No Italian ex-dopers in Italian nationals or Worlds team

afx237vi
afx237vi Posts: 12,630
edited January 2013 in Pro race
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/italian ... ping-pasts

A bold move, especially in relation to the Worlds - No Petacchi, Scarponi, Garzelli, Di Luca, Basso...

Comments

  • bipedal
    bipedal Posts: 466
    Wow - bold indeed, Bettini sounds miffed...
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    You have to give credit to the Italians. They used to be seen as the source of all doping, but they've really hammered it in the last few years.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Bronzie
    Bronzie Posts: 4,927
    Typically, Di Luca is going to appeal against it. Hopefully he'll get short shrift.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mroli wrote:
    Bravo. I look forward to other countries following suit.
    Why?

    It robs us of some good riders.

    The UK could do with Millar.
  • StageWinner
    StageWinner Posts: 202
    It's a tough one. Is it a deterrent? Nope. It's just a further penalty to riders that have served their time.

    It makes the Italian bosses look good and tough on dopers though.

    I can see a court challenge of some sort being successful – if the ASO is unable to keep riders out of the Tour, then I suspect something similar will happen here.
  • mroli wrote:
    Bravo. I look forward to other countries following suit.
    Why?

    It robs us of some good riders.

    The UK could do with Millar.
    Well worth it if it helps to clean up cycling IMO. I would rather watch someone from another country win who deserves it then someone from my own win from cheating.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    mroli wrote:
    Bravo. I look forward to other countries following suit.
    Why?

    It robs us of some good riders.

    The UK could do with Millar.
    Well worth it if it helps to clean up cycling IMO. I would rather watch someone from another country win who deserves it then someone from my own win from cheating.

    It's not just from the UK. Guys like Vino liven races up.

    I want him in the races I watch.
  • dougzz
    dougzz Posts: 1,833
    It's crap really. Either they're banned or not, the half way house of banned from this but not from that is just further evidence of the disorganised unprofessional mess the Sport of Professional Bike Racing is.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Are they saving the places for current dopers who have shown an ability to not get caught then? :wink:
  • deal
    deal Posts: 857
    I think its right that riders who represent there country should be held to a higher standard than when they ride for trade teams.

    I have no problem with David MIllar missing out on riding the olympic games so long as the same standard is applied to all british competitors, but it seems that desire for medals on the running track is more important than principles, ie. Christine Ohuruogu.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    Ohuruogu didn't fail a drugs test though. Chambers would be the athletics equivalent and, guess what, he is also banned from the Olympics.
  • tomb8555
    tomb8555 Posts: 229
    Pross wrote:
    Ohuruogu didn't fail a drugs test though. Chambers would be the athletics equivalent and, guess what, he is also banned from the Olympics.


    Neither did Millar..

    And what about the guy who was banned for lying about his whereabouts?


    Ohuruogu missed 3 drugs tests within a 1 year period due to not being where she said she was. That's ridiculous for a top level athlete who is familiar with the whereabouts sytem.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    The difference is she went through the system and after considering all the evidence accepted her reasons and gave a reduced ban for missing the tests. Millar was found in possession of doping equipment. Not trying to defend Ohuruogu but to me there is a definite distinction. I'm not familiar with the other case but again if there was evidence that he deliberately lied about his whereabouts then it is different to failing to turn up.
  • Wheelspinner
    Wheelspinner Posts: 6,691
    That "other case" would be The Chicken I guess.
    Open One+ BMC TE29 Seven 622SL On One Scandal Cervelo RS
  • mroli
    mroli Posts: 3,622
    I take no pleasure from watching Vino ride, especially given that he has been less than forthcoming about his doping antics. Millar is a "special" case in that he has been at the vanguard of the anti-doping movement, but I would generally still be against his inclusion. If he had confessed without being arrested, then maybe my opinions would have changed. My own personal view is a 2 year ban for doping (with the ability to ride during such period as Contador is doing, but for results to be null and void retrospectively) is an inadequate deterrent, but I am aware that other people have different opinions.

    I am reading Wiggins' "On Tour" and he talks about being kept of the podium by Vino and another Kazakhstan rider "doped" up. I think it is really bad that those who do not dope are being cheated in their careers by those who do dope and I am all for a harder line to be taken. This includes all riders of all nationalities - including Brits.

    The Italians have had a significant number of positives and a "hardline" stance like this may well serve to deter dopers at the outset of their careers - knowing that if you get caught doping you can't ride in the olympics, ride in the world, or even become national champion is a pretty big no no in my eyes.

    I know that Chambers has served his time, but it still grates with me to see him run in a GB shirt. From what I've read about Ohurugu, she was more guilty of being lax than doping - but these are fine lines and distinctions I haven't fully formulated in my "anti-doping" policy yet!
  • tarquin_foxglove
    tarquin_foxglove Posts: 554
    edited June 2011
    The problem with the whole doping punishment system is there is no incentive to come clean & blow open current doping practices, when you started, where you got it from, who you did it with etc.

