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Taxi caused crash - advice please

garnettgarnett Posts: 196
edited July 2011 in The bottom bracket
Coming back from Liverpool Street over London Bridge after the London to Southend bike ride on Sunday, I hit very heavy torrential rain. And then the side of a taxi.

At London Bridge traffic coming off the bridge was at a standstill, but had a green light. There was no room for cars on the other side of the box grid so they weren't moving over. I was going down the left of the traffic and crossed the junction. A taxi coming from the opposite direction turned right, and swung across my path. I slowed as much as possible without skidding and thumped into the passenger side. I managed to stay upright. The wallop must have been very loud inside the cab for his two fares.

The cabbie suffered a torrent of abuse through his passenger window, along the lines of "what the F do you think you're playing at?". He looked a bit shocked and said, "Sorry, I didn't see you" and then asked if I was OK.

I felt fine and he seemed genuinely shaken, so said I was OK and apologised for swearing and cycled off. With the adrenalin pumping I didn't take any details whatsoever.

Now 2 days later I can't lift my arm above 45 degrees from my body and my shoulder has no strength. I already had an inflamed rotator cuff, but I think now it may be torn.

The bike seems fine, after I realigned the slight twist in the handlebars, and moved the front brake calipers back into position.

I have a physio session booked in for tomorrow morning.

Friends have said I should enquire about compensation but I'm loathe to add to the "litigation culture" and said I didn't want to. As the shoulder gets more and more useless though, I'm wondering about my options.

I'd be very grateful for any advice on my options and what to do next.

Thanks for reading.

Posts

  • McBain_v1McBain_v1 Posts: 5,237
    I guess quantifying the state of your injuries is a start so get something in writing from a medical bod first, then investigate legal options - maybe start with CAB as this would be cheaper than running to 2-5 Greys Inn Square and demanding their most expensive Silk takes your case!

    I'm currently nursing a broken collar bone that came courtesy of an accident that wasn't my fault so I can sympathise.

    What do I ride? Now that's an Enigma!
  • Any CCTV on that junction? may help you trace if it can read his Reg or Hackney Carriage plate.
    AKA Captain Blackbeard
    Going Top to Bottom - E2E for Everyman and Headway - Spet 2013
  • sheffsimonsheffsimon Posts: 1,282
    Garnett wrote:
    Coming back from Liverpool Street over London Bridge after the London to Southend bike ride on Sunday, I hit very heavy torrential rain. And then the side of a taxi.

    At London Bridge traffic coming off the bridge was at a standstill, but had a green light. There was no room for cars on the other side of the box grid so they weren't moving over. I was going down the left of the traffic and crossed the junction. A taxi coming from the opposite direction turned right, and swung across my path. I slowed as much as possible without skidding and thumped into the passenger side. I managed to stay upright. The wallop must have been very loud inside the cab for his two fares.

    The cabbie suffered a torrent of abuse through his passenger window, along the lines of "what the F do you think you're playing at?". He looked a bit shocked and said, "Sorry, I didn't see you" and then asked if I was OK.

    I felt fine and he seemed genuinely shaken, so said I was OK and apologised for swearing and cycled off. With the adrenalin pumping I didn't take any details whatsoever.

    Now 2 days later I can't lift my arm above 45 degrees from my body and my shoulder has no strength. I already had an inflamed rotator cuff, but I think now it may be torn.

    The bike seems fine, after I realigned the slight twist in the handlebars, and moved the front brake calipers back into position.

    I have a physio session booked in for tomorrow morning.

    Friends have said I should enquire about compensation but I'm loathe to add to the "litigation culture" and said I didn't want to. As the shoulder gets more and more useless though, I'm wondering about my options.

    I'd be very grateful for any advice on my options and what to do next.

    Thanks for reading.

    Filtering down the left side, how is the oncoming right-turning traffic expected to see you? When, in your own admission it was raining heavily?

