Moutain biking and a prolapsed disc,

thunderer

I have been suffering lower back pain and pains down my right leg for the last 3 years, the doctor has diaganosed the cause as a prolapsed disc.

The doctor has advised that I should give up moutain biking in case it is made worse, I don't really want to take his advice !!! :twisted:

Perhaps anybody who is suffering could perhaps advise. I don't want to ignore what he says if it could lead to permaent problems, I am 49 and ride a hardtail, perhaps it might help iwith a swap to full suspension :?:

ifindoubtflatout

Hi.
Oh the joys of back pain
11 weeks ago I had my prolasped disc removed due to nerve compression,I'll not bore you with the ins and outs but I too suffered for about 4 years. I did manage to ride with it with good days and bad but I just gritted my teeth and got on with it, hindsite this was not a good idea as it can cause the disc to prolaspe even more because of the position you are in when cycling.
I just used to fill myself with painkillers before a ride,sometimes my back never bothered me but sometimes I would have to stop my ride after 30 mins and return home.The only advice I can give you is do plenty of stretching excersise before and after your ride.I was told by a few physios to try pilates as it helps builds your core muscles in your lower back thus aiding the sitting position while your on the bike.
My surgen told me that 40% of the general public have a prolasped disc and live a normal life with no effects,its just depends on the individual and how this effects them.
I hope this helps mate and if you need any more info please feel free to mail me.

As for you swapping bikes I dont think it will help in anyway,your still sitting in roughly the same position and everything still compresses your spine through your legs.

andrewjoseph

I had a prolapsed disk years ago, operation sorted it, but another incident caused other back problems.

I still have permanent pain in my back and legs but riding a bike doesn't make it worse (well sometimes it does).

I stress, I don't have a disk problem at the moment.

Get it sorted and you can get back out on a bike.

thunderer

ifindoubtflatout wrote:

Hi.

What have the medics said about riding agian following surgery ???

ifindoubtflatout

The surgens said just get back to your normal routine as soon as you can. Ive been off work for 11 weeks and I start back at work on weds. As for the bike I have riden it today and felt fine, Iam just waiting for the aching tommorrow. They told me that the operation shouldnt stop me from doing what I want, just take my time and build myself back up.

nozzac

Personally I wouldn't take a doctor's advice on chronic back pain. Acute episodes maybe but not long term. Most of them just want to hand out pills and very general advice. If you have a prolapsed disk then either it will get better on its own or it won't. If it does then you want to take the advice to lay off until then. if it doesn't then you need specialist help from consultants or a physio or similar. SInc eyou've had it for 3 years it appears that it's not going to get better on its own.

I've suffered from disk related back problems for most of my life and the right exercises and treatment can make a massive difference. Also each person is different and so general advice is often useless - that includes the advice not to ride a bike. I ride a bike and whilst it doesn't make my back better, it doesn't make it any worse either. I wouldn't recommend taking up powerlifting at this point but bike riding on a bike that fits doesn't put an especially big strain on the back. I must admit I cannot ride my old HT for very long but my more upright and comfy FS is absolutely fine.

My advice is to get advice from an expert not a generalist. There are people out there who dedicate their whole lives to treating back pain. A doctor has to know about a wide range of common ailments and is not an expert.

May I ask - does cycling make you back worse? What exercises are you doing to lessen the problems? Who else have you seen other than a GP? Have you had an MRI?

thunderer

Thanks for all for help so far.

My back was quite bad a couple of years ago ( it alls tarted after a fall) but got better after physio, but what set it of again was 7 days solid mtb doing the coast to coast (the mountanious way ) last September. I was referred by the Doctor to see the Physio dept but decided to go and see a Chirpractor, that didn't make much difference but he said I had plenty of movment in my spine. I have an xray of my hip, pelvis and spine with no damage noted. The doctor has refered me back to the Physio's so will see what happens next. I do excersis to help the coe but perhaps not enough. I think what I am after is if a carry on mountain biking (pain permitting) is reassurance that it will not do permaent damage. I accept it is probably not a good idea to to ride for 7 days continoulsy and try and limit riding to one day and then a rest day. Sorry if lots of typos can't find my glasses!!!

nozzac

thunderer wrote:

Thanks for all for help so far.

