Breakaways - educate me

Crozza

This is only the second TDF that I have followed with any serious interest. One thought that occurs to me every day is why do 4-8 riders in every stage go for it from the gun? I have yet to see any of these breakaways stick - the peloton is kept constantly informed of the gap and manages it, and invariably reels them in with plenty of time before the finish.

Take today's stage - do these 4 guys think they can seriously outrun the 180+ others over 200km?

what am I missing?

Turfle

Sometimes the peloton gets it wrong. Sometimes the mix of riders is acceptable to all teams and the peloton let them go. Sometimes a crash or series of crashes at the right time slows the peloton enough and the escapees stay away.

Getting air-time for your sponsors also has value.

But yes, being in the break today seems more pointless than usual.

crescent

Sometimes it is just a chance for some of the riders to get a bit of TV coverage for the sponsors or the team, in the case of the French riders this occasionally happens if the stage goes through their local area. If a GC rider was to make a breakaway then they would be chased down very quickly as the other GC contenders would not want to lose any time to them. The breakaway riders tend not to be contenders for GC though. You are right about them not maintaining the lead as the peloton know exactly what the time difference is and also know when to crank up the pace to reel them in. If there were no breakaways then, in theory, the whole field could just plod away and drift in together at fairly leisurely pace as they would all be given the same time more or less. In that sense the breakaway riders are responsible for ensuring that the GC contenders and the peloton in general maintain a quick pace throughout the stage. It is a complicated business the TdF, I have been watching it for years and still learn something every year. Fascinating viewing though, especially next week when the mountains stages start and the field is strung out all over the place. Thats where all the big time differences occur and the tour is won and lost generally speaking.

graeme_s-2

From a team perspective, if you get a rider in the break, then presumably the rest of the team basically get the day off and can just sit in the peloton with no incentive whatsoever to chase.

rubertoe

Turfle wrote:

Sometimes the peloton gets it wrong. Sometimes the mix of riders is acceptable to all teams and the peloton let them go. Sometimes a crash or series of crashes at the right time slows the peloton enough and the escapees stay away.

Getting air-time for your sponsors also has value.

But yes, being in the break today seems more pointless than usual.

its this - and also sometimes they stick.

look at yesterdays stage - although it didn't stick - Crazy Jonny H - gained the Polka dot Jersey - which he couldn't have done if in the peloton and this alone gets alot of valuable air/news/picture time which is what the sponsors want.

Its also better than remaining anonymous in the peloton for 3 weeks

cogidubnus

Comes down to TV exposure. Same in F1 there is no advantage to going out on track early in qualifying as there is no rubber on track,but yet the small teams are always the first out to get tv exposure for their sponsers.

And with breakaways you never know the peloton might cock up and they stay away

rick_chasey

Also, the Tour is especially notorious for the very formulaic break goes, gets caught within last 10km, bunch/large group finish.

In races where it matters less and the parcours is a little less predictable, breaks can be used for many tactical reasons.

If a team as a rider in the breakaway, they can legitimately say: "We're all going to sit in the peloton doing nothing, since we don't want to jeopardise our teammate's chance", so it takes the pressure off the team.

It can also bring a lesser rider who could otherwise not keep up with the favourites in the finale into the mix, since he can get to said point with a distinct time advantage, whether that's to help a teammate, or to just be in the mix.

I'd suggest, if you enjoy the Tour, you'll love cycling the rest of the year. Take it from Spanish hero Oscar Freire:

"The Tour is the most boring race of the year. In the flat stages, you have a breakaway, then a sprint. In the mountain stages, the same riders are at the front every time. The Tour of Flanders: that is a real race."

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/8083/ ... -year.aspx

Crozza

Gotcha, thanks guys.

Looks like a pretty thankless task though! still, slaving away for 5 hours for no reward sounds like most Sunday mornings to me

rajMAN

In the days of Steven Roche, Delgado, Fignon etc there used to be what I think was called a "Royal" breakaway, meaning the big hitters got away in a group. Now that used to be a different ball game and very interesting to watch. It does not seem to happen at all now whether that's because of the way the sport has developed in terms of race radio's or more orchestrated racing or simply that the big hitters don't ride in the vain of people like Claudio Chiapucci. It is a shame really as it makes for very good viewing.

shinyhelmut

Crozza wrote:

Looks like a pretty thankless task though! still, slaving away for 5 hours for no reward sounds like most Sunday mornings to me

In '06 a bunch broke away and were allowed to go by the peloton. One of them was Oscar Periero. The break gained about 30 minutes, this was enough to earn Periero the yellow jersey which he held on to until the final TT, where Floyd Landis took it from him, and we all know what happened next.

