Henk Lubberding & 'rules'
rick_chasey
Posts: 75,661
Was watching last night's avondetappe on Dutch TV (for a change) and they had Henk Lubberding on, who's natually celebrated as an excellent rider, but also, as a bit of a well informed motormouth.
Anyway, he was commenting on a few clips that demonstrates stuff he constantly sees in the 'new' peloton that he thinks makes it very dangerous, and, given all the chat recently about safety, it's worth having.
1st clip was at the feed section, where, firstly, the bag-holders are standing pretty much in the middle of the road handing out mussettes, with some riders riding behind them (rather than all on one side - the left of the road)
He gets angry firstly, because he thinks the feeders are making the road uncessarrily narrow, especially given the big peloton, but he gets even more angry with the few riders riding behind them. He says it's very dangerous, and, in his day (he's a bit of an old grump, but with good sense to back it up), someone, anyone, would repremand the riders for doing that.
2nd clip is one of Basso getting a wheel change. He doesn't dismount his bike. Instead he stands there astride, both feet on the floor, lifting the back wheel up. He hasn't taken the rear wheel out before the mechanic gets there.
Here Henk has a few gripes. #1, Basso should get off his bike, and get rid of the wheel. #2 the mechanics all clearly need practice to get quicker at the changes, especially given the more shapely bikes which can make it difficult.
He then goes on about puncture etiquette. He says if you do it properly, ride on with your puncture, hand up, stay to the right, and when you do stop, make it as easy as possible for the mechanic, there isn't remotely a need for radios.
3rd - clip - a rider gets a gilet caught in his rear wheel. He moves over to the left side of the road, to get it out.
Henk flips out about this. Apparently, it's an explicit rule that, (unless you're in Britain or Australia) you ALWAYS stop on the right hand side of the road. It's obviously dangerous if a rider is stopped on the wrong side of the road, since the cars behind can't work out what's going on.
He also has a go at the team car for stopping behind said rider on the left hand side. Why isn't the rider being told off?
He then throws it to the other riders and ex riders who are sitting around the table with him, and they all concur, they were the rules, and when they were juniors, especially in the Dutch and Flemish one day races (they're all Dutch), they were drilled quite hard to follow them. Lubberding seems to feel that these basic road racing rules, ones that don't really get mentioned on TV since they're dull, need to be reinforced for rider's safety, especially at bigger races, where there are bigger entourages and pelotons, since riders are clearly either not abiding by them or don't know about them.
Anyway, that might all be very boring and dull, especially since you haven't seen it and can't understand him, but I found it fascinating.
I would post a clip but I can't find one.
Anyway, he was commenting on a few clips that demonstrates stuff he constantly sees in the 'new' peloton that he thinks makes it very dangerous, and, given all the chat recently about safety, it's worth having.
1st clip was at the feed section, where, firstly, the bag-holders are standing pretty much in the middle of the road handing out mussettes, with some riders riding behind them (rather than all on one side - the left of the road)
He gets angry firstly, because he thinks the feeders are making the road uncessarrily narrow, especially given the big peloton, but he gets even more angry with the few riders riding behind them. He says it's very dangerous, and, in his day (he's a bit of an old grump, but with good sense to back it up), someone, anyone, would repremand the riders for doing that.
2nd clip is one of Basso getting a wheel change. He doesn't dismount his bike. Instead he stands there astride, both feet on the floor, lifting the back wheel up. He hasn't taken the rear wheel out before the mechanic gets there.
Here Henk has a few gripes. #1, Basso should get off his bike, and get rid of the wheel. #2 the mechanics all clearly need practice to get quicker at the changes, especially given the more shapely bikes which can make it difficult.
He then goes on about puncture etiquette. He says if you do it properly, ride on with your puncture, hand up, stay to the right, and when you do stop, make it as easy as possible for the mechanic, there isn't remotely a need for radios.
3rd - clip - a rider gets a gilet caught in his rear wheel. He moves over to the left side of the road, to get it out.
Henk flips out about this. Apparently, it's an explicit rule that, (unless you're in Britain or Australia) you ALWAYS stop on the right hand side of the road. It's obviously dangerous if a rider is stopped on the wrong side of the road, since the cars behind can't work out what's going on.
He also has a go at the team car for stopping behind said rider on the left hand side. Why isn't the rider being told off?
He then throws it to the other riders and ex riders who are sitting around the table with him, and they all concur, they were the rules, and when they were juniors, especially in the Dutch and Flemish one day races (they're all Dutch), they were drilled quite hard to follow them. Lubberding seems to feel that these basic road racing rules, ones that don't really get mentioned on TV since they're dull, need to be reinforced for rider's safety, especially at bigger races, where there are bigger entourages and pelotons, since riders are clearly either not abiding by them or don't know about them.
Anyway, that might all be very boring and dull, especially since you haven't seen it and can't understand him, but I found it fascinating.
