Career advice

HAllez!!
HAllez!! Posts: 13
edited June 2011 in Road beginners
Hi my name is Harry, i'm 14 and i've been doing cycling for just over 4 months now and i've found out that i'm actually quite good at cycling. I fancy persuing a career in cycling and would just like a bit of advice to get me started.

Thanks

HAllez!!

Comments

  • Keith1983
    Keith1983 Posts: 575
    When you say a career in cycling I presume you mean racing? I am far form an expert on this but I would suggest you try out a few different disciplines and see which you like the best. You can then concentrate on this specific area of racing and train for it.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    Join a club - see if you can get in there race squad. - or see if you can find a local track league - and take it from there
  • flegghighsmells
    flegghighsmells Posts: 34
    1) Get this book

    2) Race, race race!

    If you go racing down in London, you'll meet loads of Juniors there who travel all over the country to race- get to know some of them and you'll soon find yourself integrated into the "community".

    P.S - You'll soon find you spend more time on the British Cycling website than you do on facebook.
  • Berk Bonebonce
    Berk Bonebonce Posts: 1,245
    Be a good amateur racer in the UK. Then go and join a good amateur club on the Continent, like in France or Italy, living in cheap accomodation and doing a job to make some money. The UK is not the place to be if you want to ride a bike for a living.

    PS Remember me and my advice when you are rich and famous, and send me your yellow jersey you get in the Tour de France.
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    Berk Bonebonce wrote:
    Be a good amateur racer in the UK. Then go and join a good amateur club on the Continent, like in France or Italy, living in cheap accomodation and doing a job to make some money. The UK is not the place to be if you want to ride a bike for a living.

    So your recommendation to the guys at top English Pro teams like Endura, Rapha and Motorpoint is that they should relinquish their well paid contracts and riding full time in Britain and Europe in order to move to France/Italy to become unpaid part time amateurs and find part time jobs, therefore limiting their time to train.
    Cannot see the logic of that? How are part time amateurs "making a living" from cycling when full time pro's are not?

    The British scene has improved significantly over the last few years and there are plenty of opportunities to develop to a reasonable pro level without moving overseas.
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    lyn1 wrote:
    Berk Bonebonce wrote:
    Be a good amateur racer in the UK. Then go and join a good amateur club on the Continent, like in France or Italy, living in cheap accomodation and doing a job to make some money. The UK is not the place to be if you want to ride a bike for a living.

    So your recommendation to the guys at top English Pro teams like Endura, Rapha and Motorpoint is that they should relinquish their well paid contracts and riding full time in Britain and Europe in order to move to France/Italy to become unpaid part time amateurs and find part time jobs, therefore limiting their time to train.
    Cannot see the logic of that? How are part time amateurs "making a living" from cycling when full time pro's are not?

    The British scene has improved significantly over the last few years and there are plenty of opportunities to develop to a reasonable pro level without moving overseas.

    Rapha/Motorpoint/Endura are for guys who can't quite make it as proper pros. Off the top of my head I can only think of one rider who graduated from the UK road racing scene to a proper pro team - Russell Downing, and he was in his 30s when he made the breakthrough - which is of course a bit late for him ot develop and win any big races, even if he were capable.
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    P_Tucker wrote:

    Rapha/Motorpoint/Endura are for guys who can't quite make it as proper pros. Off the top of my head I can only think of one rider who graduated from the UK road racing scene to a proper pro team - Russell Downing, and he was in his 30s when he made the breakthrough - which is of course a bit late for him ot develop and win any big races, even if he were capable.

    If you define " making a living" from cycling or a "career in cycling" as World Tour level only, or winning the Classics, Major Tours etc., which I wouldn't, then its true.

    But are there more who have moved to World Tour level in recent years based on being part time amateurs on the Continent?

    There are lots of riders in recent years who have moved from junior into Continental amateur teams, sometimes with Rayner funding, who do not move forward and a number even pack up the sport once they have to fund it themselves. Some return to a level below equivalent riders who remained in this country.
    It may be the sexy life style option to move to the Continent but not necessarily better than moving through the British scene, as many of the top teams race on the Continent anyway. The guys moving to World Tour in recent years have mainly come from the Academy, given their links to teams at that level and their exposure in top races. Part time amateurs would not get in those races.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Don't kid yourselves that riding for one of the UK teams is a career - whilst they might train full time the money is distinctly part-time and probably barely covers travel, expenses, bike and kit. Some prize money is a bonus - nobody races bikes in the UK to get rich!

