Mending punctures - Is it possible at 110 psi?

Pickled Pig
Pickled Pig Posts: 233
edited July 2011 in Road beginners
I've repaired many punctures successfully in the past but since getting a road bike running tyres at 110psi all of my 4 repairs have failed. Two patches leaked very slowly at the edge despite a wide coverage of solution and two patches split when I got the tyre up to around 80psi. All these repairs have been done at home, not at the roadside, and I have taken my time doing them properly.
Do I have to accept that I have to throw tubes after puncturing if I want to run high tyre pressure?
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Comments

  • nferrar
    nferrar Posts: 2,511
    I don't usually bother repairing but not had issues with the ones I have done, prefer to use proper glue + feather edge patches but even Park ones done at the roadside have held fine for me.
  • schweiz
    schweiz Posts: 1,644
    edited July 2011
    I repair my tubes and the only problems I've had are with cheap glueless patches.

    Traditional patches and vulcanising solution work well.

    Find the hole, mark it, use the emery cloth to roughen up the tube surface around the puncture, apply the vulcanising solution, let it dry, apply the patch, apply firm pressure for 30 seconds or so, leave for a few minutes, peel off clear foil on patch, dust with talcum powder or chalk, refit.
    VN BMC Cube SS
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  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    No problems using the TipTop patches and vulcanising solution - I apply a second layer of glue after the first has dried. Surface prep and applying lots of pressure to the patch and letting it cure properly is key
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Pickled Pig
    Pickled Pig Posts: 233
    My repair technique is pretty much the same - are you all running tyres at >100psi?
  • navrig
    navrig Posts: 1,352
    After a couple of fails I am now using the rubber sheets you cut to size. The trick seems to be making them small enough they fit within the widt of the tube when squashed flat but big enough to give enough coverage.

    Tend not to repair at road side but just swap tubes.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I use the Park patches and they work fine. Normally my PSI is about 100.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    I use the Park patches and they work fine. Normally my PSI is about 100.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    edited July 2011
    A repair done properly should be as strong as the original tube; that's what vulcanising does - it combines the two rubbers into one. If your patches are coming off you're not doing it right.

    To repeat the earlier advice:

    Locate the hole
    Rub the area to be patched + a bit extra with emery paper to key the tube
    Apply a dob of glue and smear it evenly & thinly over the keyed surface
    Leave it for a couple or three minutes to go nearly dry, ideally in warm sunshine (hah!). Don't touch it.
    Put a bit of air in the tube so that it's tube shaped not flat when you apply the patch.
    Peel the backing off the patch and carefully position it centrally over the hole making sure that the glue extends beyond the edge of the patch.
    Press it down firmly making sure it's stuck evenly all round and then edges have taken with the tube.
    Leave it for a few moments, rub a bit of chalk over the repair, inflate it to enough pressure to make it wheel-sized then refit.
    Inflate a bit more, check that there are no bulges and that the tyre is properly seated on the rim all the way round, then inflate to full pressure.
  • schweiz
    schweiz Posts: 1,644
    I usually run my tyres at +/- 110 psi but after I've patched a tube I usually run it up to 130 psi or so and use the tyre pressure to make sure it's stuck and then drop the pressure back down to normal.
    VN BMC Cube SS
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  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,348
    just to add to CiB's list...

    if the puncture is near the ridge on the centreline of the tube, pinch the tube flat with the ridge at the edge, then use the sandpaper to smooth/reduce the ridge, it'll reduce the chance of a poor seal in this area

    the rema tiptop plastic case has rounded corners to use for applying pressure to the patch, to be sure it makes a good seal - the rema instructions show this - leave the clear plastic carrier layer on the patch as it lets you push harder without the chance of catching on the edge of the patch

    i've got tubes with 4-5 rema patches, no problem at 110psi, i'm sure others have tubes with far more
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • CRAIGO5000
    CRAIGO5000 Posts: 697
    Just to add, I had the same issues as the OP until I used Rema Tip Top patches and glue.