If you're not a sprinter or a climber then about the only chance you have of winning a tour stage is to take a flyer once in a while. If it doesn't work out, at least you end up with the respect of FrenchFighter

RichN95.

rajMAN wrote:

In the days of Steven Roche, Delgado, Fignon etc there used to be what I think was called a "Royal" breakaway, meaning the big hitters got away in a group. Now that used to be a different ball game and very interesting to watch. It does not seem to happen at all now whether that's because of the way the sport has developed in terms of race radio's or more orchestrated racing or simply that the big hitters don't ride in the vain of people like Claudio Chiapucci. It is a shame really as it makes for very good viewing.

I think the main difference is the make up of the teams. Back in the 80s a team would generally be composed of riders from the sponsor's nation and have a variety of rider types.

HTC on the other hand have two Americans, two Australians, and Austrian, a Slovakian, a Dane, a German and Brit largely slected to achieve a single goal.

crescent

In the mid 80s, Robert Millar famously lost out in the Spanish Vuelta when Delgado broke away, while Millar had punctured I believe? There were other factors involved - the break was not communicated to Millar early enough and several of the Spanish teams assisted Delgado and no other teams would ride in support of Millar.

Gingerflash

"Looks like a pretty thankless task though"

Not necessarily. Someone like Hoogerland might not win Tour stages or massive races but the coverage he gives his sponsors and the attacking, entertaining reputation he has means that he'll be able to command a much higher salary than his results would otherwise justify.

"sign me up: - I might not win loads, but I'll be on TV every day and people will talk about me".

I think most fans love the breakaways and really hope they make it before the bullyboy teams spoil the fun and turn it into another bunch sprint. The breakaway specialists like Hoogerland, Voeckler, Chavannel etc are some of the most popular riders around.

It's often heart-breaking when they're caught 100m from the line, after 100km+ out front. Their teammates, managers and sponsors would still regard that as something well worth having though.

Dave-M

Didn't Chavannel manage a pretty impressive solo ride for a stage win last year?

graeme_s-2

I think there's something about futile breakaways that matches the generally masochistic nature of cycling. There's something quite romantic about a long breakaway even when it inevitably doesn't succeed. I still vividly remember Millar getting caught in the last 1km in Barcelona in 2009, or Wiggins being out by himself all day in 2007 before the sprint teams got themselves organised and reeled him in.

Neither of those results show on the rider's palmarès or show up on the results sheets of those stages, but they provide happy memories, especially when it's a rider you like.

Gingerflash

Yes he did. Stages 2 (the Spa thing) and stage 7.

He won one in 2008 over another baroudeur, Jeremy Roy.

cogidubnus

ShinyHelmut wrote:

If you're not a sprinter or a climber then about the only chance you have of winning a tour stage is to take a flyer once in a while. If it doesn't work out, at least you end up with the respect of FrenchFighter

lol +1

Abdoujaparov

Does anyone think the TV exposure argument might be a bit overdone?

I've been thinking about it and I can't really see how getting in a doomed break is going to help the sponsor increase sales/achieve some other business objective in any significant way. Particularly when you consider the type of companies that sponsor many teams.

Advertising isn't just about getting exposure it's about something much more specific - normally helping convert someone on the cusp of buying your product/service into a customer.

Hmm, that's a bit of an over-simplification, but I still think a lot of money is wasted by companies that are ill-suited to sponsoring a cycling team.

OffTheBackAdam

I'd say the best-known one was the "Great Escape" of the 1990 TdF, where Chiappucci, Bauer, Maassen + Pensec got a lead of 10-35 .
http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/c ... de-france/

hammerite

Dave-M wrote:

Didn't Chavannel manage a pretty impressive solo ride for a stage win last year?

Yes, and not wanting to belittle his efforts, it was on the stage where Cancellara got the peloton to sit up and ride together at a steady pace following a load of crashes.

