A plea to the industry......
Confusedboy
Posts: 287
I had a visit from she who must not be named today, and, despite thinking I was fairly well prepared for her, she has taken 2 hours of my life I will never get back and stressed me so much that I may be forced to go and have a beer later.
Went to get the shopper out of the bedroom (to go shopping; and there is too much risk of rain for either of my other bikes) to find that some scofflaw has pinched all the air out of the fromt tyre. So, v brakes slackened, and upside down in the living room goes the bike, Wheel off and tyre removed-so far so good. I have found over many bitter years' experience that attempting to repair a tyre when you want to go out is not a viable method, so I have a spare inner tube on hand stashed in a carrier bag stuffed under the seat. Out it comes, and it is for 700x35 Presta valve; the shopper, like most hybrids, has Schraeder.
B*gger.
How has this happened? I did not even own a Presta-equipped bike when I bought this spare. Did I not check at the time? Obviously not, whatever I thought. Luckily, my LBS is only round the corner so a new inner of the correct spec was immediately purchased, and fitted to the wheel. Now all I had to do was put the wheel back on the bike, tip it back up the right way, and re-tighten the v-brakes
This was where the fun started. I gave up after about half an hour of swearing, getting mucky and sweaty, and eventually b*ggering off for a cup of tea. Returning suitably refreshed, I accepted the inevitable and slackened the cable pinch bolt. Now the brakes could be re-assembled properly and all I had to do was re-tension the cable. Of course, the thing slipped in the pliers I was holding it with, the little end thing that stops it fraying flew off into orbit, and the cable started fraying. This meant that, in order to thead it back through the hole in the pinch bolt, I had to cut the cable up past where the fray had got to*, shortening it, and next time all this is done I will have to replace the cable as the fray will no doubt go further up than where it goes through the pinch bolt as there is nothing now to stop it unravelling. And one of the frayed ends stabbed me in the finger.
What has any of this got to do with the industry? MTFU, Confusedboy, we've all had days like this, it's all part of the fun. Well, it is in the industry's interest to provide it's customers with, not just a nice new shiny bike now and then with loads of accessories of varying usefulness but massive markup, but an overall enjoyable experience to keep 'em coming back for more, and it is the same industry which supplies us with these inadequately designed components. I have been cycling for many years, and accept this sort of thing as normal; certainly today's debacle would have been much worse in pre mtb days when many mid-market bikes had cheap caliper brakes. But a newbie may very well be seriously discouraged by this sort of thing or by the cost and inconvenience of having it done (a guy came in to have a p*ncture fixed while I was in the shop buying my replacement inner today!), and decide that his car is a better bet after all, which is what we are all trying to avoid.
And he/she will be understandably bewildered by the variety of innertube sizes and fits, and valve types, he/she must learn to negotiate just in order to provide him/herself with spares; after all, I got caught out today and after 40+ years on bikes I'm supposed to know what I'm doing. As for the wonderful world of repairing innertubes, I have long ago given up on this as I do not trust the reparied tube, which is near useless even as a spare because you cannot deflate it enough to fold it away properly. Can we not at least have a standard, i.e. Schraeder valve fitting? It doesn't even have to be a standard size at the innertube end; a Presta sized valve could still be used on road bike wheels, so long as it has a Schraeder fitting at the business end, so that any pump, CO2 cartridge, or bike shop airline could be used to inflate it, and much confusion, and stock, will be removed from the innertube section of bike shop shelves. Everyone would be happier, and the industry as a whole would benefit.
And why, why for the love of beer, why after all these years do we still have to put up with those silly little crimp-on things to stop your cable fraying? They DON'T BLOODY WORK, never have, unless you put them on yourself with sufficient force and superglue (the one that so spectacularly let me down today was as fitted new to the bike, and I made the rookie mistake of trusting it). Of all of a bicycle's components; size for size, these apparently most trivial items have the most capacity to cause serious damage or problems when they fail, as they nearly always do. Something better, that fixes properly and permanently to the cable end, perhaps with a screw fitting, needs to be provided, or, better still, cables that don't fray. I now have a frayed cable which needs to be replaced asap as a result of your penny-pinching, industry; get your act together and provide the sort of overall customer satisfaction that should be required for you to survive in the 21st century.
Rant over.
For now.
