God Given Right

hfidgen

Why do some cyclists seem to think they've got a god given right to ALWAYS filter to the front of whatever queue might be there and NEVER slow down for any obstruction in the road.

Stupid filtering is one thing, it's quite easy to be tempted by "just one more car" and get caught by a green light, but I actually got shoved out of the way yesterday morning (whilst clipped in, thanks mate) by some asshole who was desperate to sit on the inside of a left turning van. Which duly left turned all over him leaving him standing next to the kerb while I rode past behind the van. Motorbikes do this a lot, but some cyclists seem to go into a sheet of rage if their precious filtering lane is blocked, despite the fact that they would be better just to wait - the queue of traffic would just overtake them anyway.

The occasions which amaze me most though are when a taxi pulls in (often nowdays with indication and an apologetic wave) only for the cyclist to berate the driver, swear at him, bang on the side; all for the grievious insult of getting in the way. It's the road. People stop their cars on occasion...

That's common, but the worst I saw was a peloton of lycra louts and fixies undertake a 40 ton articulated lorry who had pulled into the right lane intending to swing in for a left turn. 4 lanes of traffic had stopped, I had stopped, but seemingly how dare this mobile traffic jam get in the way of these cyclists. He juddered to a halt with a blast of the horn as they swept past. If he hadn't, they'd have done some sort of comedy pile-up into the cab wheel arches. I shrunk in my saddle from the force of the collective thoughts from all the waiting drivers and tried to look apologetic on behalf of the others.

Seriously - what's going on?

Is it just adrenaline blocking good common sense?
Is it a lack of common sense?
Surely some other cyclists also drive and so have some appreciation of what actually happens on the roads?

I regularly boggle (is that a verb) at some of what I see on my commutes.


EDIT - yeah sorry, probably belongs in the rant thread :roll:

Paul E

I go with the flow, I don't barge past people to gain and then lose seconds and maybe put myself in harms way, I leave the house with plenty of time to get to where I am going.

I like to de stress on the bike rather than make it an all out race. After all, that is a big part of riding, it's to escape.

Had plenty of people push past and then park in front of me, 99% of the time I go past them when it's safe to within 10 seconds, I just see them as being sad.

Gussio

*sits in lotus position and maintains Zen-like calm*

scattered pedals

Same usually - Cars waiting at the lights in the bike lane though.. that dirves me nuts

veronese68

A friend of mine described it as people absolving themselves of responsibility for their own safety. They just expect people not to mow them down, then get annoyed if this is pointed out to them by a hoot of a horn or even a raised eyebrow.
Maybe if this particular peloton mentioned by the OP had wound up in the wheelarches of the lorry it could be considered as helping the evolution of the species.

DonDaddyD

Gets right up my nose that does.

Generally I hate cyclists at traffic lights, they are usually always doing something irritates me. Barging to get to the front, demanding I move so they can get to the front, positioning themselves smack bang in front of me even though (i) you got there first and (ii) you got there first because you overtook them. Then there are those that are so close behind me when the let go of their front wheel it hits my back wheel - that's a new one for 2011.

But yeah I hate when cyclist must get to the front of a queue at all costs as though they're running from a zombie

desweller

The old adage applies: Consider how stupid the average person is. Half the population is even more stupid than that.

jejv

DesWeller wrote:

Consider how stupid the average person is. Half the population is even more stupid than that.

Surely: "the median person" ?

I'll get my coat.

Ian.B

jejv wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

Consider how stupid the average person is. Half the population is even more stupid than that.

Surely: "the median person" ?

I'll get my coat.

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

jedster

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

a) correct
b) chapeau for taking his pedantry and raising him - nice work!

BTW on the original topic - couldn't agree more. People's inability to think ahead is breathtaking at times. Their angry response when their idiocy comes home to roost is just pathetic...

nation

It's the same mentality that gives rise to "got to get past the cyclist" moves from drivers.

