Which roads in France?

zexel

Hi all

A south coast to north coast in France is on the cards.

Am planning the route. The roads seem a bit confusing with A,E,D and N roads.

Could someone tell me what roads cycle's are NOT allowed on, obviously motorways with the blue signs are a no no. (A roads?)

What about dual carriageways? Road with green signs ok even if they are dual carriageway?

Cheers

ddraver

D and N are mostly OK, Some of these are Dual Carrigeways but to be honest where there is aroad that bikes are not allowed on, there is always a smaller, usually nicer, road next to it...I can't remember what E is, It's sometimes European Highway but there are some smaller ones as well are nt they which I think are Ok too

For the most part you ll be fine on almost everything, French drivers really are as respectful of cyclists as their reputation

Enjoy!

mz__jo

E are european designated through routes which may be N (nationale) or D (départementale). They should be avoided unless a local cyclist really recommends it as they usually carry a lot of HGV traffic.
N are Nationale (equivalent of A roads in UK). Since the road renumbering there are very few likely to be of interest for cycling since being of national interest means usually carrying a lot of traffic (although this is not always true; many on this forum will recommend certain N roads).
D are Départementale which means maintained by the département, including a certain number of ancient Nationales which were transferred to the départements because the state didn't want to pay for them. These may be single or dual carriageway (the tendence on N roads is to make them dual carriageway wherever possible) and may include sections forbidden to bicycles and agricultural vehicles (which won't be marked on the maps). There are some very good cycling roads which are ancient N roads running parallel to motorways.
A roads are motorways.
C roads are communale, may be tarmac or dirt (or even fenced of and ploughed under.

Cheers Jo

mz__jo

Do not trust french drivers too much; they still manage to kill cyclists fairly regularly, even in spite of high visibility equipment. If they are admired by british cyclists that says a lot about british drivers (all the more reason to be cautious, there are a lot of brits over here)

zexel

mz__jo wrote:

E are european designated through routes which may be N (nationale) or D (départementale). They should be avoided unless a local cyclist really recommends it as they usually carry a lot of HGV traffic.
N are Nationale (equivalent of A roads in UK). Since the road renumbering there are very few likely to be of interest for cycling since being of national interest means usually carrying a lot of traffic (although this is not always true; many on this forum will recommend certain N roads).
D are Départementale which means maintained by the département, including a certain number of ancient Nationales which were transferred to the départements because the state didn't want to pay for them. These may be single or dual carriageway (the tendence on N roads is to make them dual carriageway wherever possible) and may include sections forbidden to bicycles and agricultural vehicles (which won't be marked on the maps). There are some very good cycling roads which are ancient N roads running parallel to motorways.
A roads are motorways.
C roads are communale, may be tarmac or dirt (or even fenced of and ploughed under.

Cheers Jo

Thanks all.

Jo. Will these roads be signed up forbidden to cycles? Will I stray onto one inadvertantly?

I've been looking on Google Streetview at a few of these roads, and you're right there are a lot of D roads turning into dual carriageway, which isn't necessarily a problem for me as long as I'm allowed on it and not gonna have HGV's blowing me off the road with there air horns because I shouldn't be on it.

My route starts at Montpelier going on to:
Narbonne
Castelnaudary
Toulouse
Cahors
Brive la Gaillarde
Limoges
Issoudun
Orleans
Rambouillet
Beauvais
Dieppe.

Actually, just looking at a way out of Narbonne and noticed this road, that doesn't look too tasty for a bike, but actually not much choice from Narbonne to Castelnaudary. Reckon it's okay for bikes?

andymiller

Zexel a good rule if thumb is to avoid anyhing marked in red or red and white on a Michelin map (if it's red and white there's a good chance you won't be allowed on it). No you won't wander onto a section inadvertently but IME I wouldn't rely on the alternatives being obvious or well-signed.

I would only ride on the road shown in the picture if there was no alternative eg it was the only crossing over a river.

EDIT: on the subject of michelin the viamichelin site has a route-planner with the option to search for bike-friendly routes. It could be worth using if you are stuck for options or if you want to check the viability of parts of your route.

mz__jo wrote:

Do not trust french drivers too much; they still manage to kill cyclists fairly regularly, even in spite of high visibility equipment. If they are admired by british cyclists that says a lot about british drivers (all the more reason to be cautious, there are a lot of brits over here)

I think it says a lot about the prejudices of British cyclists (or at least some). I'm always amazed by these statements about French drivers being angels who get all misty-eyed at the sight of a cyclist while British car drivers are all horrible and mean. I suspect it's to do with the holiday effect: people who are used to riding on busy roads in the rush hour find themselves on quiet roads and of course everything is wonderful; but if they were to ride the busy roads at rush hour in a French city they'd find driver behaviour pretty similar and the experience just as stressful.