*I spent a tidy sum a few years back on a proper heavy-duty wire cutter, after having been assured for many years that you can cut a brake or gear cable cleanly with a pair of pliers. You can't. This is one of my 'precious' tools; you can borrow it, but you must borrow me with it as I will not allow it to be used even under supervision by anyone with hands not directly connected to my body.
Went to get the shopper out of the bedroom (to go shopping; and there is too much risk of rain for either of my other bikes) to find that some scofflaw has pinched all the air out of the fromt tyre. So, v brakes slackened, and upside down in the living room goes the bike, Wheel off and tyre removed-so far so good. I have found over many bitter years' experience that attempting to repair a tyre when you want to go out is not a viable method, so I have a spare inner tube on hand stashed in a carrier bag stuffed under the seat. Out it comes, and it is for 700x35 Presta valve; the shopper, like most hybrids, has Schraeder.
B*gger.
How has this happened? I did not even own a Presta-equipped bike when I bought this spare. Did I not check at the time? Obviously not, whatever I thought. Luckily, my LBS is only round the corner so a new inner of the correct spec was immediately purchased, and fitted to the wheel. Now all I had to do was put the wheel back on the bike, tip it back up the right way, and re-tighten the v-brakes
This was where the fun started. I gave up after about half an hour of swearing, getting mucky and sweaty, and eventually b*ggering off for a cup of tea. Returning suitably refreshed, I accepted the inevitable and slackened the cable pinch bolt. Now the brakes could be re-assembled properly and all I had to do was re-tension the cable. Of course, the thing slipped in the pliers I was holding it with, the little end thing that stops it fraying flew off into orbit, and the cable started fraying. This meant that, in order to thead it back through the hole in the pinch bolt, I had to cut the cable up past where the fray had got to*, shortening it, and next time all this is done I will have to replace the cable as the fray will no doubt go further up than where it goes through the pinch bolt as there is nothing now to stop it unravelling. And one of the frayed ends stabbed me in the finger.
What has any of this got to do with the industry? MTFU, Confusedboy, we've all had days like this, it's all part of the fun. Well, it is in the industry's interest to provide it's customers with, not just a nice new shiny bike now and then with loads of accessories of varying usefulness but massive markup, but an overall enjoyable experience to keep 'em coming back for more, and it is the same industry which supplies us with these inadequately designed components. I have been cycling for many years, and accept this sort of thing as normal; certainly today's debacle would have been much worse in pre mtb days when many mid-market bikes had cheap caliper brakes. But a newbie may very well be seriously discouraged by this sort of thing or by the cost and inconvenience of having it done (a guy came in to have a p*ncture fixed while I was in the shop buying my replacement inner today!), and decide that his car is a better bet after all, which is what we are all trying to avoid.
And he/she will be understandably bewildered by the variety of innertube sizes and fits, and valve types, he/she must learn to negotiate just in order to provide him/herself with spares; after all, I got caught out today and after 40+ years on bikes I'm supposed to know what I'm doing. As for the wonderful world of repairing innertubes, I have long ago given up on this as I do not trust the reparied tube, which is near useless even as a spare because you cannot deflate it enough to fold it away properly. Can we not at least have a standard, i.e. Schraeder valve fitting? It doesn't even have to be a standard size at the innertube end; a Presta sized valve could still be used on road bike wheels, so long as it has a Schraeder fitting at the business end, so that any pump, CO2 cartridge, or bike shop airline could be used to inflate it, and much confusion, and stock, will be removed from the innertube section of bike shop shelves. Everyone would be happier, and the industry as a whole would benefit.
And why, why for the love of beer, why after all these years do we still have to put up with those silly little crimp-on things to stop your cable fraying? They DON'T BLOODY WORK, never have, unless you put them on yourself with sufficient force and superglue (the one that so spectacularly let me down today was as fitted new to the bike, and I made the rookie mistake of trusting it). Of all of a bicycle's components; size for size, these apparently most trivial items have the most capacity to cause serious damage or problems when they fail, as they nearly always do. Something better, that fixes properly and permanently to the cable end, perhaps with a screw fitting, needs to be provided, or, better still, cables that don't fray. I now have a frayed cable which needs to be replaced asap as a result of your penny-pinching, industry; get your act together and provide the sort of overall customer satisfaction that should be required for you to survive in the 21st century.
Rant over.
For now.
*I spent a tidy sum a few years back on a proper heavy-duty wire cutter, after having been assured for many years that you can cut a brake or gear cable cleanly with a pair of pliers. You can't. This is one of my 'precious' tools; you can borrow it, but you must borrow me with it as I will not allow it to be used even under supervision by anyone with hands not directly connected to my body.
