whats the deal with aluminium?

wilshawk

I like the appearance of old steel frames with their thin straight tubes, but Im thinking of buying a hybrid, which all seem to be aluminium, and Im generally disgusted by the weird shapes and curves in most of the aluminium frames I see in the shops..

is it so hard to make an Alu frame with straight tubes??

also which frame material do you prefer?

Thanks!

MountainMonster

I personally prefer carbon, mainly due to aesthetics, no where near good enough to notice any difference in ride.

No it's not hard to make a Alu frame with straight tubes, but nobody wants them these days, so they make what people want/will buy.

gkerr4

MountainMonster wrote:

I personally prefer carbon, mainly due to aesthetics, no where near good enough to notice any difference in ride.

No it's not hard to make a Alu frame with straight tubes, but nobody wants them these days, so they make what people want/will buy.

what he said - they make the alu frames to look like carbon - which is the material of desire at the moment (right or wrong - i'm not getting into a debate about it!)

why not buy a steel bike if thats how you like the look of them?

personally, i feel that that design of "tubed" bike looks old fashioned and I prefer the organic look of curved and formed tubes / mouldings.

ollyridesfirst

Titanium is the way to go for the straight tube frames...

Just need to save my pennies now

MattC59

Aluminium tubes have wierd shapes primarily to add certain properties to the tubes at certain points. Santa Cruz are probably the best example of this with the hydroforming of their MTB frames.

Of course, asthetics can also be added in the hydroforming process, but the process isn't there to make them look like carbon frames :roll:

My next bike will be titanium

fast as fupp

wilshawk wrote:

I like the appearance of old steel frames with their thin straight tubes, but Im thinking of buying a hybrid, which all seem to be aluminium, and Im generally disgusted by the weird shapes and curves in most of the aluminium frames I see in the shops..

is it so hard to make an Alu frame with straight tubes??

also which frame material do you prefer?

Thanks!

disgusted? why do the shapes disgust you?

gkerr4

MattC59 wrote:

Of course, asthetics can also be added in the hydroforming process, but the process isn't there to make them look like carbon frames :roll:

i dunno - i'd be fairly sure MOST of it is about aesthetics!

ride a 2010 Specialized allez versus a 2007 allez- the 2010 bike has the curvy tubes, the 2007 is straight.

they both have the same geometry and they both ride exactly the same!

but the 2010 looks like its tarmac / roubaix carbon stablemates - it's purely for sales purposes surely!

same, imo, for the trek range - it must be beneficial for them to have the alu bikes 'look' like the top of the range madone carbon bikes.

markos1963

Can't say I'm a big fan of aluminium(although I do have a couple in the stable) non of the long term durability of carbon and (with a few exceptions either way) a poorer ride quality.

MichaelW

Get a steel tourer and put some flat bars onit.

MattC59

gkerr4 wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Of course, asthetics can also be added in the hydroforming process, but the process isn't there to make them look like carbon frames :roll:

i dunno - i'd be fairly sure MOST of it is about aesthetics!

ride a 2010 Specialized allez versus a 2007 allez- the 2010 bike has the curvy tubes, the 2007 is straight.

they both have the same geometry and they both ride exactly the same!

but the 2010 looks like its tarmac / roubaix carbon stablemates - it's purely for sales purposes surely!

same, imo, for the trek range - it must be beneficial for them to have the alu bikes 'look' like the top of the range madone carbon bikes.

Perhaps, but as mentioned, the hydroforming allows specific structural properties to be added where they're needed. eg, hydroforming the top and down tubes where they meet the head tube can give you a stiffer head tube area. The same is often done around the BB. Material and structure can be added to the tube profile where it's needed and removed where it's not needed.

If you compare the 2007 Allez to the 2010 Allez, you'll notice that the Top tube of the 2010 model has a larger profile, this will increase stiffness in this area, whilst allowing wall thickness to be thinned. Granted, the curved top tube is probably there to make the family of Spesh road bikes a family identity, but fancy tube profiles are primarily functional.

Anyway, I thought you weren't goiong to get into debate about it ?

gkerr4

nah - i'm not buying. it's there to make them resemble the carbon posh-bikes!

wilshawk

fast as fupp wrote:

disgusted? why do the shapes disgust you?

okay I maybe worded that a bit strongly, I guess Im just a 'straight line' sort of person, I like the neater streamlined appearance of thin straight tubes.

MichaelW wrote:

Get a steel tourer and put some flat bars onit.

This idea is of interest to me, although in an ideal world I like the appearance of a steel frame, and the weight saving of aluminium, both in one bike, for <£450. If I cant have my cake and eat it then I may just do what you suggest.

fast as fupp

get a steel frame in reynolds 531and put some carbon forks on it

bobs yer uncle! ( and definately not disgusting! )

northstar

markos1963 wrote:

Can't say I'm a big fan of aluminium(although I do have a couple in the stable) non of the long term durability of carbon and (with a few exceptions either way) a poorer ride quality.

I'd rather be riding a aluminum bike than a carbon if i was to have a collision...

Mortimer

Here are some pretty straight alu tubes (I think) on a 2012 Charge Zester hybrid: http://road.cc/content/image/36459-char ... ll-bikejpg
If that's not thin enough there's the Charge Mixer that you can see in the background (with delicious Alfine hub gears).
And here's a steel hybrid available to the Americans:
http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/mot ... e_noir.htm
Lose the adjustable stem and ugly saddle and that could look pretty tasty to me.

Enjoy bike shopping (after all, that's what being into bikes is really about)

MountainMonster

The structural changes are often needed much more in the MTB world, as you can strategically bulk up places in the frame that need it, and still maintain fairly clean lines. On road bikes there is not anywhere near as much stress on them, so it is mostly aesthetics.

paulbox

gkerr4 wrote:

nah - i'm not buying. it's there to make them resemble the carbon posh-bikes!

They've being doing it on mtb's since way before cf became the order of the day.

fast as fupp

northstar wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Can't say I'm a big fan of aluminium(although I do have a couple in the stable) non of the long term durability of carbon and (with a few exceptions either way) a poorer ride quality.

I'd rather be riding a aluminum bike than a carbon if i was to have a collision...

and aluminium doesnt dissolve in the rain like carbon

northstar

I've heard it does...

jonny_trousers

fast as fupp wrote:

get a steel frame in reynolds 531and put some carbon forks on it

bobs yer uncle! ( and definitely not disgusting! )

Doesn't specifically have to be 531 steel, but what he says.

Oh, and you could always man up and get drop bars too

wilshawk

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Doesn't specifically have to be 531 steel, but what he says.

Oh, and you could always man up and get drop bars too

been commuting with drops the last couple of years, we've had some good times, but other times I get tired of all the leaning, also could do with better visibility of upright position (spotting crazy pedestrians waiting to jump out from behind parked cars and all that sort of thing), so thats why Im wimping out.

markos1963

northstar wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Can't say I'm a big fan of aluminium(although I do have a couple in the stable) non of the long term durability of carbon and (with a few exceptions either way) a poorer ride quality.

I'd rather be riding a aluminum bike than a carbon if i was to have a collision...

Why? Is aluminium going to protect you from a broken collerbone?
Get a ding on an ali' frame and see just how difficult and impractical it is to repair or keep an ali' frame for ten years or more and see the cracks appear.
I've seen plenty of crashes during races and club runs and non of them have had to junk their frames be it carbon or aluminium. Such a rare occurance that it doesn't matter about crash 'resistance' and I'd go for the ride quality of carbon, steel or Ti over aluminium.