Breakaways take another dimension later on in the race, like Hoogerland who hoovered up the KoM points and took the polka dot jersey, you might end up with a rider getting in a break to take points and edge closer to taking a jersey. The other year following the Cavendish/Hushovd spat where Cav got relegated Hushovd taught Cav a lesson. On a mountain stage got in the break and took intermediate sprint points, he managed to put the green jersey out of Cav's reach.

Pokerface

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Does anyone think the TV exposure argument might be a bit overdone?

I've been thinking about it and I can't really see how getting in a doomed break is going to help the sponsor increase sales/achieve some other business objective in any significant way. Particularly when you consider the type of companies that sponsor many teams.

Advertising isn't just about getting exposure it's about something much more specific - normally helping convert someone on the cusp of buying your product/service into a customer.

Hmm, that's a bit of an over-simplification, but I still think a lot of money is wasted by companies that are ill-suited to sponsoring a cycling team.

Let's put it this way - each sponsor sells some sort of product to the general public. Next time you (as a cycling enthusiast) happen to need that product, you MAY remember their name and be persuaded to buy/use their product.

That's sort of how advertising works. There are no guarantees, but it's all about getting their company name top of mind.

(I previously never knew Quickstep sold flooring, HTC sold phones, etc, etc)

rick_chasey

In Formula one, I know sponsors pay very close attention to the 'time spent on screen' stats.

I can imagine it's similar for cycling.

Gingerflash

"Advertising isn't just about getting exposure it's about something much more specific - normally helping convert someone on the cusp of buying your product/service into a customer. "

I disagree. In the case of Specilaized, Sidi or whoever, then yes it's about persuading people to buy your product because a certain rider or team uses them.

With other, non-cycling brands, it either about increasing brand awareness or a vanity/fun exercise by the rich owner of a business.

Sky is a bit of both - they want to get into some more euro markets and James Murdoch just wanted his own cycling team.

For brand awareness, simple exposure is often all they want. Someone at Festina once said that the infamous doping affair did more for sales than any race win. It just made the brand better known, not for anything specific, but just more familiar to people.

inkyfingers

When I bought new flooring for my house I saw a display in the shop with a Quickstep logo on it and went straight over to look. I suddenly realised that all that advertising had worked!

rajMAN

Could do with another Jacky Durand! well at least the French could. :shock:

Cleat Eastwood

In terms of pure airtime the breakaway is a godsend and real value for money. Consider at the ad break of a highly rated tv prog airtime could cost you 10's of thousands for 30 secs. These guys offer the sponsors 4-5 hours constant TV presence.


Kelly once said on eurosport a while back that its a shame tv coverage doesnt show the start of the race as as many as 10-20 breakaway attempts take place, many with larger groups than 6-8, and all viewers see are the breakaways deemed non threatening to the GC. Exciting stuff though, you have to be a special rider I think to find the courage to stay outthere hours on end.

shockedsoshocked

rubertoe wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Sometimes the peloton gets it wrong. Sometimes the mix of riders is acceptable to all teams and the peloton let them go. Sometimes a crash or series of crashes at the right time slows the peloton enough and the escapees stay away.

Getting air-time for your sponsors also has value.

But yes, being in the break today seems more pointless than usual.

its this - and also sometimes they stick.

look at yesterdays stage - although it didn't stick - Crazy Jonny H - gained the Polka dot Jersey - which he couldn't have done if in the peloton and this alone gets alot of valuable air/news/picture time which is what the sponsors want.

Its also better than remaining anonymous in the peloton for 3 weeks

2009 I think, the battle for the polka dot jersey was better than GC, Pellizotti, Garzelli and Moncoutie battling for the KoM points every day.

Stoo48

Over here on Versus we get a full 4-5 hour coverage of the whole stage, it drive my wife nuts, but this way with the time difference I can record it at run it through at 3x speed sstopping at the interesting bits....

This way we see the start of the break away...

greg66_tri_v2.0

Most effective breakaway was surely Pereiro et al in 2006. 30 mins, and (after a slight reshuffle after the event) won him the Tour.

Hinzy9

Do members of the breakaways still get chance to answer the call of nature? Or do they hold it in for 6 hours? :shock:

RichN95.

Hinzy9 wrote:

Do members of the breakaways still get chance to answer the call of nature? Or do they hold it in for 6 hours? :shock:

The riders who get in the break have generally planned to be there so they will have drunk a bit less and made sure they went before they left.