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Comments
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*scratches head in confusion*0
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2nd paragraph I lost interest.0
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First class work, sir.
(still using heatshrink for my cable ends here, which apparently annoys the mechanic at the LBS [this in itself pleases me])
[Edit]: Aww c'mon everyone, you've never had been incandescent with fury at a simple bicycle? Never silently sworn with enough force to tear your larynx because the stupid tyre levers have snapped again? You've never undone the powerlink on your chain, only to have the spring on the rear derailleur spring back, firing the powerlink up over the house, to land in the front hedge?[*]
*: Yes, this happened. I have witnesses to the launching, and the eventual recovery.Sometimes parts break. Sometimes you crash. Sometimes it’s your fault.0 -
Maybe you aren't a good mechanic?0
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Yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz"Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"0
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Wallace1492 wrote:Yaaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
OK, apologies, not quite fair.... I have had a few moments like that too. I feel your pain!! Same can be said of different brake fittings, and pads. 4 bikes 4 different types of brake pads, yes only 2 different tyres."Encyclopaedia is a fetish for very small bicycles"0 -
Nothing wrong with a rant.
But best to keep it brief.None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
alan sherman wrote:Maybe you aren't a good mechanic?
i'm not. Never said I was. Oughta be able to replace a feckin' innertube, though.
The moral of the story is that, no matter how many bicycles you have, if the only one you don't mind getting dirty lets you down on a day when it is going to rain, you have no bicycle. and it's someone else's fault.
(the alternative to it being someone else's fault is unthinkable)0 -
daviesee wrote:Nothing wrong with a rant.
But best to keep it brief.
'k.0 -
Confusedboy wrote:Can we not at least have a standard, i.e. Schraeder valve fitting? It doesn't even have to be a standard size at the innertube end; a Presta sized valve could still be used on road bike wheels, so long as it has a Schraeder fitting at the business end, so that any pump, CO2 cartridge, or bike shop airline could be used to inflate it, and much confusion, and stock, will be removed from the innertube section of bike shop shelves. Everyone would be happier, and the industry as a whole would benefit.
I don't see how this works, if it's a presta sized schraeder valve, many pumps aren't going to be able to grip onto it, and/or will have too large a centre section to disengage the air valve.And why, why for the love of beer, why after all these years do we still have to put up with those silly little crimp-on things to stop your cable fraying? They DON'T BLOODY WORK, never have, unless you put them on yourself with sufficient force and superglue (the one that so spectacularly let me down today was as fitted new to the bike, and I made the rookie mistake of trusting it). Of all of a bicycle's components; size for size, these apparently most trivial items have the most capacity to cause serious damage or problems when they fail, as they nearly always do. Something better, that fixes properly and permanently to the cable end, perhaps with a screw fitting, needs to be provided, or, better still, cables that don't fray. I now have a frayed cable which needs to be replaced asap as a result of your penny-pinching, industry; get your act together and provide the sort of overall customer satisfaction that should be required for you to survive in the 21st century.
One of my mates used to solder the ends of his cables, which seemed to work well.
You'd have thought that designing more fray resistant cables should be possible, though...0 -
I never object to a rant, but just to add it to:
Surely you can chuck a presta value tube in a rim that normally uses a schraeder as the hole will be big enough? Sure it ain't the same as the one that came out, but it lets you get on with life. Also a lot of pumps have a reversable connector so you can use either valve or use an adaptor.0 -
Frayed cable ends always stab you in the finger - fact0
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davmaggs wrote:I never object to a rant, but just to add it to:
Surely you can chuck a presta value tube in a rim that normally uses a schraeder as the hole will be big enough? Sure it ain't the same as the one that came out, but it lets you get on with life. Also a lot of pumps have a reversable connector so you can use either valve or use an adaptor.
If you put any decent pressure in the tube, the bit of tube around the valve will start to bulge through the larger hole and BANG!1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I've always just stuck a dab of superglue on the end of cables and not bothered with the crimp on thing.
Seems to work ok.0 -
FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees
I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
I had a visit from she who must not be named today, and, despite thinking I was fairly well prepared for her, she has taken 2 hours of my life I will never get back and stressed me so much that I may be forced to go and have a beer later.
Who's that? The wife? Your boss at work?
Oh, no, you mean the puncture fairy. Why dose everyone refuse to talk about punctures.
