Panniers: Ortlieb vs Altura

KnightOfTheLongTights

Looking at rear panniers, either Orlieb Classic (2x20) or Altura Arran (2x18).

Latter are just over half the price of the former: is it worth spending the cash on the Ortlieb?

Any other options?

Ta.

dilemna

Campag vs SRAM ?


First you have to compare like with like.

I believe the Ortlieb Roller Classics are top of the range robust and water proof panniers.

Atlura Arran panniers whilst good (but not waterproof) are not Alturas top of the range pannier which are the Orkneys which are very durable, robust and waterproof.

KnightOfTheLongTights

Ah OK, that I didn't know - I just assumed Altura were a cheaper brand than Ortlieb. Thanks.

alfablue

If you want them to last and last, Ortlieb every time. 5 year warranty, easily available spares, fabric repair kits (very hard to damage the fabric on the classics). They are simple, robust and foolproof, worth every penny.

dilemna

KnightOfTheLongTights wrote:

Ah OK, that I didn't know - I just assumed Altura were a cheaper brand than Ortlieb. Thanks.

You are right in your assumption. They generally are.

Most cyclists who embark on a tour or expedition seem to choose Ortieb panniers as they are 100% waterpoof and generally very robust and durable. Myself I chose Vaude Aqua panniers which are even better than Ortliebs.

I do have some old Altura Orkneys front panniers in black circa 1995 before the current style came in which have been brilliant and still going strong. The only problem with them is that they are not waterproof and need a stupid yellow rain cover when the rain starts chucking it down. This is a bit of a drawback if the weather turns nasty which will happen from time to time on tour or expedition. I believe the new Orkneys are waterproof, but have one large lid which if the pannier is full can uncover the side pocket which Altura have stupidly also designed it to cover meaning that items in the side pocket get soaked. If you don't realise as you ride along it can be a real bummer.

The Altura Arran panniers would be pretty good if they were waterproof but they are not. So wouldn't get my vote. I guess if they were then the Orkneys wouldn't sell.

Ortlieb and Vaude, both German, are the best panniers on the market.

andymiller

alfablue wrote:

If you want them to last and last, Ortlieb every time. 5 year warranty, easily available spares, fabric repair kits (very hard to damage the fabric on the classics). They are simple, robust and foolproof, worth every penny.

Foolproof? No. This self-confessed fool managed to lose one on a rough camino in Andalusia. Ortlieb treated me like a lunatic when I asked if I could buy a single pannier as a replacement. So strike one for Altura who do sell panniers singly.

And Vaude seem to be able to engineer inserts for use with steel racks that don't fall out, while Ortlieb can't (or won't).

German companies are great at engineering but IME less good at customer service - if you gave me the choice between dealing with a British company or dealing with a German company I'd chose the British company: IME they give better after-sales service.

nicktheluddite

I'd go with the Altura. I have some old Arrans - I know they aren't waterproof so pack stuff which needs to stay dry in plastic bags. While the Ortliebs are lovely, eventually some point of the waterproofing will fail - then you'll need to bag stuff up anyway.

culverwood

Carradice of course.

alfablue

andymiller wrote:

alfablue wrote:

If you want them to last and last, Ortlieb every time. 5 year warranty, easily available spares, fabric repair kits (very hard to damage the fabric on the classics). They are simple, robust and foolproof, worth every penny.

Foolproof? No. This self-confessed fool managed to lose one on a rough camino in Andalusia. Ortlieb treated me like a lunatic when I asked if I could buy a single pannier as a replacement. So strike one for Altura who do sell panniers singly.

And Vaude seem to be able to engineer inserts for use with steel racks that don't fall out, while Ortlieb can't (or won't).

German companies are great at engineering but IME less good at customer service - if you gave me the choice between dealing with a British company or dealing with a German company I'd chose the British company: IME they give better after-sales service.