    My methods haven't changed at all and they were the same as the instructions laid out above. I also repair mine in the workshop and not on a soggy roadside. (I carry a spare tube).

    I've used two brands that were shite before finding TipTops and I'm now never going to switch. The inferior branded patches came off when you tried to remove the clear plastic so there are some ropey kits out there imo.

    I also run my tyres at 120psi with zero issues on repaired tubes. It shouldn't make a difference imo, so long as you're not exceeding the tyre max. pressure rating.
    Ribble Stealth/SRAM Force
    2007 Specialized Allez (Double) FCN - 3
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Pickled Pig wrote:
    My repair technique is pretty much the same - are you all running tyres at >100psi?

    I repair tubes all the time and have them up to about 120psi without probs. One thing to remember is to apply the glue/solution and leav it to dry for about 20 secs before applying the patch. Apply pressure to the patch for another 10 secs or so after that... If you put the solution on and immediately apply the patch it doesn't stick very well....
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • sparkins1972
    sparkins1972 Posts: 252
    cougie wrote:
    I use the Park patches and they work fine. Normally my PSI is about 100.

    +1 never had a problem with these, but I only run at 100psi. I have no doubt they would hold with the extra 10psi. I tend to avoid repairing at the roadside unless my spare tube gets a puncture too which has only happened rarely.
  • on the road
    on the road Posts: 5,631
    They need constant pressure after sticking the patches on, either put the tube back inside the tyre and pump it up hard, or place the tube between two planks of wood and tighten them with a G-clamp. But don't try pumping the tube up to test it before hand otherwise it won't stick.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    on the road wrote:
    They need constant pressure after sticking the patches on, either put the tube back inside the tyre and pump it up hard, or place the tube between two planks of wood and tighten them with a G-clamp. But don't try pumping the tube up to test it before hand otherwise it won't stick.

    In all the years I've been repairing punctures I have never had to stick one between 2 planks of wood and tighten in a G clamp! If you let the glue dry for 20-30secs before applying the patch they barely need any pressure to stick very solidly... You just need to hold them under your thumb for about 10 secs and job done, back into tyre and up to 120 psi. Has never failed for me and I've used all sorts of brands of patch and glue...
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • on the road
    on the road Posts: 5,631
    Headhuunter wrote:
    on the road wrote:
    They need constant pressure after sticking the patches on, either put the tube back inside the tyre and pump it up hard, or place the tube between two planks of wood and tighten them with a G-clamp. But don't try pumping the tube up to test it before hand otherwise it won't stick.

    In all the years I've been repairing punctures I have never had to stick one between 2 planks of wood and tighten in a G clamp! If you let the glue dry for 20-30secs before applying the patch they barely need any pressure to stick very solidly... You just need to hold them under your thumb for about 10 secs and job done, back into tyre and up to 120 psi. Has never failed for me and I've used all sorts of brands of patch and glue...
    That's if you intend putting them back in the tyre straight away, but if you're not planning to put them back in the tyre but to use them as a spare then the two planks of wood method is the best option.

    By the way you should have read my post properly, notice I used the word "either" :roll:
  • Pickled Pig
    Pickled Pig Posts: 233
    Hmm, TBH there's nothing here I don't already do. It's not just patches leaking but 2 different makes of patch have split during inflation. Maybe I need to use better patches, I'll give the Tip Top and Park a go. Thanks all for the info.
  • stevec205gti
    stevec205gti Posts: 366
    Well, in my 25 years of fixing punctures I've never had to use wood and clamps!!! Let the vulcanising solution do its work for a bit before you apply the patch; hold the patch in place for a few seconds with firm pressure; leave for the bond to sort itself out.
    Has the head wind picked up or the tail wind dropped off???
  • topdude
    topdude Posts: 1,557
    It's not just patches leaking but 2 different makes of patch have split during inflation
    Are your tubes a lot smaller than the tyre ?
    maybe the tube is expanding too much to fill the tyre and stressing the patch ?
    Just a thought :D
    He is not the messiah, he is a very naughty boy !!
  • on the road
    on the road Posts: 5,631
    edited July 2011
    stevec205gti wrote:
    Well, in my 25 years of fixing punctures I've never had to use wood and clamps!!! Let the vulcanising solution do its work for a bit before you apply the patch; hold the patch in place for a few seconds with firm pressure; leave for the bond to sort itself out.
    Why don't people read posts properly, notice I used the word either and or :roll:

    If you put the patches on but leave it outside the tyre then they won't stick. Say you put the patches on and then leave the tube on the floor? The good thing about my method is the once I've repaired it I don't have to put it back in the tyre, I can just use it as a spare.
  • on the road
    on the road Posts: 5,631
    on the road wrote:
    They need constant pressure after sticking the patches on, either put the tube back inside the tyre and pump it up hard, or place the tube between two planks of wood and tighten them with a G-clamp. But don't try pumping the tube up to test it before hand otherwise it won't stick.
    So that there's no more misunderstanding :roll:
  • navrig
    navrig Posts: 1,352
    on the road wrote:
    stevec205gti wrote:
    Well, in my 25 years of fixing punctures I've never had to use wood and clamps!!! Let the vulcanising solution do its work for a bit before you apply the patch; hold the patch in place for a few seconds with firm pressure; leave for the bond to sort itself out.
    Why don't people read posts properly, notice I used the word either and or :roll:

    If you put the patches on but leave it outside the tyre then they won't stick. Say you put the patches on and then leave the tube on the floor? The good thing about my method is the once I've repaired it I don't have to put it back in the tyre, I can just use it as a spare.

    Don't agree. Over the last couple of weekends I have repaired about 10 punctures in a variety of spare tubes left lying around the garage in preparation for going on holiday. None have gobe back in the tubes and certainly none have gone between bits of wood. G-clamp, is that some sort of female sex thing?

    Make sure the rubber solution is tacky and not wet then hold it in place firmly between thumb and forefinger for a few minutes. Then I pump them up and leave them overnight just to make sure they are repaired.

    No problems, except when I used a feathered patch with the foil and cellophane attached. It would take so I went back to my sheet and cut a new patch.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Navrig wrote:
    on the road wrote:
    stevec205gti wrote:
    Well, in my 25 years of fixing punctures I've never had to use wood and clamps!!! Let the vulcanising solution do its work for a bit before you apply the patch; hold the patch in place for a few seconds with firm pressure; leave for the bond to sort itself out.
    Why don't people read posts properly, notice I used the word either and or :roll:

    If you put the patches on but leave it outside the tyre then they won't stick. Say you put the patches on and then leave the tube on the floor? The good thing about my method is the once I've repaired it I don't have to put it back in the tyre, I can just use it as a spare.

    Don't agree. Over the last couple of weekends I have repaired about 10 punctures in a variety of spare tubes left lying around the garage in preparation for going on holiday. None have gobe back in the tubes and certainly none have gone between bits of wood. G-clamp, is that some sort of female sex thing?

    Make sure the rubber solution is tacky and not wet then hold it in place firmly between thumb and forefinger for a few minutes. Then I pump them up and leave them overnight just to make sure they are repaired.

    No problems, except when I used a feathered patch with the foil and cellophane attached. It would take so I went back to my sheet and cut a new patch.

    Yep, not trying to be nasty, whatever works best for you but i tend to repair batches of 5-10 tubes at a time and have never used any kind of clamp and they all take 120psi. You should remember to scrape the surface ofthe tube where the hole is with sandpaper befre applying solution...
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Valy
    Valy Posts: 1,321
    Strange - I use Ream Tip Top as mentioned above and never really have a problem. Leave ream ones for about 5 minutes, then stick it on and and press together tightly. Have not had any problems.
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  • stevec205gti
    stevec205gti Posts: 366
    on the road wrote:
    stevec205gti wrote:
    Well, in my 25 years of fixing punctures I've never had to use wood and clamps!!! Let the vulcanising solution do its work for a bit before you apply the patch; hold the patch in place for a few seconds with firm pressure; leave for the bond to sort itself out.
    Why don't people read posts properly, notice I used the word either and or :roll:

    If you put the patches on but leave it outside the tyre then they won't stick. Say you put the patches on and then leave the tube on the floor? The good thing about my method is the once I've repaired it I don't have to put it back in the tyre, I can just use it as a spare.