There just seems to just be a class of people incapable of making rational decisions about their rate of progress relative to others on the road.

iPete

Its a combination of stupidity and or in-experience.

Most fair weather and new riders tend to blindy try and force their way to the front even if it means sitting under a HGV. It takes some experience, road sense and zen to realise its safer to slow down and often quicker to sit back and move with the traffic.

I'm sick of seeing cyclists berate other road users when its their own stupidity that nearly got them run over.

Waiting behind a car last week as a bus was pulling into the stop, I slowed to stay behind the car as it was obviously going to go around the bus. An idiot on a bike didn't slow down, went around the outside as the car was beginning its over take and nearly got pushed into the path of a lorry. Said idiot then had a go at the driver.

desweller

Ian.B wrote:

jejv wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

Consider how stupid the average person is. Half the population is even more stupid than that.

Surely: "the median person" ?

I'll get my coat.

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

In my original statement, 'average person' does not explicitly state that there is any statistical significance about their stupidity; rather, the stupidity of an average person (in the qualititative sense, as a person is defined by a large number of unrelated factors that cannot be expressed with a single number) equates to the mean stupidity of the population.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

dhope

jedster wrote:

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

a) correct
b) chapeau for taking his pedantry and raising him - nice work!

BTW on the original topic - couldn't agree more. People's inability to think ahead is breathtaking at times. Their angry response when their idiocy comes home to roost is just pathetic...

ahem.
mode

Irvinet

Someone shoving you to get past is totally unacceptable behaviour and the other stuff you describe is plain bad manners, poor awareness or both. But, I have a special dark place in my heart for people (often scooter riders) who filter aggressively and then suddenly stop, blocking the way forward and leaving those behind them in awkward or dangerous positions.

The same goes for people who gather at the end of feeder lanes to advance stop boxes. It drives me nuts to see an empty advance stop box with six cyclists jammed next to a white van in the feeder all because the cyclist in front won't move forward and across.

Nobody wants to be stuck in a bunch of closely packed, multi-ton vehicles who might or might not have decided which way they are going to turn when that light goes green.

AndyManc

Yeah, I don't like a lot of things cyclists do ...


BUT

at least they are not in a 1/2 ton - 40 ton vehicle and trying to kill me.

Cyclist that do stupid things will suffer the consequences, motorists that behave in a similar manner will murder or maim.


.

Specialized Needs

dhope wrote:

jedster wrote:

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

a) correct
b) chapeau for taking his pedantry and raising him - nice work!

BTW on the original topic - couldn't agree more. People's inability to think ahead is breathtaking at times. Their angry response when their idiocy comes home to roost is just pathetic...

ahem.
mode

If it is a Gaussian distribution, then whether 'average' means mean/median/mode is a moot point anyhow.

dhope

Specialized Needs wrote:

dhope wrote:

jedster wrote:

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

a) correct
b) chapeau for taking his pedantry and raising him - nice work!

BTW on the original topic - couldn't agree more. People's inability to think ahead is breathtaking at times. Their angry response when their idiocy comes home to roost is just pathetic...

ahem.
mode

Iff it is a Gaussian distribution, then whether 'average' means mean/median/mode is a moot point anyhow.

hfidgen

I love this forum for all the little off topic battles

I agree that crazed and irresponsible cyclists cause less damage than crazed and irresponsible motorists, but I'm wondering where the crazed and irresponsible comes from in the first place.

I bet most of them are family men with good office jobs :roll:

jimmypippa

DesWeller wrote:

Ian.B wrote:

jejv wrote:

DesWeller wrote:

Consider how stupid the average person is. Half the population is even more stupid than that.

Surely: "the median person" ?

I'll get my coat.

Isn't "average" a general term which can mean either the median or arithmetic mean?

In my original statement, 'average person' does not explicitly state that there is any statistical significance about their stupidity; rather, the stupidity of an average person (in the qualititative sense, as a person is defined by a large number of unrelated factors that cannot be expressed with a single number) equates to the mean stupidity of the population.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

IQ (as a proxy for intelligence) is defined as fitting to a normal distribution ("bell curve").