Not had any problems so haven't experienced their customer service, but on the basis of preferring a British company then Carradice Carradry panniers must be contenders (they were my second preference). Not only are they a British company, they are actually made in Britain (and indeed, repaired in Britain, should you need this).

crossborderreiver

I think I may be abnormal, other people rave about Ortlieb panniers but I don't like them. I bought a set because I was told they were compatible with the rack provided on my new bike. I miss the presence of pockets. I know pockets can be bought and attached but I think this is an afterthought on Ortliebs part which also happens to be a very convenient money spinner for them. I also dislike the carrying handles. My old panniers have a short handle which makes carrying them easy. The Orlieb long shoulder straps are a pain. On my rear bikepackers the straps need to be tucked away in transit and then dug out when needed. I find carrying full panniers on my shoulders very awkward beause the weight is too low down and the fixings tend to dig in. There is a very flimsy short strap on top of the panniers in the same position as the carrying handle of my old panniers but the purpose of this strap is to open and close the top clips which hold the pannier on to the rack. The instructions warn the user that the panniers shouldn't be carried using this strap. The carrying handles on the rollers are equally annoying. They are too long to carry the panniers the way I want to and if I use the shoulder straps, the whole roll top thing has to be rerolled because the straps pull the corners of the pannier open.
Although the Ortliebs fitted onto the bike rack, the fitting wasn't very good. On the first outing, the the plastic anchor which should stop the bottom of the pannier swinging out flew off, a car ran over part of of it while the other part rolled close to a drain.
While the Orliebs are waterproof and my old panniers were not, I never had a problem with things getting wet in my old panniers. I used a white swing bin liner in the old ones. this kept everything bone dry and made finding things a lot easier than a dark coloured bag.
If I was looking to buy another set of panniers (but after buying Ortliebs cannot afford to) pockets and strong carrying handles would be a priority. I would also test out any new panniers fully laden before taking them on tour.

cycladelic

Here's some good insight into Ortlieb....

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/ ... 27860&v=1u

KnightOfTheLongTights

thanks all, will digest when not quite so busy at work ...

dilemna

cycladelic wrote:

Here's some good insight into Ortlieb....

http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/reviews/ ... 27860&v=1u

Good thread I have a link to it as well. Kinda blows the mythology surrounding Ortlieb panniers out the water.

I have found Vaude panniers superior to Ortlieb. I have had both. I also have a Vaude Ultralight tent which is brilliant, perfect for touring.

Also Vaude customer service is absolutely excellent. I had a problem with the zip on the side pocket of one of my rear Vaude Aqua panniers so returned it to the Uk distributor who sent them back to Germany for me. Three weeks later a brand new set turns up, the ones I sent back were about 1 year old, but Vaude had also removed the old style hooks and carrying straps from my old panniers as I requested and sent them back with the new pair which have the newer hooks I am not so keen on which I thought was pretty good as they actually read my letter and understood. The old hooks were placed in grip seal clear bags and neatly labelled. Typical German efficieny. They also refunded my return postage costs which were a not insubstantial amount. So Vaude the German company has EXCELLENT customer service. I am now trying to get Vaude to go back to producing rear Aqua panniers with water proof zipped side pockets rather than the current versions which have roll top side pockets which look to me to be a real PITA.

Vaude panniers come with a hard plastic back which makes them very robust. The inserts in their hooks (if they are needed) don't fall out and the carry handles have thick rubber/plastic tubes on to cushion your fingers when they are heavy and you are struggling to carry them. Plus they also have long shoulder straps like Ortliebs but I don't use these for the reasons given above by others.

Vaude panniers have a three year warranty which could easily be five as they are better than Ortlieb panniers.

I have looked at Carradice panniers several times but I think the build quality is not the same as the other manufacturers Altura, Vaude and Ortlieb particularly with respect to the hooks and rails which look quite primitive ie the hooks are mounted on a rough piece of aluminium extrusion along the top of the back edge. But I guess people have different expectations and needs.

KnightOfTheLongTights

so it seems there are two choices in Vaude Aqua panniers:

These:
http://www.outdoor-ranger.co.uk/vaude-a ... anguage=gb

And 'Aqua Pro':
http://www.mailorderbikes.com/m2b641s19 ... RS_GB/1355

Latter seem to have a couple more litres capacity maybe and style is slightly different - but otherwise does anyone know if there is any substantial difference?

Both seem to have 'inside pocket' in the spec, when I've heard that actually an outside pocket is much preferable. The 'pro' version seem to come out a tenner cheaper at most stores.

