Advice for the Sprint

rogerthecat
rogerthecat Posts: 669
edited July 2011 in Amateur race
Sorry if this has been covered before, I am not much use with the search on this site. I have just started racing 2 this week and even though I can hold my own, where I am found wanting is in the closing stages, today I found myself at the front more often than not, and thats okay, however the last 100m the sprint to finish started and I ended up placed 7 rather than 1.

I find it realy hard to sit in the pack and bimble along as if on a commute to work. So happy to work hard on the front.

Any tips,

Comments

  • Rule74Please
    Rule74Please Posts: 307
    If you find it easy on the front FORCE the pace and reduce the size of the field. Some here will call it a break away but it is just you have left the rest behind. 6 is the magic number to make a break work if you all commit.

    Other than that leave a bit more in reserve and be in the first 3 out of the last bend
  • rogerthecat
    rogerthecat Posts: 669
    Sound advice, thanks
  • Herbsman
    Herbsman Posts: 2,029
    Go on a solo breakaway. This has worked for me twice when the pace was so low it felt like a gentle club ride
    CAPTAIN BUCKFAST'S CYCLING TIPS - GUARANTEED TO WORK! 1 OUT OF 10 RACING CYCLISTS AGREE!
  • StageWinner
    StageWinner Posts: 202
    6 is the magic number to make a break work if you all commit.


    Really? No break of 5 people has ever worked? Or 4 people? Is this a scientific fact?

    I guess you must have found this bit of science the same place you found all that science of riding in the drops :roll:
  • rogerthecat
    rogerthecat Posts: 669
    6 is the magic number to make a break work if you all commit.


    Really? No break of 5 people has ever worked? Or 4 people? Is this a scientific fact?

    I guess you must have found this bit of science the same place you found all that science of riding in the drops :roll:

    M8 I took 6 as the Optimum number, obviously a group of less can break away, and last years TDF a solo rider won a stage ( Fabian Cancellara i think)
  • Pseudonym
    Pseudonym Posts: 1,032
    there is no 'optimum' number for a break - that's nonsense. All you need for a successful break is a rider - or group of riders - strong enough to stay away...
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,817
    few things :
    Positioning in the bunch - know the lead-up to the line, is there a corner or roundabout shortly before it ? be close to the front but not on the front unless there is a feature that means that first man out of that will have a big advantage.
    Also be aware of not getting boxed-in, sometimes you can sneak up gaining lots of places on the inside but more often that will be risky and you have to back-off as gaps narrow.
    If it is a hill finish then often riders go to early and run out of steam - let them do that but also don't be stuck behind them as they slow and you are starting to get going.
    If you have a big 'jump' then you can afford to sit behind others then kick, if you haven't then pick the point that allows you to wind it up and go from there as hard as possible.
    Be prepared to save energy in the last few miles, don't sit on the front giving others shelter., only go to the front for a definite reason, not to just help drag everyone else along that will then jump you with 200m to go.
    Take a risk sometimes, at maybe 1 or 2 kms to go think about not waiting along with everyone else but getting out of the pack, is there a rise, a corner etc that you can attack from that you could gain a gap ? Sometimes you'll just get chased down but sometimes I've seen a bunch collectively think 'Ok, that's him away, will wait and save energy for the sprint for 2nd'. Worth a try, you won't know if it is worth it until you do it - at least you end the race knowing you gave it your all to come say 12th instead of trundling in with the bunch having got boxed in.
  • Rule74Please
    Rule74Please Posts: 307
    6 is the magic number to make a break work if you all commit.


    Really? No break of 5 people has ever worked? Or 4 people? Is this a scientific fact?

    I guess you must have found this bit of science the same place you found all that science of riding in the drops :roll:

    15 years of racing taught me this In amateur racing 6 guys working together will hold off almost any field as it is full of numbskulls who wont do a turn on the front.

    Been in many such field reductions and have tried often to chase them down only to be foiled by lazy b'stards sitting in
  • Pseudonym
    Pseudonym Posts: 1,032
    that still doesn't make '6' the optimum number. I've seen anything from 1-10 rider breaks stay clear. It all depends who is driving it. To claim the 'number' is more important than the legs of those in the break is a bit naive....
  • 6 is the magic number to make a break work if you all commit.