I would post a clip but I can't find one.
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I found it interesting.
I think the Basso wheel change is still right. They usually get off.
The first clip, what was his problem with the riders behind?
Third clip - The side you pull off to, no idea.
The thing with rules, particularly unwritten ones, is that they evolve. It's not Henk's time anymore.Twitter: @RichN950 -
I’m sure Lubberding is right about criticizing Basso not helping the mechanics. Some riders have lost their sense of values, perhaps based on their salaries and what they expect 'underlings' to do.
On ITV4 last week, in a little film sketch, Boardman showed how a rider just waits for a mechanic to come and solve the rider's problems, but (as rider) Boardman then neither helped nor showed any gratitude (he stayed straddled over the crossbar). In fact Boardman showed irritation at the delay, and although this might have been for entertainment value, and I imagine Boardman isn't a bad guy in himself, seemingly he hasn't yet fully recognised the importance of his helpers/mechanics.
On the other hand, this isn't always the the case - there was a post the other day about how a Katusha (?) rider did help the mechanic (the rider removed the defective front wheel before team car arrived, so the exchange went far quicker).
Re pulling in to the right-hand side of the road, if you’ve ever been to a pre-race talk at a cyclosportive or amateur race on the Continent, you will have learnt that when you have problems you always stop on the right hand side of the road. So if any European-based professional rider (presumably with experience of amateur races in Europe) doesn’t do this, Lubberding has a right to be flipped out.0 -
RichN95 wrote:I found it interesting.
The first clip, what was his problem with the riders behind?
It's very dangerous for the bag handlers, who aren't expecting the riders either side.
The handlers might need to move to-and-from the side of the road, or might have to move back to let more riders through.
He says in a situation where riders go both sides, the handlers have nowhere to go if things go wrong.0 -
Maybe Basso is like me and if he tried to "help" change a wheel he'd just make it worse?Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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Rick Chasey wrote:iainf72 wrote:Maybe Basso is like me and if he tried to "help" change a wheel he'd just make it worse?
It's his job right? He should learn :P
No, his job is to ride a bike, not fix it if it's broken.
I've always liked bikes but I have no interest in how they work mechanically or in how to fix them.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
it's not exactly tricky to remove a wheel :roll:0
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derbygrimpeur wrote:it's not exactly tricky to remove a wheel :roll:
Can I have your mobile for when my 6 speed Brompton with hub gear PLUS derailleur PLUS non standard fixings & no QR gets a rear flat
___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
ride a proper bike :P 0
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derbygrimpeur wrote:ride a proper bike :P
The others are, but I never have them with me when the Brompton punctures!___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
don't ride the brompton then 0
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iainf72 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:iainf72 wrote:Maybe Basso is like me and if he tried to "help" change a wheel he'd just make it worse?
It's his job right? He should learn :P
No, his job is to ride a bike, not fix it if it's broken.
I've always liked bikes but I have no interest in how they work mechanically or in how to fix them.
A bad wheel change can cost you in a race.
My job isn't to fix my computer when it breaks, but it makes my job a lot easier if I can.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:
A bad wheel change can cost you in a race.
My job isn't to fix my computer when it breaks, but it makes my job a lot easier if I can.
Exactly. So a bad wheel change can cost you a race - Perhap the mechanic has said "please don't try take the wheel out, it messes with my flow"
I'd agree he should've got off the bike, but that's about it.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
derbygrimpeur wrote:don't ride the brompton then
Wish I'd thought of that when I was honking over the Jaizkibel on it. Doh.___________________
Strava is not Zen.0 -
calvjones wrote:when I was honking over the Jaizkibel .
Is that what the young people call it these days? I presume Jaizkibel is some foreign trollop with elastic virtues and cosmopolitan tendencies?
(does she have a sister?)'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
the 3rd one - stopping on the right not the left hand side of the road is explicitly in the tour de france rules. I suspect it's in other race rules, or some global UCI rules too.0
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patchy wrote:iainf72 wrote:Maybe Basso is like me and if he tried to "help" change a wheel he'd just make it worse?
what does he do if he punctures on a training ride? Stand there until someone turns up?
Well, he tried to fix one on a training ride in Italy in May but it blew up in his face and he had to pretend to everyone that he'd had a crash.'This week I 'ave been mostly been climbing like Basso - Shirley Basso.'0 -
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"Abiding by" and "enforcing" unwritten rules..... how do you suggest that's going to work out than? slap them round the head with the unwritten rule book I guess?0
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skylla wrote:"Abiding by" and "enforcing" unwritten rules..... how do you suggest that's going to work out than? slap them round the head with the unwritten rule book I guess?
The feed station and stopping on the left are proper rules, as opposed to unwritten ones.
They should be properly enforced.
The puncture one is a 'rule' he feels teams should implement internally to get their riders into good habbits.0
