Weight of frames - Steel v Titanium v Carbon

Irishdean

I'm considering getting a new frame / bike. I currently have a Genesis Equilibrium which has a Reynolds 520 Steel frame, so I was wondering how much lighter would a 953 Steel frame be? And how would the 953 compare to a titanium or carbon frame? I've only been cycling for a year and a bit and only had the steel frame, so although I can't compare to how a titanium or carbon frame feels, I do love the way the equilibrium rides. That's why my instinct is to stick with steel, but the 953 frame is a lot more expensive than the 520, so was wondering what the weight advantage is?

neeb

Depends on the frame, there is a trade-off between weight and stiffness/durability with any frame material.

All other things being equal though (which they rarely are), most steel frames will be a bit heavier than most titanium ones, which will be a bit heavier than carbon. A 953 frame might be nearer the weight of an average Ti frame. However, components & wheels will be likely to make a bigger overall difference to the total weight of the bike.

If you have only ever ridden your steel frame you have nothing to compare it with and so no rational reason for your instinct to stick with steel. I'd try to test ride as many different bikes as possible!

Wacky Racer

I went into a local dealer a couple of days ago and looked at quite a few bikes, just browsing while I was making other purchases. I was shocked at the difference in weights between bikes, even carbon compared to carbon saw some quite significant differences depending on style, kit, budget, etc. I found one or two alloy bikes that were lighter than carbons, but obviously spec makes the difference, and the price. A low end carbon with heavier kit can easily be heavier than an alloy top end bike. My experience of road bikes is very little as I am new to this, but from many years of MTB'ing I can tell you that steel tends to come out the heaviest, followed by ti, then carbon, but as the previous poster pointed out, you need to ride a few and get a feel before you would make a decision based purely on weight.

RowCycle

I agree that components etc... will likely make a bigger difference to the overall weight of the bike than the frame.

eh

Reynolds 520 is ancient technology, so will be heavier than pretty much anything comparable.

Frame weight wise roughly starting heaviest would be (noting the cavats mentioned above):

Steel e.g. 520
Top end steel e.g 853 / cheap aluminium
Titanium / pricer aluminium / cheap carbon
Expensive carbon

With a nice carbon frame you should easily be below 1kg and still retain a good level of stiffness.

Chris James

Irishdean wrote:

I'm considering getting a new frame / bike. I currently have a Genesis Equilibrium which has a Reynolds 520 Steel frame, so I was wondering how much lighter would a 953 Steel frame be? ...., but the 953 frame is a lot more expensive than the 520, so was wondering what the weight advantage is?

All steels are pretty much the same density, so will weigh the same if the tube thicknesses are the same.

953 is a higher strength steel, so can be used with thinner tubing, although different butting profiles are available in most of the steels.

You can see the butting profiles available in this linked document

http://reynoldstechnology.biz/assets/pd ... s_list.pdf

Basically 953 tubes are 0.4mm at their thinnest and 520 about 0.6mmm at the thinnest. So a 953 frame will weight about two thirds that of a 520 frame.


Personally, if you are happy with the ride of the Genesis I would stick with it,. You can save the same weight much more cheaply by upgrading components and the Genesis is supposed to be a nice frame.

navrig

Have a dump before you go out and lose some of the flab around the middle.

BelgianBeerGeek

953 steel is almost comparable to titanium for strength and weight because it has a similar tensile strength. It also has similar longevity, hence its relative price. All materials can be built into different frames ie you could build a super lightweight steel frame or one with greater strength/thicker tubing therefore increasing the weight. Same principle applies to carbon or alumunium. Look at the evolutions in newer Giant/Trek/Cannondale frames - they claim to improve on performance every year but the weight still goes down as they move the strengthening to different areas like the bottom bracket for greater strength.

Irishdean

Thanks for all the informative answers, all but one very helpful, I'll let u decide for yourselves which one wasn't

I'm not obsessed with weight, and actually getting a custom frame made just for me is more important. But don't want to add weight for sake of it, and stainless element of 953 appeals.

eh

stainless element of 953 appeals

Why, it'll need to be painted anyway, save yourself the cash, and if you want to stay Reynolds get 853 instead or better still get the top end tubset from Columbus which is even better.

I'm sorry BelgianBeerGeek but you are talking toss, titanium isn't even close to steel. Ti frames have a horrible knack of cracking despite what the manufacturers and mags say, Ti frames mostly don't last for 'life'. Plus is makes for a horribly flexy frame.

neeb

eh wrote:

stainless element of 953 appeals

Why, it'll need to be painted anyway,

Not if it's stainless it won't - of course you can paint it if you want. The corrosion resistance is a big advantage I think, especially if you don't paint it and so don't need to worry about chips etc. Or even if you do paint it but ignore the chips on the grounds that they are not going to be starting points for rust and you can always just strip the paint at a later date when it starts to look scruffy...

eh wrote:

I'm sorry BelgianBeerGeek but you are talking toss, titanium isn't even close to steel. Ti frames have a horrible knack of cracking despite what the manufacturers and mags say, Ti frames mostly don't last for 'life'. Plus is makes for a horribly flexy frame.

Wow, two myths in one - the "ti cracks" thing is largely based on one or two well-publicised examples - the only time a ti frame is going to crack is near a weld if the welding hasn't been done properly. A well made ti frame really should last for ever if it is not crashed or abused (whereas steel does fatigue, however slowly). The flexy thing is also a myth - modern ti frames can pretty much be as stiff as you want, the ti-being-flexy myth derives from some older ultra-light frames made with very narrow, thin-walled tubing.

daviesee

Irishdean wrote:

Thanks for all the informative answers, all but one very helpful, I'll let u decide for yourselves which one wasn't

I'm not obsessed with weight, and actually getting a custom frame made just for me is more important. But don't want to add weight for sake of it, and stainless element of 953 appeals.

Well since your original question was ALL about weight Navrig wasn't too far off the mark.
My steel frame weighed a couple of pounds more than carbon but at the time of buying I was 2 stone overweight. Guess the easiest and cheapest way to save a few grammes?

Buy the bike you want. Nobody else's opinion matters. Fact.

Irishdean

yes, I admit it, my original question was about weight and maybe the context wasn't clear. But Navrig's answer sounded like the kind of thing people would say if they were on their eighth beer and the social filter was disabled!

By the way, I am 6 ft tall and about 11 st 12 lb, so not exactly carrying loads of blubber around. I just want to get a bike that suits me, hence the custom frame angle, and ideally I want it to last as long as possible without needing to be upgraded, so was interested in knowing more about the weight options. Thanks again for the info, it has helped.

daviesee

Negating all sarcasm and subjective advice - it sounds as if you know what you want.

A custom build bike.

In which case you are unlikely to get carbon. Realistic budget assumed.
There are a multitude of steel custom builders out there. Enigma do custom builds and are well respected for Ti.

Chances are that a proper bike fit and off the shelf will fit you though so you are back at the start. I was serious in the last sentence of my previous post. Get what you want. At the level you are looking at there are very few "bad" bikes and our opinions don't matter.

Chris James

Irishdean wrote:

I just want to get a bike that suits me, hence the custom frame angle, and ideally I want it to last as long as possible without needing to be upgraded, so was interested in knowing more about the weight options. Thanks again for the info, it has helped.

Just to be clear, what is wrong with the Equilibrium? I know you said that you loved the way it rides, so it doens't sound like it can be too far off?

If you are fairly normally proportioned and if you currently have the right sized frame, then a custom frame won't be that different to an off the peg frame.

I like steel frames too and have had a custom built 531c one in the past but my favourite is a Taiwanese TIG welded off the peg jobbie!