    Really? No break of 5 people has ever worked? Or 4 people? Is this a scientific fact?

    I guess you must have found this bit of science the same place you found all that science of riding in the drops :roll:

    15 years of racing taught me this In amateur racing 6 guys working together will hold off almost any field as it is full of numbskulls who wont do a turn on the front.

    Been in many such field reductions and have tried often to chase them down only to be foiled by lazy b'stards sitting in

    15 years of racing? Yeah right
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    I won a road race just over a week ago. 2 man break right from the gun. The pack just underestimated our abilities and let us ride off - then couldn't catch us at the end.

    We both worked hard together right until the end and I managed to take the sprint.

    If the break had been bigger, the pack would have chased harder and probably caught us.
  • Back OT and to the OP, if you think you are a sprinter, then save your gas until the last 200m or so, whether you are in a break or not. Ignore the comments and peer pressure about doing a turn, unless its in your advantage to get in a small breakaway, all you will do is use up valuable energy. Few sprinters can max it out when jumping from an already close to threshold level, you need to be as rested as possible before making that maximal effort. If you can time trial your way off the front and then sprint you really have a special gift. Bunch racing is a team sport, so get your clubmates to do all the hard work, otherwise poach someone elses wheel. Sprinting is about winning in whatever way you can, forget about any ethics about doing turns you'll just get smashed and roll in 7th every time.

    There will be plenty of riders who will disagree with this, but most will probably be those riders who don't have a big kick, and need a fast pace / breakaway to stand a chance of winning, and will always moan about wheel suckers.
  • oldwelshman
    oldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Back OT and to the OP, if you think you are a sprinter, then save your gas until the last 200m or so, whether you are in a break or not. Ignore the comments and peer pressure about doing a turn, unless its in your advantage to get in a small breakaway, all you will do is use up valuable energy. Few sprinters can max it out when jumping from an already close to threshold level, you need to be as rested as possible before making that maximal effort. If you can time trial your way off the front and then sprint you really have a special gift. Bunch racing is a team sport, so get your clubmates to do all the hard work, otherwise poach someone elses wheel. Sprinting is about winning in whatever way you can, forget about any ethics about doing turns you'll just get smashed and roll in 7th every time.

    There will be plenty of riders who will disagree with this, but most will probably be those riders who don't have a big kick, and need a fast pace / breakaway to stand a chance of winning, and will always moan about wheel suckers.
    Bunch racing a team sport? Really Steve ? :D CAn't say I have noticed it much in the races I have done,with the odd exception :D
    As for your advice about shelter, all good until OP gets enough points to move to 2nd cat then will not have to worry about sprinting after getting dropped :P
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    you obviously havent been in any recent crit races with pontypool riders then

    I've seen them turn up in herds at castle combe and merryfield.

    unfortunatly for them it always seems like theres a big gap in performance for half of them
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • oldwelshman
    oldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    acidstrato wrote:
    you obviously havent been in any recent crit races with pontypool riders then

    I've seen them turn up in herds at castle combe and merryfield.

    unfortunatly for them it always seems like theres a big gap in performance for half of them
    Theres a big differrence in riders from same club riding in a race to riding as a team :D
    I have been in a few races this year where "team mates" have chased each other down though not in wales :D
  • acidstrato wrote:
    you obviously havent been in any recent crit races with pontypool riders then

    I've seen them turn up in herds at castle combe and merryfield.

    unfortunatly for them it always seems like theres a big gap in performance for half of them

    No, I havent done any road racing this year, only track, but such is the way of amatuer club cycling, all credit to anyone having a go. As it happens you might have also noticed that a few of them have been placed too, with the occasional winner at Ilton. So am not sure what your point is!
  • rogerthecat
    rogerthecat Posts: 669
    Thanks guys all great stuff, so if I understand this; at my level, (newbi) wheel suck and give it all at the end, or if I am strong enough leave the group and head out either solo if much stronger or takes some other riders to share the front. If I am able to lead from the front of the pack and pull them around and sprint finish at the end I am in the wrong job... Is that about it?

    on that note then, patience is going to be the hardest thing to learn, other than interval training , sprinting lamp posts for example would be the way forward!

