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Anyone from Aberdeen? Support for Trump's golf course?

15peter2015peter20 Posts: 293
edited July 2011 in The bottom bracket
Just interested in your thoughts on the eve of the movie from the protestors:

http://www.youvebeentrumped.com/youvebe ... AILER.html

Posts

  • PigtailPigtail Posts: 424
    Are you from Aberdeen 15peter?

    One very annoying feature of the whole thing has been how outsiders confuse Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire. They are two separate local authorities and the golf course is in Aberdeenshire. Commentators who get angry about it often refer to Aberdeen when they mean Aberdeenshire. It really rankles that people take strong views about it whilst not appearing to know where it is, and blaming the wrong people for the decision-making.

    In my view most people have very limited interest.

    Threatening compulsory purchase was pretty stupid and caused some annoyance, but the golf course at least initially had a fair degree of support.
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    All I know is that any high flyers coming in for a golf trip had better make sure that their flights avoid rush hour, or hire a helicopter.
    One of the most congested routes in Scotland.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • bearfraserbearfraser Posts: 435
    WTF:- NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil:
  • SpenderSpender Posts: 87
    I live just north of where it will be. Personally I am for it. Despite having the oil the area in Aberdeenshire has been largely ignored for infrastructure for far too long and having a world class golf course nearby should give the area a boost.

    I think that most of the protesters who said he was disrupting a area of natural beauty had never even seen or heard of the Menie estate before he decided to announce that he was building the golf course there. Now they are outraged :?

    There are lots of compulsory purchases going on all over Scotland. I wonder how these people would feel if they were told that instead of a golf course, hotel and 500 nice houses, the council were going to build a site for gypsies and travellers. One day very soon some local community round here is going to get that news. I wonder what that will do for the resale value of their properties?

    It’s naive for anyone to think that their houses and the area they live in will stay the same for the rest of their lives. When I first moved into my house I had views over the countryside. Now I have a view of an estate of 500 houses. Big deal, I knew the risks of buying a property on the periphery of a town.

    It all a bit of nimbyism.

    As part of his build I’ve asked Donald if he will build us a new cycle track for the youth training as well. On the basis “if you don’t ask, you don’t get”.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Spender wrote:
    I think that most of the protesters who said he was disrupting a area of natural beauty had never even seen or heard of the Menie estate before he decided to announce that he was building the golf course there. Now they are outraged :?
    Spender wrote:
    It all a bit of nimbyism.

    I think you are a bit confused :wink:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Spender45Spender45 Posts: 78
    Not really, I think that there are a lot of people who live near the area had never noticed the estate as they drive past, and had never walked over it. Only when DT decided to build his golf course they decided that it would spoil their back yard.

    However I agree that there are others who live away from the area who are only protesting because they like to be outraged about something.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    Does highlight that if you don't like people protesting about something, they are either NIMBYs or outsiders who 'have never been there'. In other words, the complaint is that protesters are both locals and non locals. Which suggests that arguing about NIMBYism is entirely irrelevant.

    As it happens, has it occurred to you that a lot of the protesters simply don't want yet another relatively natural area turned into an ugly golf course and that that might have no bearing on where they live? It's very patronising to assume that they are just protesting for the sake of it.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    Rolf F wrote:
    As it happens, has it occurred to you that a lot of the protesters simply don't want yet another relatively natural area turned into an ugly golf course and that that might have no bearing on where they live? It's very patronising to assume that they are just protesting for the sake of it.

    I guess it is subjective but I am yet to see an ugly golf course. Other objections may apply but that is not the strongest.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • RapheRaphe Posts: 48
    In Aberdeen it feels very much like you can do what you want if you have the cash. Union Terrace Gardens is another example. I’ve pretty much lost my ability for reasoned debate on these issues. Personally I would not pish on Trump and Sir Ian Wood if they were on fire.

    Aberdeen city is one of the most depressing places I know. To quote Christopher Brookmyer…

    “…It was a provincial fishing port that had struck it astronomically lucky with the discovery of North Sea oil, and the result was comparable to a country bumpkin who had won the lottery, minus the dopey grin and colossal sense of incredulous gratitude. The prevalent local delusion wasn't that the town had merely been in the right place at the right time, but that it had somehow done something to deserve this massive good fortune, and not before time, either.”

    “Europe's Oil Capital...He didn't imagine the locals had first asked anyone else in the European oil industry whether they concurred before conferring this status upon their home town, but working in marketing he at least understood the necessity of such misleading promotion in face of the less glamorous truth. 'Scotland's Fourth City' wasn't exactly a winning slogan, especially considering that there was a dizzyingly steep drop-off after the first two, and it still put them behind the ungodly shite-hole that was Dundee.

    The also self-conferred nickname 'Silver City' was another over-reaching feat of censored -polishing euphemism. It was grey. Everything was grey. There was just no getting away from it. The buildings were all - all - made of granite and the sky was covered in a thick layer of permacloud. It. Was. Grey. If Aberdeen was silver, then shite wasn't brown, it was coppertone. It was grey, as in dull, as in dreary, as in chromatically challenged. It was grey, grey, grey. And the only thing greyer than the city itself was the censored natives.”

    Sorry for the long post, I fecking hate this place right now, but the money is too good to leave. I realise that makes me a bit of a c*nt but there you go. Thank censored for the amazing countryside that surrounds it.
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    Succinctly put ^^^^^^^^^

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 42073.html

    I am only glad that I am on the west side and can head out into the country to escape the grey dullness.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • RapheRaphe Posts: 48
    I am only glad that I am on the west side and can head out into the country to escape the grey dullness.