This means that the mean, median and mode are all the same number.

Edit: Specialized Needs beat me to it

Initialised

Waiting at a light with another cyclist... can't remember the last time that happened. They tend to RLJ or POB past

esspeebee

dhope wrote:

Specialized Needs wrote:

Iff it is a Gaussian distribution, then whether 'average' means mean/median/mode is a moot point anyhow.

The second 'f' isn't accurate -- a binomial distribution with np ∈ Z also has that property (mean = median = mode).

Pedanticists, unite and argue about trivialities.

Gussio

*lost*

Bikequin

esspeebee wrote:

dhope wrote:

Specialized Needs wrote:

Iff it is a Gaussian distribution, then whether 'average' means mean/median/mode is a moot point anyhow.

The second 'f' isn't accurate -- a binomial distribution with np ∈ Z also has that property (mean = median = mode).

Pedanticists, unite and argue about trivialities.

So for the non mathematicians amongst us is the following sequence 1,2,8,10,10,10,29 Gaussian?

Skippy2309

I remember this happening vividly, its disgusting how some people ride.

my personal favourite was stopping cab along side light was on red as we approached. woman shouted "OI!" I looked back and she clipped me and the cab straight through the junction where she just missed a bus!

in the city I have seen it all too many times, people force themselves to the front of the group then pull away super slow, get over taken by everyone then squeeze to the front infront of everyone at the next set of lights if they actually stop.....

jonny_trousers

Hangin's too good for 'em!

hfidgen

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

Hangin's too good for 'em!

Who, mathematicians?

Tend to agree

jimmypippa

Bikequin wrote:

esspeebee wrote:

dhope wrote:

Specialized Needs wrote:

Iff it is a Gaussian distribution, then whether 'average' means mean/median/mode is a moot point anyhow.

The second 'f' isn't accurate -- a binomial distribution with np ∈ Z also has that property (mean = median = mode).

Pedanticists, unite and argue about trivialities.

So for the non mathematicians amongst us is the following sequence 1,2,8,10,10,10,29 Gaussian?

The normal distribution has that property. It is not the only distribution to have that property.

I'm not a mathematician but an engineer.

But in answer to your question. I'd be inclined to say it probably isn't but would want more data before deciding. If that is the entire population then it won't even approximate to a gaussian.

If the data came out in that order it would also look suspiciously nonrandom, as it never decreases.

joelsim

To be honest guys. I'm shocked at the number of cyclists who ride through red lights. And no it's not different if you go through slowly!

It's what gets cyclists a bad name, and I'm sure contributes to some accidents and much less respect from other road users.

We should start a motion for all Radars to do the right thing and chastise those who don't.

I mean, what is the point??? Observe the rules of the road and everyone is happier.

Rant over.

notsoblue

Joelsim wrote:

To be honest guys. I'm shocked at the number of cyclists who ride through red lights. And no it's not different if you go through slowly!

It's what gets cyclists a bad name, and I'm sure contributes to some accidents and much less respect from other road users.

We should start a motion for all Radars to do the right thing and chastise those who don't.

Please, please don't. :roll:

thelawnet

Joelsim wrote:

To be honest guys. I'm shocked at the number of cyclists who ride through red lights. And no it's not different if you go through slowly!

Traffic lights don't exist on cycle tracks.

They only exist to make motorists culpable for their misbehaviour.

Cyclists are culpable - if a cyclist goes through a red light and gets killed, he's dead.

If a motorist speeds and kills someone, he blames sciatica/blackout/spider in the car/the sunshine/anything but himself, and he invariably gets away with a tiny penalty, or none at all.

It's what gets cyclists a bad name, and I'm sure contributes to some accidents and much less respect from other road users.

We should start a motion for all Radars to do the right thing and chastise those who don't.

I mean, what is the point??? Observe the rules of the road and everyone is happier.

Rant over.

Just chill. Observe the rules yourself - set an example.