    And why do you assume that because everyone disagrees with you it's just because you think they've misread your post??? :roll:

    If done properly you can quite happily allow the setiing of the solution outside the tyre and use at a later date. I too don't have to put the tube back in the tyre, but I've never found a need to use bits of wood. I'm pretty certain that thousands of others do not feel the need to use bits of wood either.
    Has the head wind picked up or the tail wind dropped off???
  • getprg
    getprg Posts: 245
    Headhuunter said
    If you put the solution on and immediately apply the patch it doesn't stick very well....
    +1 This is the most common mistake - usually made because we believe repair kits must be designed for roadside as well as home use.

    I was told by my LBS engineer that you should begin mending any punctures at the start of any bike service. Strip out tube, locate, mark and clean/rough up around puncture (check/feel inside of tyre for cause of puncture and remove if still embedded) then apply compound over wider area than patch will cover - NOW LEAVE FOR 20 to 30 MINUTES before applying patch! Work on other bits of the bike that need attention or have a coffee.

    I have followed this advice ever since and never had a problem - cheap or expensive patches big or small - the patch seems to attach like magic. The engineer also explained that this is why you should always carry a spare tube(s) when riding - there just isn't time to do a guaranteed repair with a kit out on the road - do it at home.

    Try it. Works for me.

    I didn't believe him - I do now. No need to clamp - squeeze between finger and thumb if you must but it won't make much difference. Maybe someone with a degree in chemistry can explain why it works - seems to be bomb proof IME.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    Are you still arguing this point? :)

    A patch won't stick if you put it straight onto wet glue - the glue needs to have gone tacky at least. 20-30 minutes is fine if you have that time to spare but 2 or 3 minutes will be enough if you're in a rush; that's time that can be well-spent finding the cause of the flat in the tyre if nothing else.

    As for clamping or putting the tube back in or the patch won't hold, that is with respect nonsense on stilts. Unless the hole is too big to allow the tube to retain any air (in which case you probably ought to bin it anyway), a lightly inflated tube will be the right shape to take the patch and won't expand as much when fully inflated inside the tyre hence the patch to tube contact area is close to being as right as it can be. The vulcanising of the rubber glue + tube + patch will make the patch at least as strong as the original tube so I've no idea where this suggestion comes from that you need to clamp it or put in back in the tyre to finalise the repair.

    I laid out the steps on my post on P1 of this thread. Do that and you'll never have problem with a patch. The bit I forgot to mention - patching over the ridged edge of a tube - was covered in a later post.
  • Niffleman
    Niffleman Posts: 87
    I would agree with the poster who commented that it is a good idea to put a second layer of glue on top of the first one. I have found this increases the chances of success. The other thing I have found is that once the seal is broken at the top of the tube of glue it has a finite life. After about a week or so it doesn't seem to work so well. To that end I wait until I have about five or six inner tubes, break the seal on a tube of glue and do them all together, discarding the tube afterwards.

    Hope this helps.
  • TuckerUK
    TuckerUK Posts: 369
    The other thing I have found is that once the seal is broken at the top of the tube of glue it has a finite life. After about a week or so it doesn't seem to work so well.

    Hmmm. Interesting. Anyone else noticed this?
    "Coming through..."
  • desweller
    desweller Posts: 5,175
    TuckerUK wrote:
    The other thing I have found is that once the seal is broken at the top of the tube of glue it has a finite life. After about a week or so it doesn't seem to work so well.

    Hmmm. Interesting. Anyone else noticed this?

    Last year I finished a tube that I first started using in 1990-something. So, no!
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