    Would my age be a factor in this? (thinking fast twitching muscles).
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    edited July 2011
    acidstrato wrote:
    you obviously havent been in any recent crit races with pontypool riders then

    I've seen them turn up in herds at castle combe and merryfield.

    unfortunatly for them it always seems like theres a big gap in performance for half of them

    No, I havent done any road racing this year, only track, but such is the way of amatuer club cycling, all credit to anyone having a go. As it happens you might have also noticed that a few of them have been placed too, with the occasional winner at Ilton. So am not sure what your point is!

    my point, leading on from what you said about team work, was ponty for example turn up and try to ride like a team, and fair play i've seen them at the front and some of them taking turns. not slagging anyone off. but at the end its every man for himself

    if anything I probably owe em a few drinks I got a 2nd and a 1st at ilton this year when ponty riders turned up.
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    Thanks guys all great stuff, so if I understand this; at my level, (newbi) wheel suck and give it all at the end, or if I am strong enough leave the group and head out either solo if much stronger or takes some other riders to share the front. If I am able to lead from the front of the pack and pull them around and sprint finish at the end I am in the wrong job... Is that about it?

    on that note then, patience is going to be the hardest thing to learn, other than interval training , sprinting lamp posts for example would be the way forward!

    Would my age be a factor in this? (thinking fast twitching muscles).

    if your a 4th cat and riding a crit, go alone last lap before the eventual sprint kicks.
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • acidstrato
    acidstrato Posts: 945
    acidstrato wrote:
    you obviously havent been in any recent crit races with pontypool riders then

    I've seen them turn up in herds at castle combe and merryfield.

    unfortunatly for them it always seems like theres a big gap in performance for half of them
    Theres a big differrence in riders from same club riding in a race to riding as a team :D
    I have been in a few races this year where "team mates" have chased each other down though not in wales :D

    my post was slight tongue in cheek.
    like i said previously, at the end its every man for himself.
    Crafted in Italy apparantly
  • oldwelshman
    oldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Actually they are one of the only clubs where I saw some of them riding as a team :D
  • milese
    milese Posts: 1,233
    I've seen Mid Devon and One and All (in Cornwall) control races well from the front, sharing the work of chasing attacks down, and very cleverly distrupting any chases when they have someone in a break.

    If you've got the engine you need to attack for a breakaway, if you've only an engine for a sprint then you need to hope others stop breaks from going, and just hang in for a good position in the run in.

    However there is no point in winning the bunch sprint if 10 have already broken away without you.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 40,217
    Actually they are one of the only clubs where I saw some of them riding as a team :D

    Aber RC got it sussed last season and it led to a 1-2-3 in the Noel Jones. This season they have struggled to get riders racing at all let alone working as a team. One club in Wales is excellent at racing themselves despite having some of the biggest numbers in the bunch :wink:

    OP, some riders are just better genetically at sprinting than others or it could be that they haven't worked as hard as you. I wouldn't say wheelsuck as at the end of the day if everyone did that there would be no race. However, either avoid doing more than your fair share or make the work count in dropping as many people as possible. Do some training to improve your sprinting.
  • acidstrato wrote:
    acidstrato wrote:
    you obviously havent been in any recent crit races with pontypool riders then

    I've seen them turn up in herds at castle combe and merryfield.

    unfortunatly for them it always seems like theres a big gap in performance for half of them
    Theres a big differrence in riders from same club riding in a race to riding as a team :D
    I have been in a few races this year where "team mates" have chased each other down though not in wales :D

    my post was slight tongue in cheek.
    like i said previously, at the end its every man for himself.

    It's OK so was mine! I think we are all agreed anyway - as a sprinter assume you are on your own. the difference is a team mate might not moan about wheel sucking, though this is amateur racing after all...