Police stopped cars move onto side roads where possible!
DonDaddyD
Posts: 12,689
Right so I'm riding along Clapham Common - heading towards Clapham Common tube from Clapham South tube.
There is a blue BMW 3 series compact parked up in the cycle lane that has been stopped by police. It's hard to see on a fast moving road with traffic always to my right. Moving around it is going to be tricky.
What irks me is this:
There was a side road no more than 3 meters ahead of the BMW. Could it have hurt the police to just get the guy to turn up the side road and park there as to keep the traffic dense main road free from needless obstruction?
As I gestured this to the police one of them shouted back in that voice - designed to intimidate - completely missing the point.
There is a blue BMW 3 series compact parked up in the cycle lane that has been stopped by police. It's hard to see on a fast moving road with traffic always to my right. Moving around it is going to be tricky.
What irks me is this:
There was a side road no more than 3 meters ahead of the BMW. Could it have hurt the police to just get the guy to turn up the side road and park there as to keep the traffic dense main road free from needless obstruction?
As I gestured this to the police one of them shouted back in that voice - designed to intimidate - completely missing the point.
Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
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Totally with you there.
Same goes for them crusing down the motoway at warp10.
If they need to go fast, fine, but stick the flashy lights on to give everyone the best chance of clocking that they're shifting, eh?
If they're just trying to get into town before the doughnut shop shuts, stick to the rules of the road.0 -
Same goes for those cars with trailers loaded with Boris bikes, there's a section of cycle lane leading up to the roundabout at the top of Holborn Viaduct, in front of Sainsbury's HQ and invariably there is a Boris bike trailer and car parked in it, supposedly loading or unloading bikes onto the rack, but also quite often just parked in the bike lane doing nothingDo not write below this line. Office use only.0
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They might be trying to catch up with some Jeremy Kyle Show type Scum without alerting them.....will3 wrote:If they need to go fast, fine, but stick the flashy lights on to give everyone the best chance of clocking that they're shifting, eh?
I did have a copper in what I think was his own car (no hidden lights, but he was in uniform) almost crash into the back of me because he was texting while driving the other week. :roll:0 -
Oh, but forgot to say that usually, when I see a situation such as mentioned in the OP, I console myself with the thought that the policeman is booking the car for parking in the cycle lane :?0
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Before we get into anecdotal circumstances I will add this:
There will be circumstances where it is just not practical to get the guy to turn up a side road, I accept this.
However, in my situation there were three motorcycle police. Their bikes were on the pavement as were they. Now. If the had positioned one bike behind the car and left the blues-and-twos one it would have alerted oncoming traffic to be more cautious and give way to the lane being obstructed. Another option would be to have one of the three police officers directing traffic so that it would slow down and give way to the lane (cycle lane) that was being obstructed.
Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
It might be a hard one to organise as the car being pulled in is the one that decides where to stop. I imagine that most drivers see the flashing lights, panic, and then pull in fairly sharpish to avoid annoying the cops or looking like they'll run for it. If the copper then starts waving directions at them, then it is likely to get messy.0
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I got pulled by the police last year, in fairness I wrapped the motor round to 30mph in a 30 zone in a rather rapid way, it was 1am btw, then just coasted at 30. They heard the engine noise and came after me and put the blues on. The next safe place to stop was about 1/2 mile through town, so I pulled in there. I got quizzed as to why I didnt stop immediately, replied with there was nowhere safe and I knew this lay-by was ahead. Fair play said the copper, and we had a chat about our respective evenings.'11 Cannondale Synapse 105CD - FCN 4
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DonDaddyD wrote:Before we get into anecdotal circumstances I will add this:
There will be circumstances where it is just not practical to get the guy to turn up a side road, I accept this.
However, in my situation there were three motorcycle police. Their bikes were on the pavement as were they. Now. If the had positioned one bike behind the car and left the blues-and-twos one it would have alerted oncoming traffic to be more cautious and give way to the lane being obstructed. Another option would be to have one of the three police officers directing traffic so that it would slow down and give way to the lane (cycle lane) that was being obstructed.
Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.
you've not really thought this through have you.
Thecar is then a danger to those on side road.... The end logic is never stop a vehicle on the road.
In any event, you do not know why the car was there.
It could have been there for evidential reasons. It could be there and unable to move under its own power.
To judge the situation we need to know the full facts.
The reality is as road users, we should: -
a) be observant of road ahead to see such obstacles in advance
b) be prepared for objects to be blocking our route.
It is annoying to have something hinder your progress. Something you thing could/ should be elsewhere or not there at all.
[Now, isn't that what mortoriists say regarding cyclists?]Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
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DDD just got spended
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I'm still struggling with the bit about parked cars being difficult to see.0
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spen666 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Before we get into anecdotal circumstances I will add this:
There will be circumstances where it is just not practical to get the guy to turn up a side road, I accept this.