    As said, join a club with a good youth programme and start racing. Good results will get you noticed at a regional level and perhaps the opportunity to train on the BC programmes. The 'focus' for cycling in the UK is Manchester, not London as that's where the BC Academy is.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • red ed
    red ed Posts: 14
    Berk Bonebonce wrote:
    The UK is not the place to be if you want to ride a bike for a living.

    Completely correct. But you can stay living with your parents until you're 30 while racing for a jersey and a bike if that appeals to you.
    Berk Bonebonce wrote:
    Be a good amateur racer in the UK. Then go and join a good amateur club on the Continent, like in France or Italy, living in cheap accomodation and doing a job to make some money.

    Honestly no. You can't be a good amateur racer - you have to be an absolutely awesome amateur racer. As in winning youth races fairly easily, getting dispensation to ride up in senior crits and being very competitive in those straight away, and winning them in the next couple of years. Ideally also getting regular track races at Manchester or Newport and getting seen by the ODP people. When you get good enough to be a pro then you'll get plenty of advice from good people; you won't need to ask on the internet.

    Of course there's nothing to stop anyone working their way around Europe and "living the dream" doing French or Belgian amateur races, it's a brilliant way to spend a gap year or whatever.

    To the OP - you're really just starting out. Cycling is an awesome sport in its own right, it's not a means to an end. Take it seriously but enjoy it as well.
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Don't kid yourselves that riding for one of the UK teams is a career - whilst they might train full time the money is distinctly part-time and probably barely covers travel, expenses, bike and kit. Some prize money is a bonus - nobody races bikes in the UK to get rich!


    That's certainly true, and your analysis rightly covers some of the teams that call themselves professional, although there of plenty of guys in the teams mentioned above on salaries of 10k plus, in addition to the other benefits you describe, which is far better than what a part time amateur would get on the Continent. Academy, UK "pro" team or Continental amateur are all options for young riders depending on ability and other personal issues such as desire to travel, experience different cultures, stay in education etc. As there are no guarantees of success whichever route is selected, discounting the UK "pro" opportunities and potential income in favour of Continental amateur teams and no income, is not the right approach for everyone....which was my original point.
  • Slack
    Slack Posts: 326
    Join a club, have some fun challenging the older guys. Do some junior races for fun. Most important of all, do not get involved in any specific training programmes for at least another 3 years.

    And don't do other bad things like smoke or drink alcohol. Women are ok providing they don't nag and allow you to go out riding for hours upon hours.
    Plymouthsteve for councillor!!
  • red ed
    red ed Posts: 14
    Slack wrote:
    Join a club, have some fun challenging the older guys. Do some junior races for fun. Most important of all, do not get involved in any specific training programmes for at least another 3 years.

    Sorry, no, nice idea but no. The OP is 14, if he is genuinely good and genuinely thinking that there is a career in cycling ahead of him, then he already wants to be putting together results at youth level in a Go-Ride club/team. The Talent Team operates from 13 to 16 and the riders on that programme are getting professional coaching, and going on training camps etc. The selection process for the ODP at 16 is already crazy competitive and many very good riders do not make it at that stage. For sure that's not the only route to a professional cycling career for someone based in the UK but it's by far the most straight-forward and 'low risk' (if any route into pro sport could ever be called 'low risk'!)

    Like I say above, if you go over to Europe later on you can still have a great time racing and paying your own way, but the likelihood of ever making a living is virtually zero.

    Again, cycling is a great sport. You're missing the point if you think that the whole idea is to make a living from it. But if you do want to make a living from it, then it's f'ing hard but there is a proven route there through British Cycling.
  • Slack
    Slack Posts: 326
    red ed wrote:
    Slack wrote:
    Join a club, have some fun challenging the older guys. Do some junior races for fun. Most important of all, do not get involved in any specific training programmes for at least another 3 years.

    Sorry, no, nice idea but no. The OP is 14, if he is genuinely good and genuinely thinking that there is a career in cycling ahead of him, then he already wants to be putting together results at youth level in a Go-Ride club/team. The Talent Team operates from 13 to 16 and the riders on that programme are getting professional coaching, and going on training camps etc. The selection process for the ODP at 16 is already crazy competitive and many very good riders do not make it at that stage. For sure that's not the only route to a professional cycling career for someone based in the UK but it's by far the most straight-forward and 'low risk' (if any route into pro sport could ever be called 'low risk'!)