    A bit more care and attention from BOTH parties would have prevented this, and I imagine would be used to mitigate the cabbies financial responsibilities.
  • Bad luck fella, good luck trying to trace the taxi
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • cornerblockcornerblock Posts: 3,228
    Bad luck fella, good luck trying to trace the taxi

    'You'll never guess who I had in the side of my cab last week!'

    Hope you recover quickly. When the rain is as heavy as it was last week you have to slow right down to allow for the poor braking conditions. Added to that the poor visibility and it is easy to see how your accident happened. The taxi driver was in the wrong for cutting across you, though you probably made an error too in not thinking that it could happen at a major junction and not riding in a way to avoid it. If it was me, I think I would put it down as a lesson learned and not bother pursuing it, but good luck if you do decide to.
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 4,257
    I'd never go past cars on the left side of a junction is approaching, if I did that I'd have crashed about 20 times this year, as for drivers turning right, well if you're going past a car n the left side that is not moving you should proper slow down and make sure it's clear.

    I think both parties were equally in the wrong.
  • garnettgarnett Posts: 196
    Thanks for all the support and suggestions.
    When the rain is as heavy as it was last week you have to slow right down to allow for the poor braking conditions. Added to that the poor visibility and it is easy to see how your accident happened.

    Absolutely.
    The taxi driver was in the wrong for cutting across you, though you probably made an error too in not thinking that it could happen at a major junction and not riding in a way to avoid it. If it was me, I think I would put it down as a lesson learned and not bother pursuing it, but good luck if you do decide to.
    Yeah, that is my current view. As the shoulder loses mobility and strength I feel more peeved, though.
    SheffSimon wrote:
    Filtering down the left side, how is the oncoming right-turning traffic expected to see you? When, in your own admission it was raining heavily?
    I guess by paying suffiecient attention to the traffic with priority.
    SheffSimon wrote:
    A bit more care and attention from BOTH parties would have prevented this, and I imagine would be used to mitigate the cabbies financial responsibilities.
    Yeah, I agree. I may even have dented his cab too.
    freehub wrote:
    I'd never go past cars on the left side of a junction is approaching.
    I can't follow the grammar in that, sorry.

    I guess what I'm worried about is finding out down the line that the injury's not gonna heal fuly and/or cause lasting loss of mobility and strength and at that point regret having not made inquiries about seeking recompense within a suitable time or at a time when evidence is still available.
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    The irony of asking for tips.
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Sorry to put a dampener on this (no pun intended) but I think you're screwed.

    Firstly you were passing down the inside of the cars which had stopped at the box junction. The taxi would presumably have seen that the cars were stationary and turned right. At which point, you will have appeared overtaking up the inside. I think it's perfectly reasonable for a vehicle to turn right if he sees another vehicle stationary at a box junction. I'm sure that the cabbie didn't see you, that'll be because you were obscured by the line of stationary traffic that you were passing on the inside.

    Secondly, you didn't take any details, so good luck tracing the cab.

    Thirdly, you haven't mentioned that you've reported the accident. In which case, and I'm not doubting your story, what's to say that you didn't have another accident, fall down the stairs etc in the time between hitting the cab and your shoulder beginning to hurt ?

    I think you're on a hiding to nothing with this one, just get yourself to the doc and physio and take a little more care next time.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • cornerblockcornerblock Posts: 3,228
    Still, you did do well to find a taxi at London Bridge on a Sunday!
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Garnett wrote:
    Thanks for all the support and suggestions.
    When the rain is as heavy as it was last week you have to slow right down to allow for the poor braking conditions. Added to that the poor visibility and it is easy to see how your accident happened.