However, in my situation there were three motorcycle police. Their bikes were on the pavement as were they. Now. If the had positioned one bike behind the car and left the blues-and-twos one it would have alerted oncoming traffic to be more cautious and give way to the lane being obstructed. Another option would be to have one of the three police officers directing traffic so that it would slow down and give way to the lane (cycle lane) that was being obstructed.
Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.
you've not really thought this through have you.
Thecar is then a danger to those on side road.... The end logic is never stop a vehicle on the road.
In any event, you do not know why the car was there.
It could have been there for evidential reasons. It could be there and unable to move under its own power.
To judge the situation we need to know the full facts.
The reality is as road users, we should: -
a) be observant of road ahead to see such obstacles in advance
b) be prepared for objects to be blocking our route.
It is annoying to have something hinder your progress. Something you thing could/ should be elsewhere or not there at all.
[Now, isn't that what mortoriists say regarding cyclists?]
Side roads tend to be less busy than main roads, hence less potential risk and danger caused by the obstruction.
However I'll re-quote:Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.
A police vehicle behind the stopped vehicle with its blues-and-twos on in some ways would be no different to a person breaking-down and putting their hazard lights on.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I've been pulled over at a junction (defective lights) then asked to move the car to a less dangerous position across a junction. Unless the Police suspect you should not be driving or that you will try to pull off, I see no problem.davmaggs wrote:It might be a hard one to organise as the car being pulled in is the one that decides where to stop. I imagine that most drivers see the flashing lights, panic, and then pull in fairly sharpish to avoid annoying the cops or looking like they'll run for it. If the copper then starts waving directions at them, then it is likely to get messy.0 -
What's the speed limit on this road? I can't help but think these suggestions are a bit over the top unless it's over 40mph, and you should have plenty of time to recognise and deal with any hazards.0
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DonDaddyD wrote:....However I'll re-quote:Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.
A police vehicle behind the stopped vehicle with its blues-and-twos on in some ways would be no different to a person breaking-down and putting their hazard lights on.
you can't see a 2 ton lump of metal some 6 feet wide and 6 feet tall, but expect to see a light some couple of inches in size
The reality is you need to adjust your riding style if you can't see a parked car ahead in sufficient time so as not to endanger yourself or others.
Either you are:
a) not paying proper heed to the road ahead of you
b) are objecting to things being in your way
As I said before, if the latter you sound like a motorist complaining re cyclists getting in "his way"Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com
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_Brun_ wrote:What's the speed limit on this road? I can't help but think these suggestions are a bit over the top unless it's over 40mph, and you should have plenty of time to recognise and deal with any hazards.
Have you ever ridden the road I'm talking about?
Clearly I had time to recognise the hazard and move around it, I'm writing this post.
It wouldn't have hurt the police to park a bike behind the car and leave the blues and twos on. Therefore highlighting a pending obstruction to the road.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
I thought DDD had indicated that he realised that moving the car was not always an option (he gave one example, so presumably he will accept there are other reasons that might arise such as you raise). Has he not, however, made a valid point about the Police benig considerate to other road users and putting one of the m/cycles with lights on, behind, or using one of the officers (if they weren't all needed to deal wih the occupant(s)) to direct traffic?spen666 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:Before we get into anecdotal circumstances I will add this:
There will be circumstances where it is just not practical to get the guy to turn up a side road, I accept this.
However, in my situation there were three motorcycle police. Their bikes were on the pavement as were they. Now. If the had positioned one bike behind the car and left the blues-and-twos one it would have alerted oncoming traffic to be more cautious and give way to the lane being obstructed. Another option would be to have one of the three police officers directing traffic so that it would slow down and give way to the lane (cycle lane) that was being obstructed.
Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.
you've not really thought this through have you.
Thecar is then a danger to those on side road.... The end logic is never stop a vehicle on the road.
In any event, you do not know why the car was there.
It could have been there for evidential reasons. It could be there and unable to move under its own power.
To judge the situation we need to know the full facts.
The reality is as road users, we should: -
a) be observant of road ahead to see such obstacles in advance
b) be prepared for objects to be blocking our route.
It is annoying to have something hinder your progress. Something you thing could/ should be elsewhere or not there at all.
[Now, isn't that what mortoriists say regarding cyclists?]
Maybe not a 'rule' needed, just some consideration for other road users?
Sometimes there are distractions (like lots of bikes moving) so one ends up taking emergency action (moving into the path of other road users, possibly) rather than planning ahead. It is probably easier to spot the hazard if the Police help out by one of these methods.
Brun - glad you found your bike.0 -
Is this one of those threads where DDD is going to win on the Internet again? Spen, you are in for it now...
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spen666 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:....However I'll re-quote:Personally, I think a rule should be (if it already isn't) if it isn't possible to get a vehicle to stop up a side road then the police should position themselves or their vehicle in such a position as to maximise the awareness of oncoming traffic to a possible obstruction. This includes, but isn't limited to, leaving the blues-and-twos lights on.
