Where do i stand?

Flyingbogey

Next door were having building work recently during which they damaged a four glass panels in a covered walkway belonging to me.
One was already cracked and i had lived with this for years. As they were replacing the others at their expense i asked the builders for an estimate for the one which was not their fault.
I never received an estimate but they replaced the whole lot which at the time i thought was a goodwill gesture. Since then i have received a bill (imo way too much) i have refused to pay and they now want to come and remove the glass or pay up.
Where do i stand?

Gazzaputt

They come and remove the glass but they have to reinstate the old pane of glass.

Ask them to reinstate to how it was previous to their work.

motopatter

Gazzaputt wrote:

They come and remove the glass but they have to reinstate the old pane of glass.

Ask them to reinstate to how it was previous to their work.

yeah, I'd like to see 'em do that. Cowboys

MonkeyMonster

Gazzaputt wrote:

They come and remove the glass but they have to reinstate the old pane of glass.

Ask them to reinstate to how it was previous to their work.

Exactly this - they said they'd replace the other ones they had broken and have done extra work for you that hasn't been asked for. Tell them to therefore to return the broken one given they needed to replace the 3 they broke.

First.Aspect

Should be a sraighforward contract law issue shouldn't it? On the face of it, there doesn't seem to have been a contract in place for the final pane, and that they are trying to rerospectively impose t&c's. Not that this will stop them from getting agro and causing you all manner of stress, or selling the "debt" on to someone who will hassle you further.

How much of this is in writing, how much verbal etc?

In any case, in our position I'd get myself a couple of independent quotes for comparison.

daviesee

MonkeyMonster wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

They come and remove the glass but they have to reinstate the old pane of glass.

Ask them to reinstate to how it was previous to their work.

Exactly this - they said they'd replace the other ones they had broken and have done extra work for you that hasn't been asked for. Tell them to therefore to return the broken one given they needed to replace the 3 they broke.

Wouldn't they simply crack the new one?

essex-commuter

daviesee wrote:

Wouldn't they simply crack the new one?

That would be the worst case scenario (without resorting to violence!), but everything would be back to square one so the OP could get it repaired himself, hopefully at a cheaper price.

Flyingbogey

They have almost certainly 'skipped' the old one. To ask £180 for a standard pane of glass is taking the pi22, The Polski builders are not the problem, its the Project Manager! nothing in writing, I was waiting for a quote having been honest and upfront about the rogue pane and they just got on with it when I was out. Now most of next door is re furb'd they don't have the same level of access.

rjsterry

Works not instructed = they can whistle for it, or as said reinstate the previous work. Having said that, what do you think would be a fair price? Maybe make them an offer (making clear that the alternative is reinstatement to the original condition). If they've got any sense, they'll take the money. As you say, there is no way they will have carefully kept a piece of cracked glass just in case, so arguably, reinstatement is what you have already.

BTW, the £180 will probably have been worked out as a separate job: labour for an hour or so (half day) + materials + OH&P, so quite easy to legitimately (although not competitively) make it up to £180.

BTW2, overhead glass really wants to be 'safety' glass (toughened or laminated) so that if for some reason it does come down, it doesn't cut whoever is underneath to ribbons.

Gussio

rjsterry wrote:

BTW2, overhead glass really wants to be 'safety' glass (toughened or laminated) so that if for some reason it does come down, it doesn't cut whoever is underneath to ribbons.

+1 - you ought to be able to see a kite mark...

Flyingbogey

Cheers, I'll check that.

Ben6899

Crap Project Manager FTW! He has no means to recoup the cost (basically carrying out additional work without a notice for it) and his manager will be breathing down his neck.

FAIL.

legin

if you make an offer include the words without prejudice.should the case then go to court and they judge in your favour they would not hold you to the figure you offered.

Flyingbogey

The PM has just been to visit to inform me the if I don't pay (which i wont) she will instruct debt collectors! Can she do this? I don't owe her a penny and told her she can have her window back but bring back mine.

jzed

Flyingbogey wrote:

The PM has just been to visit to inform me the if I don't pay (which i wont) she will instruct debt collectors! Can she do this? I don't owe her a penny and told her she can have her window back but bring back mine.

Make her an offer, debt collectors will take a cut and for the amount of money involved I imagine it would be a big chunk.

Wrath Rob

Tell her if she doesn't eff of you'll get trading standards involved. As has been said, there was no agreement to do the 4th pane. I suspect that you could persue costs from them if you were so inclined

mmuk

a friend of mine came home one day to find that his upstairs windows had all been replaced - they had meant to be next door!

They asked him to pay 'a full price' so he asked them to reinstate the old ones.

In the end, they had to agree that they could not, and they also had to accept that he had never asked them to do the work, and therefore did not chase for any payment

Kieran_Burns

Favourite story I was told by the (then) Chief Trading Standards Officer of Derby City Council

He'd put his car in for some new tyres (I think it was) and enquired after the cost of a full Service

When he came back to get the car, he found that they had done the tyres and given the car a full service and demanded he pay for everything.

His comment was "thank you for doing that work on my car at your own expense"

Basically he said what has been said here: unless they can put everything back EXACTLY how it was before the unauthorised work was done he leaves without paying. In his case, it was all the same spark plugs, filters, OIL (ONLY his oil please note) etc etc.

He didn't pay.

spen666

Try making a complaint to the police of
1. Making an unwarranted demand for money with menaces
2. Harassment under Protection from Harassment Act
3. Breach of S40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 - (look it up). It is a great thing to throw at companies who chase you for debts and it doesn't matter if debt is owing or not, it still applies.


Alternatively, ask the PM (presuming you mean Project Manager and not David Cameron) to provide you with the legal basis for her demanding the money. If she argues it is a contractual arrangement, then ask to see a copy of the contract with written evidence of your agreement to the same.

davmaggs

Going back to old law lectures (real lawyers please correct me) you can't seize materials that have been incorporated into a building. This is what stuffs double glazing firms or brickies when people don't pay up.

In terms of the debt collectors; what debt? It is absolute nonsense and just hot air as you have no agreement with them and no court judgement that can be enforced so they wouldn't take the case. Ignore that completely.

If you want to be nice then grab a yellow pages and ring around 4 firms for quotes in front of the PM. Then pay them the going rate and get a receipt.

The Rookie

She can instruct debt collecetrors, so what, they have no more power than him (DC's are not bailiffs) and if you dispute the debt (you do) they have to refer it back to the her.

"Debt collector" sounds frighting, in reality they have no more power than if I turn up at your door demanding money.

Simon

Flyingbogey

Thanks guys, was getting a bit stressed but some reassuring messages to come back with.