driving to france

the flying smith

hi im looking for advice and info on driving to the alps next week iv booked ferry i just would like some advice from people who have driven their best route etc and also i would like to drive their and not pay the tolls can this be done ?

millimole

You don't need to use the toll Autoroutes, but you need more planning, and I wouldn't recommend trying it in one day.
You need to follow the 'old' N routes - these are the equivalent of the 'A' roads in this county - the old French single digit N roads (like N5) were the main trunk roads, but the French did a massive renumbering scheme a few years back, and passed the management of these roads back to the local authorites.
Remember that in France you will be follwinng signs to *places* not road number signs - road numbers are much less prominent than in the UK.
As regards routes, it's very much a personal choice, but I would avoid Paris as much as possible.
I've driven down to Evian-les-Bains a few times and generally headed directly east - stayed overnight in Francois-le-vitry and then gone down south from there by Autoroute; another year we went via Le Mans, stayed over in Blois and went South-East from there.
The Autoroutes do allow you to get a lot of rapid miles under your wheels, and the Autoroute Blanche as you go into the Alps is truly spectacular!
Why don't you try a few of the options on www.viamichelin.co.uk ?

greasedscotsman

millimole wrote:

Why don't you try a few of the options on www.viamichelin.co.uk ?

Or try Google maps, you can select an option to not use motorways...

I'm planning to drive down to Briancon for the TdF this year. Think I'll be using the motorways though, adds 4 hours to the total journey if I don't!

Pigtail

I've never been to the Alps, but have driven in France a lot - and generally find it very pleasurable. Road surfaces are good and if you avoid key holidays the roads aren't so busy as in the UK.

I generally go for the toll roads though. I've never quite understood 'the journey is part of the holiday' mentality. I usually just want to get there and then let my holiday start.

chrisba

Went to Alpe d'H a couple of weeks ago. Tolls on the motorways were about £120 return. Not using the toll roads will add a lot of time and hassle to your trip, the Autoroutes were pretty empty and we set the cruise control at 130kph and hardly ever over-rode it. About 8 hours from Calais to Grenoble. I'm sure the non-toll roads are prettier and more interesting, but I'd be surprised if you could do it in less that 12.

The French seem pretty good at sticking to speed limits, so don't expect to do much above them.

From Calais, follow signs to Paris to start with, then Lyon as soon as you get a choice. near Lyon follow signs to the airport ( Saint Exupery ), then Grenoble/Albertville or wherever you are going. For the Swiss Alps, the turn to Geneva is earlier.

durhamwasp

Having driven down to Bedoin for Ventoux and Alpe D'Huez in the last year from Dunkirk ferry terminal, i would strongly recommend using the toll roads. They really arent *that* expensive, particularly if you have 4 of you in the car/camper/mini bus and will save you about 3 hours on an already long journey!

We have always gone Dunkirk-Saint Quentin-Reims-Troyes-Dijon-Lyon on the A26/E17 and then either cut across to Grenoble or continued down to Provence. (keeping well away from Paris!)

Took us 10hrs to Alpe D'Huez and 12hrs to Ventoux - in a motorhome sitting at around 110km/h

I would guess if you wanted to go toll free you may well consider going up into Belgium, across to Germany, down to Switzerland and then into the Alps. May take a while though

usedtobefast

Can't help on the routing choice, but a number of people have told me recently that the French police are very hot on catching speeding motorists so the advice is to keep to the speed limits. I think I'm right in saying that they operate on the spot fines.

I'm driving down in July for the Etape going via Portsmouth-Caen route which then takes me East around the south side of Paris before heading south. My question is should I really be looking at avoiding Paris ? (It's on part of the peripheric (sp ?))

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millimole

Yes, they take speeding very seriously in France - on the spot fines are common, and they have been known to accompany offenders to cash machines! I don't know if that is still common though. The police do not mark their speed camera locations - they will operate their 'radars' from behind hedges, or even from under camouflage netting. There's been a lot in the French press recently about removing the warning signs from fixed speed camera locations as well - I'm not sure of the outcome of that, but it sounded as though it was imminent.
Another ruse, which may be an urban myth, is for them to look at the times on your toll tickets to see if you've exceeded the limit between two points.
I'd agree that the toll roads are well constructed, well maintained, generally free-flowing (except around public holidays) and the service areas are, by and large, clean and well supplied. The comparison with British Motorways, does not exist.
Why doesn't the OP consider going there by toll road, seeing how they enjoy it, or not, and then decide on a plan for the return.