A police vehicle behind the stopped vehicle with its blues-and-twos on in some ways would be no different to a person breaking-down and putting their hazard lights on.
you can't see a 2 ton lump of metal some 6 feet wide and 6 feet tall, but expect to see a light some couple of inches in size
The reality is you need to adjust your riding style if you can't see a parked car ahead in sufficient time so as not to endanger yourself or others.
Either you are:
a) not paying proper heed to the road ahead of you
b) are objecting to things being in your way
As I said before, if the latter you sound like a motorist complaining re cyclists getting in "his way"Clearly I had time to recognise the hazard and move around it, I'm writing this post.Have you ever ridden the road I'm talking about?It wouldn't have hurt the police to park a bike behind the car and leave the blues and twos on. Therefore highlighting a pending obstruction to the road.
It was just an observation. You (and Brun) are entitled to disagree, but I stand by my assertion. In that situation a motorcycle with lights on would have made it easier for all vehicles (and traffic in general) to move around the car because vehicles too my right (essentially two lanes of them) would have been more willing to give way.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DDD
You still haven't explained how you can see a 2" light better than a 6foot by 6 foot or so 2 ton lump of metal
The speed you are riding at you should be able to see sufficiently far ahead to take appropriate action safely - which it appears you did do.
So apparently there is no problemWant to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
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I'd expect a roof-full of flashing lights is just as likely to a greater hazard due to people rubber-necking and being otherwise distracted. I'm fairly confident that the police are reasonably well practised in knowing when and where they should be used.DonDaddyD wrote:
Have you ever ridden the road I'm talking about?_Brun_ wrote:What's the speed limit on this road? I can't help but think these suggestions are a bit over the top unless it's over 40mph, and you should have plenty of time to recognise and deal with any hazards.
Clearly I had time to recognise the hazard and move around it, I'm writing this post.
It wouldn't have hurt the police to park a bike behind the car and leave the blues and twos on. Therefore highlighting a pending obstruction to the road.
By the way, you realise the 'twos' is the siren? That might make dealing with whatever situation had occurred a little stressful.0 -
spen666 wrote:DDD
You still haven't explained how you can see a 2" light better than a 6foot by 6 foot or so 2 ton lump of metal
The speed you are riding at you should be able to see sufficiently far ahead to take appropriate action safely - which it appears you did do.
So apparently there is no problem
By this logic there is no need for hazard lights in daylight?
I mean it's easy to see a 6foot by 6foo or so 2 ton lump of steel....Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
_Brun_ wrote:I'd expect a roof-full of flashing lights is just as likely to a greater hazard due to people rubber-necking and being otherwise distracted. I'm fairly confident that the police are reasonably well practised in knowing when and where they should be used.
So you're saying that individual police officers are right, correct and just in every practice.
I was going to post links listing mistakes and human errors made by police officers, but you know I cannot actually be bothered.
OK, you know I mean the light. I known you know I mean the lights. Lets not point score. Now suck it up and chest bump.By the way, you realise the 'twos' is the siren? That might make dealing with whatever situation had occurred a little stressful.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
spen666 wrote:You still haven't explained how you can see a 2" light better than a 6foot by 6 foot or so 2 ton lump of metal
(Puts on waders...)
Are you seriously suggesting it doesn't gain your attention? Is a flashing light not more attention-grabbing than pretty much most other visual clues?Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.0 -
I was once cycling along my local cycle track when I came across a car driving slowly along it! Being used to the likes of travelling people and others occasionally riding along the path on motorbikes (against the law of course), I shouted at the car's occupants to drive elsewhere. The car stopped and the occupants showed me police ID. :shock:
What they thought they were doing driving an unmarked car along the path is anybody's guess - it's not like they were exactly undercover by the fact they were driving where cars aren't permitted. Bikes (motorbikes as the force didn't have mountain bikes at the time) would have been more practical given that they would presumable be expecting to maybe leave the path before the end (the only place the car would be able to exit).
They weren't exactly apologetic for disrupting my ride, muttering something about a "patrol" (and I had to squeeze past them off the path) and wouldn't even accept a handshake I offered them to (unnecessarily) make up for shouting at them.
Crazy. :roll:
In contrast, I'm always happy to see police cyclists out and about (though I have ironically never encountered them on the cycle paths!). Last year I also found a (marked) police car on a different section of the same path but that was different as it was the main off-road route to the sportive I was competing in and so they were a welcome security presence at 5:30am, and moved onto the verge to let me past. I happily gave them a wave.
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I don't thnk he is seriously suggesting that. He is just pointing out that DDD hadn't explained that.davis wrote:spen666 wrote:You still haven't explained how you can see a 2" light better than a 6foot by 6 foot or so 2 ton lump of metal
(Puts on waders...)
Are you seriously suggesting it doesn't gain your attention? Is a flashing light not more attention-grabbing than pretty much most other visual clues?
Brun's point about rubbernecking is valid, though.0