    Absolutely.
    Agreed. If you were in a car and couldnt' brake in time due to the water on teh road, you would be deemed to be driving to fast for the conditions. The same goes if you're on a bike.
    The taxi driver was in the wrong for cutting across you, though you probably made an error too in not thinking that it could happen at a major junction and not riding in a way to avoid it. If it was me, I think I would put it down as a lesson learned and not bother pursuing it, but good luck if you do decide to.
    Yeah, that is my current view. As the shoulder loses mobility and strength I feel more peeved, though.
    Not entirely correct. The taxi driver turned right in front of a stationary vehicle at the head of the queue, waiting to cross the box junction. I assume that if the vehicle was waiting at the the box junction, then the exit wasn't clear.If the exit wasnt' clear, then niethere the car, nor cyclist should have crossed. Unless you were planning to undertake cars further up the road ? Either way, the exit wasn't clear.
    SheffSimon wrote:
    Filtering down the left side, how is the oncoming right-turning traffic expected to see you? When, in your own admission it was raining heavily?
    I guess by paying suffiecient attention to the traffic with priority.
    You didn't have priority, the car waiting did. You were passing on the left hand side of the stationary car. I'd place money on the fact that the cabbie saw the stationary car, turned right, and then was hit by yourself after you had appeared up the inside of the stationary car. If you decided to undertake the stationary vehicle, in a single lane, obscuring yoursef from the view of oncomming traffic turning right then you are at fault.
    SheffSimon wrote:
    A bit more care and attention from BOTH parties would have prevented this, and I imagine would be used to mitigate the cabbies financial responsibilities.
    Yeah, I agree. I may even have dented his cab too.
    freehub wrote:
    I'd never go past cars on the left side of a junction is approaching.
    I can't follow the grammar in that, sorry.

    I guess what I'm worried about is finding out down the line that the injury's not gonna heal fuly and/or cause lasting loss of mobility and strength and at that point regret having not made inquiries about seeking recompense within a suitable time or at a time when evidence is still available.
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 4,257
    What I meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if a junction was approaching."
  • AggieboyAggieboy Posts: 3,996
    freehub wrote:
    What I meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if a junction was approaching."

    FFS Will!!! Now you've thrown me. I can't understand your sentences without 'proper', ain't or 'like' being included.
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • garnettgarnett Posts: 196
    Thanks for all the input. For those unfamiliar with London Bridge, the box grid at the junction is massive.

    There must be approx 10 meters between where cars going in my direction were waiting and where the taxi should have been waiting (instead of swinging into my path).

    I'm pretty sure I was within the highway code to be doing what I was doing. I suppose I could have predicted the cabbie wouldn't wait for me. I was wearing a high vis full sleeve rain jacket at the time.

    The cabbie also apologised straight away and said "sorry, I didn't see you".

    Freehub, I still don't really understand. Do you live in London?
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Garnett wrote:
    Thanks for all the input. For those unfamiliar with London Bridge, the box grid at the junction is massive.

    There must be approx 10 meters between where cars going in my direction were waiting and where the taxi should have been waiting (instead of swinging into my path).

    I'm pretty sure I was within the highway code to be doing what I was doing. I suppose I could have predicted the cabbie wouldn't wait for me. I was wearing a high vis full sleeve rain jacket at the time.

    The cabbie also apologised straight away and said "sorry, I didn't see you".

    Freehub, I still don't really understand. Do you live in London?
    Obviously I can only go on what you've said here, but undertaking, and crossing a box junction when the exit isn't clear (assuming that's why the car you undertook wasn't crossing the box junction) aren't within the highway code.

    If the cabbie didnt' see you and you were wearing hi-viz, there's a good chance that you were obscured by the stationary cars when he started his turn. This could be supported by the fact that 10m isn't very far and even if you were doing 5mph (which seems slow considereing you couldn't stop) it would take you ~4 seconds before you hit the taxi. 4 seconds seems an awfully long time. Think about it, cab turns right, then 1.. 2.. 3.. 4.. you hit the side of his cab, and you were braking sufficiently hard to skid in the wet.

    I'm not doubting what happened, just your perception of it and I think you'll struggle to make any claims. Either way, I hope your shoulder recovers !
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 4,257
    Garnett wrote:

    Freehub, I still don't really understand. Do you live in London?