thecrofter

I would avoid Paris, if you can, especially at peak times. It's just more hassle than it's worth, unless you're actually going to Paris.
Google maps reckons Caen to Alpe d'Huez avoiding tolls would take 13 hours whereas on the toll roads it takes 10hrs. My experience from driving in France would say that on the tolls you could probably do it in 8-9 hrs and avoid an overnight stop, but spend loads of money at the tolls. Or use the avoiding tolls route which would require an overnight stop and spend some money on food and a bed. That is if you're commited to crossing to Caen.
If you were to cross Dover-Calais, a much cheaper crossing, Then turn left and head down through Belgium and Luxemburg, it's is only 100K longer and the roads are dual carriageway or "motorway" pretty much the whole way. These roads have no tolls, Belgian roads are free, Lux roads are free and the petrols dirt cheap, the French roads run south next to the border and are therefore free as well (otherwise no one would use them). That's the way I would go if I were heading to South France. I have in the past done the tolls and the N routes........but not now I've worked out the route above.

thecrofter

durhamwasp wrote:

, down to Switzerland and then into the Alps. May take a while though

To drive on the motorways in Switzerland you need a vignette (little sticker for your windscreen) which you can purchase on-line before you go (100E IIRC) if you arrive without one they'll sell you one or turn you away.

mz__jo

viamichelin for the route details, flip between michelin recommended, fastest, shortest and avoiding tolls to see all the options. The advantage of using the route card from michelin is that it will have the currently known fixed radars on it. For the mobile stuff there is very little reliable data base; the only risk free way is to stick to the limits; following the locals is a bit like the rhythm method, risky.
I do have a link for the trafficlight radars but it is not on this computer, i will post it later.
For alternatives to the major migration routes check out bison futé
http://www.bison-fute.equipement.gouv.f ... Accueil.do
but at this time of year it is not really necessary. In july and august it comes into its own. Bison futé are responsable for the road signs with a yellow bis on them, usually for alternative routes to and from Paris (since its the parisiens that create most of the grief, says the provincial).
It is worth noting that foreign plates are not a reliable protection from cross border pursuits by the justice. I haven't heard of the french police using the british police to chase up offences in France but I do know of a case of the Italian police using the gendarmes to catch up with a french driver (brother of an old work colleague) for a fairly minor offence committed in Italy. If they can get money out of you they will (and Sarko is a bit hot on this at present so be warned; computerised vehicle licensing has its disadvantages).
When I first came to France I avoided péages at all costs, now I use them without too much thought although I do take pleasure in finding the parallel alternatives. Can't help without Calais-Alps though. Be warned that the scenic options both on GPS and Michelin can be very "scenic" (like unclassified roads). Check out on a road map before starting if you don't want surprises.
Have a good holiday
Cheers Jo

culverwood

durhamwasp wrote:

We have always gone Dunkirk-Saint Quentin-Reims-Troyes-Dijon-Lyon on the A26/E17 and then either cut across to Grenoble or continued down to Provence. (keeping well away from Paris!)

+1 to the Reims route to the Alps. You can just as easily start in Calais instead of Dunkirk.

If you want to pull off the autoroute earlier you can leave at Dijon and take the road via Besancon and then through the Jura via Pontarlier and Yverdon, beautiful countryside.

dilemna

Use the route nationales if you can stick to the speed limit. French police are hot on enforcing speed limits. They can issue on the spot fines which used to be £90 if you can't or won't pay your vehicle is impounded until you can and then the penalty increases. If you are caught excessively speeding the gendarmes will get you before the local assizes the next day or asap where you can be fined a huge amount and banned from driving in France which could ruin your sojourn. I know as it happened to a colleague of mine when I worked in France who went through a short 60kmh speed limit on a RN at 90kmh. She was fined £2,500 and banned for one month. She had to be driven around which caused her major problems doing her job which she nearly lost. So if on a long straight RN the speed limit drops to 60kmh for say 100m due to passing through hamlet you drive at your peril if you break the speed limit so much as 1km over. The gendarmes used concealed speed guns and unmarked cars. A foreign car is an easy target so don't speed. Then of course if there is a lot of freight on the road or agricultural vehicles traffic jams can easily form and it can takes ages to travel any sort of distance so the autoroute might be the better choise. Just avoid the 4 busy weekends where the whole of France is on the move. Re autoroute tolls. Yep gendarmes do stop vehicles they suspect of speeding and check times on tickets and clocking in times at booths. If the time for travelling a hypothetical strectch of autoroute sticking to the speed limit is say 14 minutes and you do it in 11 you either pull over at an aire or go through at your peril as the gendarmes might pull you, then you are fecked. £90 fine on the spot. In these hard economic times I suspect some gendarmes can be a little zealous.

Oh and it is a legal requirement to carry a spare set of bulbs and warning triangle for when you tombe en panne. The speed limit on the autoroute drops from 130kmh to 110kmh when it is raining. The speed limits on RN is 90kmh and often you can struggle to do any where near this if traffic is heavy.

Of the two I would take the autoroute. French autoroutes are far far better than any motorway we have. Service station staff are pretty and friendly. The food is actually edible unlike British service stations. Formula One is a cheap hotel chain if you need to stay over night. They are frequently located close to autoroute exits and entries.

