Long Travel Hardtail

angry_bird

So I'm massively toying with the idea of building a 150/160mm hardtail at the moment, for use downhilll, and very very rarely just around trail centres. Got the money to build one how I'd like within reason

Firstly, I've been looking at on-one 456s and am struggling to make my mind up between the normal 456 or the 456 summer season. I know the summer season has slacker angles but does anyone know if I were running a 150mm fork would they be stupidly slack?

If anyone has any other suggestions for frames I'd be glad to hear them.

Secondly forks, anything Fox is probably going to be out of budget slightly, so at the moment I'm thinking RockShox, been pondering Sektors, Revs or even Domains or maybe Lyriks possibly, price/travel dependent. What are peoples opinions on these forks as options. Personally I think I'd rather have a nice coil Sektor than an air Revelation, but then someone suggested Domains or Lyriks if I could find 160mm version. Now I'm just struggling to decide. Any thoughts?

supersonic

It is too slack for my tastes, and the build somewhat crude - the standard 456 is lighter. Both are great for the money though, not many long travel frames are this cheap. The 456 is even lighter than an Orange P7.

Revelation everytime if choosing between that and a Sektor. Is lighter, more adjustable and some really good bargains about. Lyrik is the hard man's choice: Domain is a budget version, but does pack weight.

Torres

I built something similar a while back - NS core frame (same as the surge) with u-turn domains.

It was heavyer than the moon, but it worked and i loved it With the forks wound down it wasn't a chore to pedal and i took it round plenty of trail centres.

rockmonkeysc

I have got a 456 Summer Season with 160mm RS Domains. Yes it is very slack but if you want it mainly for downhill then you will want slack geometry. It's awesome fun to ride & surprisingly quick downhill, most of my mates ride Giant Glory's & Orange Patriots & I can keep up with them on even the gnarliest trails & have more fun than them. I have done a couple of uplift days with it and it handles all the abuse I can throw at it including big jumps & drops and rock gardens.
I have got u-turn forks & have tried running them at 140mm and that would be good for trail centre riding but it's not slack enough for really hairy stuff. I would go for either a Lyrik or Domain if you want to ride hard, the extra rigidity helps keep you pointing where you want to go.
Mine will pedal up hills pretty well but like just about any bike, with dual ply tyres & heavy downhill wheels it's hardwork but if I fit my xc wheels it flies up hill.

angry_bird

Cool, cheers for the feedback guys, given me some stuff to think about.

So sonic ignoring the weights, because I'm not too fussed about them on this bike, and given the choice between a 110-150mm u-turn coil sektor and a 140mm rev you'd chose the rev then?

kenan

I had a summer session with a U-Turn rev and it was a great bike, mailny used if for trail centre stuff etc. I went up and round well but when pointing downhill it really came alive.

I changed the frame for the 456 carbon which is faster for general XC stuff but isn't as sure footed downhill. I would 100% go for the Summer Session for what your looking to use it for.

rockmonkeysc

If your not worried about weight go for the Domains or Lyriks, the extra rigidity from the bigger stanchions helps when things get gnarley plus Domains are bombproof & will take as much abuse as you can throw at them. I would go for coil rather than air as well, it just feels better & is less to go wrong.

BlueAdvocate

Angry Bird wrote:

So I'm massively toying with the idea of building a 150/160mm hardtail at the moment, for use downhilll, and very very rarely just around trail centres. Got the money to build one how I'd like within reason

Firstly, I've been looking at on-one 456s and am struggling to make my mind up between the normal 456 or the 456 summer season. I know the summer season has slacker angles but does anyone know if I were running a 150mm fork would they be stupidly slack?

If anyone has any other suggestions for frames I'd be glad to hear them.

Secondly forks, anything Fox is probably going to be out of budget slightly, so at the moment I'm thinking RockShox, been pondering Sektors, Revs or even Domains or maybe Lyriks possibly, price/travel dependent. What are peoples opinions on these forks as options. Personally I think I'd rather have a nice coil Sektor than an air Revelation, but then someone suggested Domains or Lyriks if I could find 160mm version. Now I'm just struggling to decide. Any thoughts?

For a frame alternative, what about Ragley's bagger 228, takes 150-170mm fork. I'm no Ragley "fanboi"; just a thought that's all.

angry_bird

Oooh now that is tempting

nicklouse

I would not bother.

If you want a long travel HT for playing on the down build a fully with less overall travel. EG 150/150 you will have a bike that is a lot better.

The Northern Monkey

wouldn't bother with a rev for DH duties... I found it had a bit of flex, even with 20mm maxle which was a bit off putting.

If you want to build it properly, go for a domain or lyric.

Loads of domain 318 160mm knocking around in the classifieds on other sites. They're strong a fook so a good service should have anything back to working order.

A long travel HT is great fun, I do miss mine!

rockmonkeysc

I would agree that a full sus DH bike is faster BUT a long travel DH/FR hardtail is much more fun. I have tried Glory's, Demo 8's, Session's & an Orange 224 and could easily ride them faster but they just didn't make me grin like an idiot
To ride a hardtail downhill fast you have to really work hard and pick lines well plus you soon learn that jumping rough sections is a lot easier than riding them so you tend to get more air time than full sus riders. Also there is something strangely satisfying about chasing full sus riders down a DH trail on a hardtail

supersonic

Rev over a Sektor - that said, the Sektors in Maxle have come down in price a bit, and if you do get one, has to be the RL.

But as above for extreme duties, Lyrik or Domain.

What is your total budget?

angry_bird

Cool, cheers guys, good stuff so far

The budget is about £1300-1400, could go over it if I really feel like it though

supersonic

How DH is your downhill?

The Northern Monkey

supersonic wrote:

How DH is your downhill?

+potato

angry_bird

I'm aiming to spend a fair bit of time in wales, cwmcarn, some other the stuff up near aberystwyth because my cousin is at uni there.

Having said that once I'm back at uni I'll be limited to aston hill for the majority of my time simply because it's the easiest place for me to get to, and to be honest some of those I've ridden on the orange

If it makes any difference I'm not a massively heavy rider, weigh 11.5st in riding gear.

supersonic

Is there big drops ie several feet, large jumps, big boulders, that sort of stuff?

The Northern Monkey

My revs were ok down Cwmcarn, but as I said... flexy. Definitely used 150mm down there!

Big drops, large jumps and some big boulders

angry_bird

Big drops, jumps boulders etc. will be featuring in the riding yes (although not at aston hill, I found it to be a little tame there )

supersonic

Ah! I was wondering whether the standard carbon 456 SLX off the peg was the best bet, but now I think you do require the bigger forks. If custom buildinbg I'd certainly drop the majortity of the money on the forks, then frame and wheels. SOme ggod deals on Lyriks - from £400.

rockmonkeysc

Big drops, jumps boulders etc. will be featuring in the riding yes (although not at aston hill, I found it to be a little tame there )

Thats exactly what I use my Summer Season for. The frame is more than capable, I regularly ride 6-8 foot drops double jumps big rock gardens etc. Big drops can be uncomfotable if the landing isn't great but that's the same as any hardtail.
You will be wanting 35mm/36mm stanchions & 150mm/160mm travel so either Domains, Lyriks or Fox 36's.
I haven't done Cwmcarn on mine yet but I have done Triscombe DH tracks a few times & some locall DH tracks plus a couple of freeride sessions at the local quarry.