    Selby is no where near London so no.

    I don't see how the comment is hard to understand, if you've got cars on your right side and you're coming up to a junction and the cars are stopped you should slow right down, like proper slow and make sure it's clear, or if they're moving then don't even attempt it.

    It's the same wherever you live London is no different.
  • freehub wrote:
    What I meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if a junction was approaching."

    I think what you meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if I was approaching a junction."

    The junction is stationary, you are the one that is moving.
  • MattC59MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    freehub wrote:
    What I meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if a junction was approaching."

    I think what you meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if I was approaching a junction."

    The junction is stationary, you are the one that is moving.
    PEDANT ALERT !!!!
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • garnettgarnett Posts: 196
    MattC59 wrote:
    If the cabbie didnt' see you and you were wearing hi-viz, there's a good chance that you were obscured by the stationary cars when he started his turn. This could be supported by the fact that 10m isn't very far and even if you were doing 5mph (which seems slow considereing you couldn't stop) it would take you ~4 seconds before you hit the taxi. 4 seconds seems an awfully long time. Think about it, cab turns right, then 1.. 2.. 3.. 4.. you hit the side of his cab, and you were braking sufficiently hard to skid in the wet.

    I'm not doubting what happened, just your perception of it and I think you'll struggle to make any claims. Either way, I hope your shoulder recovers !
    Thanks Matt.

    I appreciate what you say and I don't deny that there was some (but not much) contributory neg on my part. However, the timing was more like:-

    I come down the line of traffic and begin to cross the box junction, and am crossing it for 1 second, 2 seconds, 3 seconds, before taxi turns right in front of me, and, four seconds, BAM. As I say, the cabbie immediately apologised.

    It was my understanding that traffic wanting to turn right should wait for oncoming traffic which has priority.

    It's further my understanding that bikes can cross junctions even if cars are not.

    Also, many many cyclists who I would suspect consider themselves conscientious road users "undertake" stationary cars.

    Anyway, notwithstanding the above, many thanks to all for the help.
  • tarquin_foxglovetarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    edited July 2011
    Garnett wrote:
    Thanks for all the input. For those unfamiliar with London Bridge, the box grid at the junction is massive.

    There must be approx 10 meters between where cars going in my direction were waiting and where the taxi should have been waiting (instead of swinging into my path).

    I'm pretty sure I was within the highway code to be doing what I was doing. I suppose I could have predicted the cabbie wouldn't wait for me. I was wearing a high vis full sleeve rain jacket at the time.

    It's ages since I rode across London Bridge but isn't there a cycle lane to an ASL as you come south across it?

    If you are turning right (IIRC) across the three lanes of southbound traffic (2 vehicle & 1 bike) really you should be expecting cyclists to be using the inside lane & coming down the left hand side of the traffic and check that was clear before making your turn.
  • freehubfreehub Posts: 4,257
    freehub wrote:
    What I meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if a junction was approaching."

    I think what you meant to say was "I'd never go past cars on the left if I was approaching a junction."

    The junction is stationary, you are the one that is moving.

    No, the junction was moving, the cyclist is stationary, it's called bending space time.
  • mouthmouth Posts: 1,195
    So you entered a junction where there was a car waiting to turn right into the same road you wanted? Make eye contact with the driver? No need to exchange details/report to the police? Good luck in tracing the taxi driver. I don't think you've got a hope.

    On a further note: there is no such thing as an accident, only a collision where one or more of the parties didn't plan properly. i'll let the forum users decide who needed to think more in this case given the weather etc....
    The only disability in life is a poor attitude.
  • dilemnadilemna Posts: 2,187
    To the OP - what you should do next is go to your GP and get all the medical treatment you need to make a full recovery. With regard to pursuing the taxi driver for compensation just leave it and move on, you gave him a load of abuse and told him you were ok plus your riding may well have contributed to your injuries. Forget tracing or suing him and move on. You had your opportunity, but declined it.
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
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