And Italian police ........... depending on which ones stop you, they can be as corrupt as politicians. They generally have several receipt books - the official one and "others". I got stopped driving a French van near Milan simply because my vehicle was French. The shoved a piece of paper in my face and said "Pagari!!!" Pay!. I looked at the list of fines at the top was mine 50,000 lire about £25 then going down to 2,500,000 lira. I paid and didn't argue as an Englishman who was arguing driving a french registered van might have tempted them to rapidly up the fine.

Bon voyage.

culverwood

Oh and it is a legal requirement to carry a spare set of bulbs and warning triangle for when you tombe en panne.

As of the 1st of July 2008 you are required to carry not only a warning triangle in your car but also a fluorescent safety vest while driving in France. In fact the safety vest must be carried inside the car and not in the boot. So keep your safety vest under your seat or in your glove box etc.... The theory being that if you breakdown in a dangerous place you should get your safety vest on before getting out of the car in France.

If you fail to have these available there are some hefty on the spot fines if caught driving in France without them! The standard fines are around 90 euros per item. Remember to ensure your reflective jacket is CE approved.

mz__jo

Here is the link to the site with the trafficlight radars. These are a bit of a novelty still so be warned, they will undoubtedly multiply if they prove profitable.
http://www.radar-feu.com/interstitiel.php
You have to wade a bit through or round the publicity.

The reflective jackets are sold in most supermarkets, price around €2.50. Don't pay £25 for a kit at the ferry terminal shop! And yes they do need to be kept in the car. I can't remember if the law says 1 or 2 per vehicle. We prefer to have 1 for each passenger. In France you only need one triangle but in Spain you need two.

Cheers Jo

wheelygood

I think you re also supposed to carry a spare set of bulbs for lights/indicators too.

the flying smith

thanks everyone for the advice i leave thursday morning im in no hurry so i think il give the tolls a miss and set a sat nav up to avoid them my 1st race isnt till sat morning in bourg de osians thanks again for all the advice

greasedscotsman

the flying smith wrote:

thanks everyone for the advice i leave thursday morning im in no hurry so i think il give the tolls a miss and set a sat nav up to avoid them my 1st race isnt till sat morning in bourg de osians thanks again for all the advice

Race? Bourg d'Osions? Yikes! Hopefully a race from BdO to Grenoble!

Lazarus

millimole wrote:

Another ruse, which may be an urban myth, is for them to look at the times on your toll tickets to see if you've exceeded the limit between two points.

Last year we flew to Geneva and had a company transfer us to Bourg D'Osians and during the transfer i asked him about this and was told it is a myth, BUT he said what people do not notice is the Speed Camera a few miles before the toll :!: :!: :!: The police wait patiently at the toll then pull the offender to one side . Obviously people don't want to admit to driving without paying any attention to their surroundings and hence a myth is born.

Lazarus

Interestingly after last years trip (first time ) I fell in love with the place ! ! !

So Flying Smith if you can hang around till August down there, I'll go for a ride with you up Alpe D'Huez

Hope you can post a report on your trip down there , this year I'll be driving down and it will be interesting to hear how you get on.

Ands

We have done the toll routes to/from Calais and Ventoux and Bourg d'Oisans the last 5 years. Last year we went to the Vendee first and then cross-country to Bourg d'Oisans without using the toll routes. Have to say that it was pretty tedious doing such a long stretch on stop/start roads. Some of the RNs are OK but you never know when you might get stuck behind a tractor for miles on end. Last year, even with sat nav and a brand new AA map, we still got lost on the RN a few times due to being diverted off the main roads and onto local roads at roadworks, where new link roads were being built.

culverwood

the flying smith wrote:

thanks everyone for the advice i leave thursday morning im in no hurry so i think il give the tolls a miss and set a sat nav up to avoid them my 1st race isnt till sat morning in bourg de osians thanks again for all the advice

If you really want to avoid the tolls I would still go via Reims taking the Chaussée Brunehaut to Arras from Thérouanne then following the 1st World War front line down through Bapaume, Peronne, Laon to Reims. From Reims go to Chalons then Bar sur Aube to Langres. Next via Gray to Besancon and from there via Pontarlier to St Croix, Geneva and Aneccy to Bourg d'Oisans.

Towns worth stopping for the night in include Reims, Langres and Besancon.

chrisba

The speed limit on the autoroute drops from 130kmh to 110kmh when it is raining

Although, as noted by several posters, French drivers are good at sticking to speed limits, the 110kmph in the rain rule seems to be widely ignored.

Also, French drivers have pretty good lane discipline, but are terrible tailgaters, almost suicidally so, so check your mirrors regularly if you are in the fast lane. Some of them leave their indicators on when pulling out to overtake. Quite a good idea, as it reminds you to pull back in.

One odd thing on the Autoroutes is that, like the UK, they often have a "crawler lane" for slow traffic on a long hill. However, when that lane finishes it is the fast lane that disappears, not the slow one. Can catch you out if you are overtaking somebody who is in the middle lane.