    Like I say above, if you go over to Europe later on you can still have a great time racing and paying your own way, but the likelihood of ever making a living is virtually zero.

    Again, cycling is a great sport. You're missing the point if you think that the whole idea is to make a living from it. But if you do want to make a living from it, then it's f'ing hard but there is a proven route there through British Cycling.

    Precisely, it's an idea. Without knowing this chap personally, all we can do is provide ideas! It's up to him to decide what information he chooses to take on board or ignore.
    Plymouthsteve for councillor!!
  • MattC59
    MattC59 Posts: 5,408
    Hi,

    Everyone has assumed that you want to race as a career ? Is this the case ?
    If not, there are lots of avenues into the cycle industry.

    Try writing to some of the manufacturers, distributers, magazines (send a message to the guys at the Bike Radar office). They might be able to help, or popint you in the right direction. A good start might be a weekend job in your local bike shop. Get your face known at your local bike shop, ask around, be persistant. Be one of the kids who is always in the shop at the weekend checking out the new gear. If they know your face, and know that you're into cycling, they're more likely to give you a job.

    You never know, this could lead to racing for the shop, getting noticed and then going on to race for a living.

    M
    Science adjusts it’s beliefs based on what’s observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved
  • Tom Butcher
    Tom Butcher Posts: 3,830
    red ed wrote:
    Completely correct. But you can stay living with your parents until you're 30 while racing for a jersey and a bike if that appeals to you.
    Berk Bonebonce wrote:
    Be a good amateur racer in the UK. Then go and join a good amateur club on the Continent, like in France or Italy, living in cheap accomodation and doing a job to make some money.

    Honestly no. You can't be a good amateur racer - you have to be an absolutely awesome amateur racer. As in winning youth races fairly easily, getting dispensation to ride up in senior crits and being very competitive in those straight away, and winning them in the next couple of years. Ideally also getting regular track races at Manchester or Newport and getting seen by the ODP people. When you get good enough to be a pro then you'll get plenty of advice from good people; you won't need to ask on the internet.

    Of course there's nothing to stop anyone working their way around Europe and "living the dream" doing French or Belgian amateur races, it's a brilliant way to spend a gap year or whatever.

    To the OP - you're really just starting out. Cycling is an awesome sport in its own right, it's not a means to an end. Take it seriously but enjoy it as well.


    Couldn't have put it better. You need to train hard and race and if you have the talent then decisions about the best way forward will come later and there will be no shortage of people giving you advice.

    On a more general point most of the riders who come through now do come through the BC programme - but that's inevitably because BC picks up the best talent. In the past there are plenty of examples to show it can be done by going abroad and racing - and even now there are riders like Adam Blythe (I know he was with the BC academy for a short while) who have made it to a decent pro level outside of the BC pathway.
    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • rdt
    rdt Posts: 869
    edited June 2011
    HAllez!! wrote:
    Hi my name is Harry, i'm 14 and i've been doing cycling for just over 4 months now and i've found out that i'm actually quite good at cycling. I fancy persuing a career in cycling and would just like a bit of advice to get me started.

    Thanks

    HAllez!!

    As others have said, you need to be an exceptionally good cyclist (one of a handful of the best in the country) to have a career in cycling that would enable a decent level of earnings, particularly when you consider the short length of a sports career.

    So you might want to see if you've a chance at being in that handful, before setting your goal too firmly on a career riding your bike. If you find you meet that exceptionally high grade, then go for it.

    If you don't fall into that tiny minority, then you can still pursue cycling, competitive or otherwise, as a great pursuit, but at the same time make sure you get yourself educated and trained in other fields at the same time, so that you can get yourself a decent job/career, which is capable of giving you a lifestyle that you're happy with.

    And don't be disappointed: pursuing a hobby as your career sounds ideal, and may well be for some, but when you have to do something every day of every week of every year, it can take away some of the enjoyment, whereas you can enjoy a great hobby/pursuit for life.