    +1 on that.

    One positive thing is that I see a lot more cyclists in and around the city. Hope.
  • rolf_frolf_f Posts: 16,015
    daviesee wrote:
    I guess it is subjective but I am yet to see an ugly golf course. Other objections may apply but that is not the strongest.

    Probably is subjective - I have yet to see a golf course that wasn't a ghastly blot on the landscape.
    Faster than a tent.......
  • nwallacenwallace Posts: 1,465
    Spender wrote:
    I live just north of where it will be. Personally I am for it. Despite having the oil the area in Aberdeenshire has been largely ignored for infrastructure for far too long and having a world class golf course nearby should give the area a boost.

    Seen the infrastructure round St Andrews at all?
    Aberdeen's is actually better, ok fair enough at rush hour no where else in Scotland is as bad as Anderson drive, and the sooner the APR gets built the better. But the route options for St Andrews with 8 golf courses is all tractor infested diddly little roads that are at or near capacity for normal commute time, although that's with most people escaping to Edinburgh to work.
    Do Nellyphants count?

    Commuter: FCN 9
    Cheapo Roadie: FCN 5
    Off Road: FCN 11

    +1 when I don't get round to shaving for x days
  • I live in Aberdeen but the golf course will not exactly be in my back yard. Does that mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion on whether its right or wrong for the golf course to be built? Given that Trump has bullied his way through the planning process and given the way in which the scottish government has cosied up to him to give him pretty much what he wants, suggest to me that everybody in Scotland (at least) is entitled to an opinion on this. Whether they know exactly where the site is or not.

    It is a great bit of the coastline, a protected habitat no less and one of the few like it in Europe (let alone the UK) but that does not matter because we don't have many golf courses in scotland - let alone world class ones!!! The whole thing stinks!
  • MountainMonsterMountainMonster Posts: 7,423
    Life changes, empty land gets bought and turned into things. People need to stop complaining about everything they can, and just learn to accept facts of life.
  • Spender45Spender45 Posts: 78
    I quite like the fact that people are allowed an opinion. My opinion is that the bit of land that he is using wasn't that lovely. In my opinion, it's a fairly flat bit of grassland with some fields. The area was ignored by most of the people who live nearby and further away until Donald turned up. If it hadn’t been Donald and the circus he brought I doubt there would have been half as much interest and outrage.

    As mentioned above there are more pressing issues to get concerned about in and around Aberdeen. The Union Terrace issue is a real scandal. How can they possibly decide to go ahead with Ian Wood’s plan to change it when they had a consultation in which most people (who voted) said they didn’t want that to happen?
    I see they have proposed a new vote that people who actually live in Aberdeen will be allowed to take part in!

    And building a new football stadium where no one can get to just seems like madness.

    I quite like Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire. I don’t think the people are any worse than anywhere else in the country and most of the countryside around here is quite nice (including the golf courses)

    Aberdeen was very lucky with the oil just when the fishing industry went into decline. What is scary is what will be left here when the oil companies do decide to move on.

    At least no one has proposed a tram system yet!
  • estampidaestampida Posts: 1,008
    There is a problem that

    Aberdeen needs some renovation, and the council is corrupt, rather than sorting out the infrastcuture, the bad roads (traffic to and from dyce, B of Don, City cerner / market street. A 92 & 96). They are busy selling all of the towns assests. As I moved from aberdeen a few years ago from the outside you see how bad it is, they have a massive black hole in the budget, the council is not sure how it happened, most of the councilors have been in that job for 20yrs or so, it was their watch.......

    There still has been no inquiry into the housing sale of 10 yrs ago, where the council closed lots of council owned OAP homes, then sold these big buildings to themselves or relatives for a song (divana gardens was sold for £750,000. Changed in to 20 flats at £500,000 ea, good work if you brother gives it to you) thats where they should have had revenue coming from

    Or the service such as swimming pools (closed), green space (to be removed), gritting (you wish) ect, they instead keep the coffers rolling in by selling off bad ideas.

    With all the social, and economic issues of aberdeen, they need a new shopping center or golf course like a hole in the head. The city center is a ramshakle, that requires moderisation.

    I think union terrace need's work done (the elm trees are needing to be removed) but it is the only green space in the city. so why cover it in concrete, If anything the St Nick center shold be torn down and rebuilt with sir ian wood above it. (if he wants to pay for it, remeber the council is paying for half the estimated £100m)

    The same for balmiedie, they could have developed a local course, good long term local income for an organisation such as a council, that would have maintained the natural flood defences there.
    The real reason it's built there is because cruden bay course is 1 of the best in europe (shhhh no one really knows) and trump will stick a gold plate hotel within 15 mls of it and steal some trade.
    Any big matches that happen there will be a car crash,, becuse I have seen the scot open traffic at other venues, and know that B of D will not cope, what happens if there is a gig on at the exibition center, or the oil expo on at the same time
    Chaos, and who you gonna blame, cos you let them get away with it ??
  • davieseedaviesee Posts: 6,386
    Spender45 wrote:
    The area was ignored by most of the people who live nearby and further away until Donald turned up. If it hadn’t been Donald and the circus he brought I doubt there would have been half as much interest and outrage.

    Now there is a key point. A major reason people don't like the proposal is with him being a Yank railroading things through. Not so much about the golf course itself.

    Would there have been as much fuss had it been, say, Paul Lawrie?
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
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