My back was quite bad a couple of years ago ( it alls tarted after a fall) but got better after physio, but what set it of again was 7 days solid mtb doing the coast to coast (the mountanious way ) last September. I was referred by the Doctor to see the Physio dept but decided to go and see a Chirpractor, that didn't make much difference but he said I had plenty of movment in my spine. I have an xray of my hip, pelvis and spine with no damage noted. The doctor has refered me back to the Physio's so will see what happens next. I do excersis to help the coe but perhaps not enough. I think what I am after is if a carry on mountain biking (pain permitting) is reassurance that it will not do permaent damage. I accept it is probably not a good idea to to ride for 7 days continoulsy and try and limit riding to one day and then a rest day. Sorry if lots of typos can't find my glasses!!!

Chiropractic is non-scientific nonsense. Go look up the history and theory of it - it's ridiculous. http://www.ukskeptics.com/chiropractic.php. Sure they might help some people in the short term but it's not because of "subluxation" theory but because some of them use more credible methods too. I.e. the less a chiropractor performs chiropractic and the more he acts like a physio, the better the results.

X-rays will only show gross bone damage so are not likely to be useful other than to rule that out. Only an MRI or CT scan can see disc or other soft tissue problems.

The physios should be more helpful if any good but I'd push for an MRI.

In the meantime I highly recommend googling Prof. Stuart McGill and reading what he says and maybe buying one of his clinical textbooks. The one called Ultimate Back Fitness and Performance is aimed at back pain in sports. It's not a light read but incredibly informative. I'd ask the physio if he's heard of McGill. If he has then I take that to be a good sign.

As you say 7 days of solid riding is likely bring out any problems that were already there. That is a world away from an afternoon ride!

thunderer

NozzaC I have ordered one of Prof' Gill's DVD's, and have a full suspension frame on its way. So fingers crossed. Thanks for your ideas

nozzac

I didn't know he did a DVD. I'd be interested to hear what it's like when you've tried it?

If nothing else, now you have a cool new FS bike to look forward to. Sod the back ache!

thunderer

Will let you know about DVD, however his books/dvds are not cheap.!

Frame should have arrived yestrday, but didn't Monday hopefully

ifindoubtflatout

Thunder can you let me know if the dvd's worth getting, I think £45 is a bit steep for a dvd but if it gets my back in gear then its worth it.

I found some of the excersise on a website. fixyourownback.com.

nozzac

ifindoubtflatout wrote:

Thunder can you let me know if the dvd's worth getting, I think £45 is a bit steep for a dvd but if it gets my back in gear then its worth it.

I found some of the excersise on a website. fixyourownback.com.

The ones most people do are his "Big 3" which are I see are on that site. They are general stability ones designed for the average guy with lower back problems. They might not be suited to a specific condition but short of a clinician prescribed exercises they are a very good place to start. They sure help me.

That's a good site by the way. Some interesting info on there. I'm surprised the guy is a Chiropractor because he clearly works with evidence-based medicine and not the magical BS that is Chiropractic.

cooldad

Have had a prolapsed disc for about 15 years now. Used to do a lot of gym, and concentrating on lower back muscles helped.
Doesn't give me hell much anymore (or maybe I've just got used to it) but when it does a long walk does wonders. Worst thing is not moving, sitting or lying until it gets better.
I have problems with sudden jerks, and apart fom Yeehaamcgee, sudden movements, so try do do things smoothly.
Used to get a bit tired and achy after long rides, but full sus helps a bit.
(48 and 3/4)

mea00csf

my advice would be: don't take advice from a forum, and push for an MRI if you can.

After over 4 years of off and on back pain I'm finally getting sorted, so I know this from bitter experience.

I had a bad fall when snowboarding, landing on my head. 2 days later my back collapsed and i was taken to hospital by ambulance. They diagnosed it as sciatica, due to a popped disc. After that i got milder versions of the pain off and on which i just put up with. The last few months it started getting worse with the last bout leaving me unable to walk so i went to the doctors. The doctor referred me to the physio. The physio was extremely concerned by the results of one of the manipulations she did, so rung the docs and recommended i needed an xray. The xray showed up a mutated vertebrae which formed an extra and strange joint with my pelvis. On the basis of this i was referred for an MRI which has shown i have sacroilliitus. I'm awaiting blood test results to see what the cause of it is, as it can be anything from an impact, an infection of the bone, through to degenerative arthritus of the spine. The latter would leave me with a completely fused spine if it isn't managed.
The point being, back pain is extremely complicated. My first diagnosis wasn't done properly, only having an x-ray, which means 4 years later, having put up with pain througout, I'm only just getting a correct diagnosis. I really wish I pushed harder earlier to get a full proper diagnosis.

Good luck with getting sorted!

Noel PT

mea00csf wrote:

my advice would be: don't take advice from a forum

Really?