    Plus, if it turns out you don't excel at cycling sufficiently to be a pro, there'll be other areas of life you can excel in, but you've yet to find.
  • ollyridesfirst
    ollyridesfirst Posts: 486
    Bradley Wiggins started with "British" Linda McCartney Racing Team... :D

    Get yourself into a club and see if you can get into a British team part-time and see if they think you have what it takes (bare in mind that Cavendish never impresses when training or on the power bike). If you stand out on the British scene it wont be long before continental teams which much more financial backing come knocking....

    Don't forget the majority of teams have a base in Britain.....and i'm pretty sure Mr Brailsford from Team Sky can spot talent in young riders!
  • red ed
    red ed Posts: 14
    OllyRidesFirst wrote:
    Bradley Wiggins started with "British" Linda McCartney Racing Team... :D

    That's half true. He did already have an Olympic bronze medal before he signed for Linda Maccy's and had been part of the BC scene for a long time. LMcC also rode the Giro d'Italia so certainly weren't a typical British domestic pro outfit.
    OllyRidesFirst wrote:
    If you stand out on the British scene it wont be long before continental teams which much more financial backing come knocking....
    Don't forget the majority of teams have a base in Britain.....and i'm pretty sure Mr Brailsford from Team Sky can spot talent in young riders!

    Are there any continental teams other than Sky that have any kind of base or presence in the UK? There really isn't any history of riders progressing to a continental pro career via standing out as domestic pro's.
    Tom Butcher wrote:
    In the past there are plenty of examples to show it can be done by going abroad and racing - and even now there are riders like Adam Blythe (I know he was with the BC academy for a short while) who have made it to a decent pro level outside of the BC pathway.

    For sure, the Academy isn't the only way. But Blythe was outstanding from a very young age and probably could have stayed in the BC system if he hadn't gone to Belgium. One of the great things about the BC system is that it does allow people to test themselves and get a realistic picture of where they are at a fairly early stage, and a clear channel to progress in. If people can't prosper under that system, against their peers in their own country in a comfortable setting, then I really don't like their chances of doing it the hard way out on the continent. It's a bloody hard life trying to make it as a pro on the continent and takes a massive amount of luck and good contacts.
  • ollyridesfirst
    ollyridesfirst Posts: 486
    red ed wrote:
    OllyRidesFirst wrote:
    If you stand out on the British scene it wont be long before continental teams which much more financial backing come knocking....
    Don't forget the majority of teams have a base in Britain.....and i'm pretty sure Mr Brailsford from Team Sky can spot talent in young riders!

    Are there any continental teams other than Sky that have any kind of base or presence in the UK? There really isn't any history of riders progressing to a continental pro career via standing out as domestic pro's.

    I'll be totally honest....this isn't confirmed by me, but i seem to remember watching the cycling (think it was the Swiss tour just gone) and the 2 fellas saying that most of the major european teams have a base in Britain....
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    lyn1 wrote:
    Monty Dog wrote:
    Don't kid yourselves that riding for one of the UK teams is a career - whilst they might train full time the money is distinctly part-time and probably barely covers travel, expenses, bike and kit. Some prize money is a bonus - nobody races bikes in the UK to get rich!


    That's certainly true, and your analysis rightly covers some of the teams that call themselves professional, although there of plenty of guys in the teams mentioned above on salaries of 10k plus, in addition to the other benefits you describe, which is far better than what a part time amateur would get on the Continent. Academy, UK "pro" team or Continental amateur are all options for young riders depending on ability and other personal issues such as desire to travel, experience different cultures, stay in education etc. As there are no guarantees of success whichever route is selected, discounting the UK "pro" opportunities and potential income in favour of Continental amateur teams and no income, is not the right approach for everyone....which was my original point.

    But a continental amateur has the chance of being picked up by a proper team - like I said before, no-one recruits from the British cycling scene. I'm assuming the OP nurtures a small hope of being the next Gilbert and retiring with millions in the bank - if his aim is to have a minimum wage job which in 20 years time will leave him with no useful skills and no money in the bank, then the UK scene is a great option.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 72,817
    Career advice at 14?


    Do whatever you fancy.

    Seriously.
    _
  • kieranb
    kieranb Posts: 1,674
    One other point, given all the training etc required, make sure you really like it as well, many pro riders rarely win (at Pro level) or make the news.
  • Zachariah
    Zachariah Posts: 782
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    Career advice at 14?


    Do whoever you fancy.