PUNCTURES
There I said it, great big air sucking tire deflating hairy assed punctures!!! In fact I don't even believe in the puncture fairy and if she dose exist she's a whore.0 -
RichardSwt wrote:I had a visit from she who must not be named today, and, despite thinking I was fairly well prepared for her, she has taken 2 hours of my life I will never get back and stressed me so much that I may be forced to go and have a beer later.
Who's that? The wife? Your boss at work?
Oh, no, you mean the puncture fairy. Why dose everyone refuse to talk about punctures.
PUNCTURES
There I said it, great big air sucking tire deflating hairy assed punctures!!! In fact I don't even believe in the puncture fairy and if she dose exist she's a whore.
Someone likes to walk in the rain whilst pushing their bike.FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees
I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
I reckon the OP has a point... The issue, however, is that you (we?) are a niche market. The industry isn't selling bikes for transport but for sports & leisure use. Practical solutions aren't much of a marketing gimmick.
Cheers,
W.0 -
What is the OP's point? I lost interest and can't be bothered to go back to read it all.
Something about innertubes? Or aliens? Or the state of Greece's economy? I don't know.
Can someone give me a synopsis?FCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees
I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
Synopsis: bought the wrong tube, had a rant about how it's not his fault.I used to just ride my bike to work but now I find myself going out looking for bigger and bigger hills.0
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I'll wait for the highlights show too please, did Boonen get in before the signature0
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Sure- legacy engineering and component incompatibilities can turn simple maintenance tasks into time-consuming hassle. This can make using a bike for transport unattractive, particularly for the non-hobbyist...EKE_38BPM wrote:What is the OP's point? I lost interest and can't be bothered to go back to read it all.
Something about innertubes? Or aliens? Or the state of Greece's economy? I don't know.
Can someone give me a synopsis?
Cheers,
W.0 -
WGWarburton wrote:
Sure- legacy engineering and component incompatibilities can turn simple maintenance tasks into time-consuming hassle. This can make using a bike for transport unattractive, particularly for the non-hobbyist...EKE_38BPM wrote:What is the OP's point? I lost interest and can't be bothered to go back to read it all.
Something about innertubes? Or aliens? Or the state of Greece's economy? I don't know.
Can someone give me a synopsis?
Cheers,
W.
But the main problem was that the OP ruined the brake cable. Nothing to do with legacy engineering. and many would say the presta tube would have worked fine.
OP should have just patched the tube with it still on the bike
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More an aside really, but what is this obsession with making cycling more attractive to lazy people? Surely they'll only end up getting in our way? If - like one of the examples in the OP's original epic - you think repairing a puncture is too much hassle and that you are better off in a car then I'm glad to see you leave our ranks and I promise to keep a careful eye out for you when you turn left without indicating because flicking that little switch is such a terrible waste of energy.0
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WGWarburton wrote:
Sure- legacy engineering and component incompatibilities can turn simple maintenance tasks into time-consuming hassle. This can make using a bike for transport unattractive, particularly for the non-hobbyist...EKE_38BPM wrote:What is the OP's point? I lost interest and can't be bothered to go back to read it all.
Something about innertubes? Or aliens? Or the state of Greece's economy? I don't know.
Can someone give me a synopsis?
Cheers,
W.
Cheers BunsFCN 3: Raleigh Record Ace fixie-to be resurrected sometime in the future
FCN 4: Planet X Schmaffenschmack 2- workhorse
FCN 9: B Twin Vitamin - winter commuter/loan bike for trainees
I'm hungry. I'm always hungry!0 -
Well, the contention was that the use of universal bowden cables and cable-clamps, resulting in the need to cut cables to length, means either fraying or inadequate workarounds (solder, glue, crimp-on ends). If the industry abandoned this installed base and moved to a more modern system (hydraulics? Standardised, terminated cables?) then things might ultimately be simpler.bails87 wrote:WGWarburton wrote:... legacy engineering and component incompatibilities can turn simple maintenance tasks into time-consuming hassle. ....
But the main problem was that the OP ruined the brake cable. Nothing to do with legacy engineering.
Similarly with brake blocks/fittings, valves, maybe tyre-sizing, too.
Personally, I don't think this would be progress- the industry is too diverse and the installed base too large. I can see the point, and the potential for standardisation in"utility" bikes but, as I said earlier, I think this is a niche market in the UK.. and that standardisation works better for the mass-market.
Cheers,
W.0