So far the advice has all been pretty good. See a physio, read Mcgill's book and getting a full suss.

I been suffering for years and keeping my weight in check and core specific condition have been my biggest help.

Something else to consider is flexibility and good posture on the bike.

Good luck mate, from the sounds of it you're on your way to recovery already.

mea00csf

Noel PT wrote:

mea00csf wrote:

my advice would be: don't take advice from a forum

Really?

So far the advice has all been pretty good. See a physio, read Mcgill's book and getting a full suss.

I been suffering for years and keeping my weight in check and core specific condition have been my biggest help.

Something else to consider is flexibility and good posture on the bike.

Good luck mate, from the sounds of it you're on your way to recovery already.

Oh ok, more accurately, :roll: only take medical advice from a forum when the advice is go and see a qualified professional

diviy

Push for a mri and get it sorted with your doctor and if I were you I would pay for a private consultation with a consultant to get things rolling. I wish I did or i would not ended up like this
plus I am having another two ops at the end of sept

nozzac

Well no wonder it was hurting ;-)

MagnePange

Well I don´t know: probably your doctor - who can see you and your back live could tell a lot more than people at this forum. Who can´t see you, who don´t know who you are and who don´t know a sh*t about your doctor and still claim to be competent enough to judge his skills....and not to mention beeing able to point out a programe in a book that would fit you. Impressive.

The only advice given here I would listen to is to get a second opinion from another doctor. And see some physio (some one whit skill and knowhow). There are just as big variation in physios as there are in doctors.

To quit mountainbiking might be a upsetting sugestion. But then again - ask why you got that sugestion in the first place.....it might prove that your back gets worse and that you end up having trouble even walking if you don´t follows the doctor´s advice.

I think you should consult your doctor beafore you start a training program you bought on the internet!

nozzac

Well before you get too comfortable on your high horse you might want to note that this advice - to see an expert - was already given so you're not really adding to the mix to be honest.

GPs are by definition generalists, and have a bad reputation and history of treating chronic lower back pain. The vast majority just prescribe NSAIDs and give you a basic information sheet that is even more general than advice here. They don't have the time or experience to treat long term back problems. The best you can hope is to get them to refer you to someone who can. That is what the advice was - get referred, don't rely on a GP himself. I stand by that advice 100% having seen dozens of doctors and had 20 years of badly treated back pain.

However, millions of people world-wide have improved their situation by trying generalist back improvement plans such as the ones recommended here. Nobody said they are a replacement for a specialist, quite the opposite.

Maybe you ought to look at McGill's research before you judge his publications as "some training program you bought off the internet" because you'll see his books on the shelves of any decent physio with an interest in back care.

arigold

I'm suffering from sciatica (6 months) seen a chiropractor and physiotherapist every 2 weeks. Fortunately MTB isn't effecting me at all, however I had to quit football and canoing. I've been advices to do single leg raises to get the lower abdominal muscles to work and a lot of stretches.

MagnePange

Well I am very comfy on my high horses. And I intend to stay there to. I happen to be a GP myself. And I see patients with backpain everyday. Most of them I treat myself with ortopedic medicine and in some cases NSAID and in worst chase steroid injection. Some of them has a internal med problem that´s needs other therapy. To ad physiotherapy is an integrated part in my treatment.

Most of my patients in the doctor / physio team get well in less than 6 weeks.

Chiropractic is also a good way to treat back pain. There are a huge bulk of resarch that proves that. You talk about chronic back pain. Physiotherapy to people with chronic pain has proven to just as ineffective as any thing else. Once the pain circle is established for a prolonged period it´s hard to break - no matter profession. That´s the main reason why GP´s have a bad rep for backpain treatment. They are judged to treat people that can´t be cured. Most physios dropp these patient and refer them back to the GP. And that might give them a bit of unrealistic expectations of their doctor. No antibiotic for back pain....

Sum of things: see a GP with skills in ortopeadic medicine and that works thogheter with a good physio. Teamwork is always the best for the patient.

nozzac

Kind of odd that you say you're an MD but you think there is something called "ortopedic" or even "ortopaedic" when there isn't. I would have imagined that you'd be able to spell the area of medicine you use on a daily basis and no doubt get periodicals about etc?

As a scientifically trained MD you'll be aware that Chiropractic is unscientific nonsense. Do you believe in "subluxation theory"?

Not that any of this is particularly relevant. The point still stands that people were already told to go to a GP and try to get referred anyway so all of this adds very little to what has already been said.