    Seriously.
    Fixed that for you.
  • lyn1
    lyn1 Posts: 261
    P_Tucker wrote:
    But a continental amateur has the chance of being picked up by a proper team - like I said before, no-one recruits from the British cycling scene. I'm assuming the OP nurtures a small hope of being the next Gilbert and retiring with millions in the bank - if his aim is to have a minimum wage job which in 20 years time will leave him with no useful skills and no money in the bank, then the UK scene is a great option.

    Do the World Tour teams (if thats your definition of proper pro teams) recruit directly from part-time amateurs or from paid full time riders in Continental or Pro Continental teams? I would have thought the latter.
    I agree that your scenario is true of the purely domestic UK "pro" teams, they will not progress. However the developments in the last few years means that the likes of Endura, Rapha and Motorpoint now race as much, if not more in Europe than in the UK and often in higher quality races that include World Tour and Pro Conti teams ...so riders have at least an equal, or even better opportuity to be seen than part time amateurs and they get some cash for doing it.. As it's a reasonably new trend it remains to be seen how many riders progress to Pro Conti/World Tour teams. Motorpoint and Endura both have young riders who it is believed will move forward in this way and Rapha have expressed a desire to recruit and develop youngsters along these lines. It's a viable alternative to moving to the Continent as an amateur, offers some financial benefits and is particularly suitable if you wish to continue your education, which links to your second point about skills..
  • blackhands
    blackhands Posts: 950
    On eof the problems about looking at UK Continental teams is that they have very small squads - probably under 80 riders across all the teams. Even if they maintain feeder teams you would be trying to break into a very small field, and even then only with what are internationally only 3 rd division teams. I agree that as these teams race on the continent there is a chance that a good rider will be picked up, but out of a squad of say 18 they have to get picked in a team of say 6 to ride these races. So a rider wold have to be pretty good to get himself in aposition to be noticed and picked up.

    I don't know what the score is these days but it was always the case that top teams were at the top of a chain of feeder teams and there were plenty of chances to get noticed. Of course the lower down the chain you are the less you get in theway of financial help so you would need to be self sufficient - at least to start with. However, I've know people who paid their way racing at an amateur level in Belgium.

    Perhaps one of the best reasons to go on the continent early is to get used to the culture, learn to spaek a language or two and get he experience of a different bike culture - one on which pro-tour racing is based.

    Having said that , don't forget that salaries even in protour teams are not that high - except for the few and that careers can be short - so don't neglect your school work
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    lyn1 wrote:
    P_Tucker wrote:
    But a continental amateur has the chance of being picked up by a proper team - like I said before, no-one recruits from the British cycling scene. I'm assuming the OP nurtures a small hope of being the next Gilbert and retiring with millions in the bank - if his aim is to have a minimum wage job which in 20 years time will leave him with no useful skills and no money in the bank, then the UK scene is a great option.

    Do the World Tour teams (if thats your definition of proper pro teams) recruit directly from part-time amateurs or from paid full time riders in Continental or Pro Continental teams? I would have thought the latter.
    I agree that your scenario is true of the purely domestic UK "pro" teams, they will not progress. However the developments in the last few years means that the likes of Endura, Rapha and Motorpoint now race as much, if not more in Europe than in the UK and often in higher quality races that include World Tour and Pro Conti teams ...so riders have at least an equal, or even better opportuity to be seen than part time amateurs and they get some cash for doing it.. As it's a reasonably new trend it remains to be seen how many riders progress to Pro Conti/World Tour teams. Motorpoint and Endura both have young riders who it is believed will move forward in this way and Rapha have expressed a desire to recruit and develop youngsters along these lines. It's a viable alternative to moving to the Continent as an amateur, offers some financial benefits and is particularly suitable if you wish to continue your education, which links to your second point about skills..

    Fair enough. I guess it remains to be seen how many actually do progress up the ranks in this way.
  • Pseudonym
    Pseudonym Posts: 1,032
    HAllez!! wrote:
    Hi my name is Harry, i'm 14 and i've been doing cycling for just over 4 months now and i've found out that i'm actually quite good at cycling. I fancy persuing a career in cycling and would just like a bit of advice to get me started.

    Thanks

    HAllez!!

    I don't want to burst your bubble fella, but specifically, what is it that makes you think you are 'quite good' at cycling - because lots of other people are also 'quite good'.

    That's not to say you couldn't become 'good' in time, but unless you are already winning youth races by a clear margin week in/week out then you might need to re-think.

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