep asking me what the moon is like...


Fastest ride home too. Good day