Also, I am coming at this as a complete pannier newb. I have a Specialised Allez road bike - it has the holes in the frame, which I believe are requisite number one.

Can you give me an idiot's guide as to what I need re. attachment system?

Thanks.

Pete Reader

I have some Altura Arc 40 Panniers which are waterproof and they have been fantastic whilst touring around Normandy in France... They have well placed reflective surfaces and are very robustly built. I did not get these from Wiggle as they are expensive on this site but here are the specs if interested:

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/altura-arc-40-p ... ype=2#more

Hope this helps!

nicktheluddite

loads of choice for Vaude panniers http://www.vaude.com/epages/Vaude-de.sf ... ageSize=30 - you've found just found two of them. Mrs Luddite has some Low front panniers which are she's pleased with - carrying handle and shoulder strap.
I have also found Vaude customer service to be very good when I had a bit of tent trouble. (Having said that I've never needed to bother Altura customer service - that probably says something too.)
Fixing pannier racks on an Allez? You need this http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12785664 scroll down to find photos of someone who has done this. I'll sure he'll be happy to share his experience.

KnightOfTheLongTights

thanks both :-)

KnightOfTheLongTights

nicktheluddite wrote:

loads of choice for Vaude panniers http://www.vaude.com/epages/Vaude-de.sf ... ageSize=30 - you've found just found two of them. Mrs Luddite has some Low front panniers which are she's pleased with - carrying handle and shoulder strap.
I have also found Vaude customer service to be very good when I had a bit of tent trouble. (Having said that I've never needed to bother Altura customer service - that probably says something too.)
Fixing pannier racks on an Allez? You need this http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12785664 scroll down to find photos of someone who has done this. I'll sure he'll be happy to share his experience.

now then, that's not how I was thinkign of fitting mine - I have eyelets in my Specialized frame, which means I can attach them in the orthodox manner, no?

Speaking of which: do i need to get anything else other than the panniers themselves? i.e., they come with the fitting system?

nicktheluddite

Panniers will come with bolts/clips/whatever their fixing system is.
obviously you'll need a rack - although they all seem to be pretty standard sizes I'd take the bike to the shop you get the rack from so you can be sure it fits.

Sorry - now going beyond what you asked (you've mentioned you've got an Allez - I'll chip in my opinion on panniers & racks on road bikes. Don't take too much stuff - although the frame has mounts for pannier rack, road bikes aren't designed for carrying loads of stuff - audax bikes and tourers are. Of course you can do it, and loads of people do and enjoy it very much. (Are you planning on camping or staying in B&Bs? If B&B then I reckon two panniers is too much - just a bar bag and a Carrdice saddlebag (or rackpack or drybag on top of pannier rack)).

KnightOfTheLongTights

nicktheluddite wrote:

Panniers will come with bolts/clips/whatever their fixing system is.
obviously you'll need a rack - although they all seem to be pretty standard sizes I'd take the bike to the shop you get the rack from so you can be sure it fits.

Sorry - now going beyond what you asked (you've mentioned you've got an Allez - I'll chip in my opinion on panniers & racks on road bikes. Don't take too much stuff - although the frame has mounts for pannier rack, road bikes aren't designed for carrying loads of stuff - audax bikes and tourers are. Of course you can do it, and loads of people do and enjoy it very much. (Are you planning on camping or staying in B&Bs? If B&B then I reckon two panniers is too much - just a bar bag and a Carrdice saddlebag (or rackpack or drybag on top of pannier rack)).

Nick thanks for that. I am going to B&B it.

I've ordered a pair of Altura Arc panniers - 40 litres total. Which is a lot I know, especially as I normally travel quiet light whatever I'm doing.

But i could either use just one or half-fill them?

nicktheluddite

for B&B I just take a drybag bungied on top of the pannier rack. I have one which I know I can just fit in all the right stuff (I think it's 20l) - then I am not tempted to take anything else. Then a bar bag on the front for camera/wallet/snacks/sandwiches/a spare top etc.
Having weight distributed front and back helps but isn't essential. You could just use 1 pannier - it'll be a bit unbalanced but I only notice this at slow speeds.