mz__jo

Zexel roads that are formally forbidden to cyclists carry a sign to that effect, usually at the last junction where you can leave the road (from memory its a red circular sign with a tractor and a bicycle and a black bar, but it is pretty obvious what it means. I think I have to brush up my highway code!). There are single carriageway roads that are départementale but still forbidden but these will usually be ring-roads so necessarily short and not too difficult to avoid. There is little way of knowing where they are before you get to them. Dual-carriageways should be readily identifiable from the line thicknesses on the map. Avoid them (frequently they are forbidden for cycles but even when they are not banned you do not want to share your holiday with lorries and caravans going at 80mph and any passing flics will probably tell you so).
I do not know all of France, I have to look at maps but looking at your route, Montpelier to Narbonne you will have to do your best and be careful there is a lot of heavy traffic in that region. Narbonne to Castelnaudry look at using the Canal du Midi towpath, Its a classic cycle-touring route. After that to Toulouse I can't say off the top of my head where you leave the Canal du Midi or if you can use the Canal Laterale du Garonne but there should be no shortage of suitable D roads. From Toulouse you can start using the old N20, around Toulouse it is a racetrack and dangerous (not helped by the toulousan road manners) From Cahors going North virtually up to Orleans it is usable, if a bit doubtful after Vierzon (means going Chateauroux, not Issoudun)

mz__jo

On the subject of the N20 note that it is no longer called the N20 in a lot of places because it has been downgraded to D status and replaced by the A20. In a lot of places the A20 takes chunks of the old Nationale's carriageway so there are little meanders that don't appear to make sense. If you need help PM me but next week I will be out of service as I am in hospital having my leg chopped. From Brive going north I can thoroughly recommend the old N20, wide reasonable surface, reasonable gradients and it gives you a taste of the old France that has all but disappeared with the motorways. North of Orleans it is not usable (dual carriageway or single carriageway but filled with foreign lorries avoiding the motorway tolls).
Cheers Jo

mz__jo

I would just add that recently I have noticed a trend in building new dual-carriageways from scratch rather than upgrading existing single-carriageway. It may be just around Limoges or it may be more general. Where this occurs, when the new road is put in service the old road becomes a good traffic free alternative for cyclists.

mz__jo

On french drivers I have this in way of warning, it happened very recently and local to us but there are many similar cases elsewhere if one stops to look.

"THIMONNIER Christian licencié au cyclo club de la tour 24 Dordogne participait au dernier Paris- Limoges et menait le groupe en compagnie de Daniel ROPERT sur la portion qui repartait de la Souterraine.

Il préparait avec son fils Cyril le prochain PARIS-BREST-PARIS de l'ACP.

Cyril, Samedi et dimanche dernier participait à un brevet qualificatif de 600 km.

Alors, qu'il se trouvait seul sur une route départementale.(muni du gilet de sécurité et d'éclairages normalisés), il était fauché aux environ de 2 heures du matin par une voiture, qui "le traînait" sur une distance évaluée à 200 m.

La voiture et le conducteur continuaient, sans s'arrêter laissant mort, le pauvre Cyril. Pour l'instant, pas d'identification mais des indices.

Cyril avait 39 ans et père de deux enfants,

Vous pouvez transférer à volonté ce message, ceux qui ont partagé le co-voiturage avec le papa depuis limoges se reconnaîtront, ainsi que ceux qui ont partagé la route sur le vélo."

I would add that Cyril was also an Elite category road racer from the Limousin region.

Be warned, road manners are improving but they are not all angels out there.

whoof

if you are ridnig from Castelnaudary and have touring tyres you and were not in a hurry you could go on the Canal du Midi. This would take you into the centre of Toulouse. Bit bumpy and would be busy in July/August. But this week it was reasonablly quiet.

infopete

Hi

Narbonne to Toulouse should be along the Canal du Midi. After Castelnaudary it's tarmac all the way to Bordeaux

Somewhere along your planned route turn right and head north towards Orleans and join Velo Route 6 then turn left towards Nantes.

After that Dieppe is easy.

Hardly a car in sight and mainly on cycle routes

zexel

Many thanks all, especially Jo.

Will be on a road bike (23mm tyres/no luggage) which is what is making this routing a bit tricky. Found a great single lane track (tarmac) through vineyards near Narbonne and suddenly it turns into a rubble track, eek. Which means I'll have to stick to proper roads.

Means it's going to take a bit of time checking these roads out on streetview. Oh thanks Jo for the viamichelin site, will base my routes on that and possibly do a slight bit of tweaking.

I have the intention of planning each of these routes out and uploading them all to my Garmin 800 to follow as a course so I don't have to worry about routes/maps when I'm there.

StefanP

This site is another great one:
http://www.geoportail.fr/visu2D.do?ter=metropole

It has some 40 map layers that you can add on

mz__jo

When my club did the Canal du Midi several years ago most of them were on road bikes with 23mm tyres and it did not pose any problems (over the whole length). Unfortunately the photos are no longer on the club site.

dilemna

Just take a Michelin road map and ride. It really is that easy in France. You could ride south to north without going through any cities or large towns sticking to rural roads which is what I would do.

nicktheluddite

+1 on take a Michelin map and ride - I'd recommend a spiral bound one then just take the pages you need with you and leave rest in the UK. Stick on small roads on that and they should be lovely and quiet. No problems with battery charging.

Gadge

I think you have had some good advice re routes from Montpeler eg Canal Du Midi. You may want to think about carrying on from there to Bordeaux then aim to finish at St Malo. Get the ferry from there to Portsmouth. Also take a look at the Voie Vertes web site for some other route options.

http://www.voiesvertes.com/

I don't think your bike choice will be a big issue on the above.

If you use a Michellin map the D roads are colour coded re likely traffic density.
You can buy a spiral bound A3 Michellin atlas from Amazon. Just photocopy what pages you need and leave it at home.

mz__jo

Try this site http://www.af3v.org/
It has the voies vertes, which are converted railway lines, canal towpaths and the like, but also the véloroutes which are long distance cycle routes on cycle friendly roads. I do not think they are reliably signposted, that would be too much to expect in France (other than the voies vertes, which are generally indicated well). I am sorry to say that the english version wouldn't work this evening, it might be a work in progress.

On maps nothing beats the current Michelin départementale series although you can do a lot with the regional series. Most road atlases don't seem to get enough detail on a page for me unless the scale is too small to be useful.

Cheers Jo