    If you test positive just deny everything and come up with a story; Best case the federation buy it & you don't miss anything, worst case you miss two years.

    Adding subsequent bans from particular races, events or team management isn't a deterrent as people think they won't get caught. Conversely the harsher the punishment the more incentive to deny guilt and come up with a story to explain the anomalous result and hope your federation accepts it. The doped rider becomes a dead end, the public scapegoat & the doping network behind him get off scot free.

    Banning riders for life isn't the way to tackle the problem of long term widespread doping beyond unlucky individuals being stopped.

    David Millar still competing at the top of the sport & talking about the mistakes he's made is surely a better advert for clean riding than banning people for life.

    With that in mind my preference would be a 'truth & reconciliation' commission. Give people the chance to come clean about everything with no fear of sporting sanction, revise testing procedures based on that testimony to close loopholes and moving forward offer a reduction in ban to athletes that provide a full & frank confession which must including the naming of names of suppliers, doctors etc.
  • Keith1983
    Keith1983 Posts: 575
    I don't see how going "easy" on those that admit it is a way forward after all you then encourage people to dope, but psill their guts if they get caught. I think the only way is a hard line from the start and hope this will act as a deterrant. Or you just do the complete opposite and say, use as much of what the hell you like. Then if all the optipons are open to everybody voila, a level playing field.
  • Keith1983 wrote:
    I don't see how going "easy" on those that admit it is a way forward after all you then encourage people to dope, but psill their guts if they get caught. I think the only way is a hard line from the start and hope this will act as a deterrant.

    Currently if you catch 1 doper the sport is a small % cleaner than before. The rider is banned for two years, a clean rider takes his place in the same dirty system and faces the same choice dope or don't dope.

    My way would be you catch 1 doper, he can take a two year ban or he could have 1 year ban as long as he tells you who his Dr is, if the team supported it, his previously successful regime for doping & avoiding tests, who else he has doped with, etc.

    Instead of 1 doper being caught, you get a network of dopers, you've got the Dr who supplied them, you've got the team manager. Even people not directly caught are disrupted as they can no longer go & see that Dr.
    Keith1983 wrote:
    Or you just do the complete opposite and say, use as much of what the hell you like. Then if all the optipons are open to everybody voila, a level playing field.

    That would be open season then at all levels, semi-pro, amateur & junior. Would you encourage a child into a sport knowing they would have to dope to compete? Would you supply dope to your child to enable them to compete on this 'level playing field' for a chance to make a career out of it?

    You might not but I reckon lots of parents would.
  • Gingerflash
    Gingerflash Posts: 239
    "David Millar still competing at the top of the sport & talking about the mistakes he's made is surely a better advert for clean riding than banning people for life. "

    In my view he just shows anyone conisdering doping that they can still have a great career after being caught and sanctioned.

    You want to know what would be a deterrent against doping? Life or at least career-ending bans and criminal sanctions. Getting caught looks a lot scarier when you know that the Caribinieri are going to come and smash your door down; that you'll never earn a penny again from riding; and that you might spend five years in prison too.

    At the moment, a rider considering doping can look at Basso, Millar, Vino etc and see that getting caught didn't really affect them massively in the long-term and they're back on their bikes earning a lot and riding all the best races. In the other ear, you've got a dodgy doctor or team-mate teling you you won't get caught anyway and it might look very tempting.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Contador is the Greatest



  • All so that Di Rocco can get re-elected for a 3rd term. Italy's as bad as Spain. What's this about loads of cycling clubs set up specifically to help shore up his (and others', no doubt) voting base?
  • Trev The Rev
    Trev The Rev Posts: 1,040
    "David Millar still competing at the top of the sport & talking about the mistakes he's made is surely a better advert for clean riding than banning people for life. "

    In my view he just shows anyone conisdering doping that they can still have a great career after being caught and sanctioned.

    You want to know what would be a deterrent against doping? Life or at least career-ending bans and criminal sanctions. Getting caught looks a lot scarier when you know that the Caribinieri are going to come and smash your door down; that you'll never earn a penny again from riding; and that you might spend five years in prison too.

    At the moment, a rider considering doping can look at Basso, Millar, Vino etc and see that getting caught didn't really affect them massively in the long-term and they're back on their bikes earning a lot and riding all the best races. In the other ear, you've got a dodgy doctor or team-mate teling you you won't get caught anyway and it might look very tempting.

    Or, you can confess you cheated, tell the authorities the truth and get only a 6 month ban when you are near the end of your career anyway.

    Cycling, in fact all sports, have totally failed to stop or even control dug use and illegal practices. Cheating in sport is fraud and should be treated as such. Arrest, trial and imprisonment is the only deterrent.

    Cycling and other sports have had over 40 years to do something about illegal performance enhancement. It won't be any different 40 years from now.

    If drug taking in sport is not serious enough to get arrested and imprisoned then what are we worrying about. No one gets worked up about illegal performance enhancement in football, and only the most naive idiot believes they don't do what cyclists do.