Should my SPD's do this

Catfish

Hi all I've been useing spd's for about 18 months now on both my mtb and commuter bike.
I have shimmano M520 pedals on both bikes and started of with Wiggle DHB M1 shoes, all fine untill the weather got a cold and wet, so fed up with over shoes i got Shimmano MW80's.
After about 50 miles i noticed a grinding noise comming from the pedal area,
thinking it could be the bearings i serviced the pedals, this didn't help.
So to cut a long story short it turns out that the cleat is actually touching the pedal (metal to metal), this only happens on the MW80's and not the DHB M1's.
I tried contacting Shimmano through the web site twice but no responce.
So what i want to know is should the cleat be touching the pedal or is it a compatability issue between the M520's and the MW80's.
The thing is apart from the noise being anoying the contact between pedal and foot feels vauge and is off putting.
Not what you expect from shoes that retail for £145.

nicklouse

they either touch or they do not. often it depends on how worn the shoe sole is.

Catfish

Wow 170 views and only 1 reply.
The shoes were brand new, infact they still have very little wear on the sole.
Mostley used for commute so very little hike-a-bike.
Just wandering if a pedal with a bigger contact patch, say the ones with a cage round them would give more support. the M520's only have two spots about 8mm square in contact with the shoe and the sole is soft so it gives way under weight, allowing the cleat to touch the pedal.

madmole

Have you checked that the cleat is tight and close to the shoe. Maybe its a little proud of the sole

Shimano shoes normally are a very good match for their peddles

cooldad

Catfish wrote:

Wow 170 views and only 1 reply.
The shoes were brand new, infact they still have very little wear on the sole.
Mostley used for commute so very little hike-a-bike.
Just wandering if a pedal with a bigger contact patch, say the ones with a cage round them would give more support. the M520's only have two spots about 8mm square in contact with the shoe and the sole is soft so it gives way under weight, allowing the cleat to touch the pedal.

Wow maybe no one has the same problem.
Caged SPD's are rubbish, the worst of both worlds.

madmole

Disagree, the new caged XTR and XT peddles are fantastic. Very firm underfoot, but only good for SPD shoes. Axle is indented so that foot sits closer to shaft than normal

The old DX caged pedles are ok, and do mean you can ride in trainers if you need to. More importantly on all of them the shafts are servicable

cooldad

Err right - your words - only good for SPD shoes or light use in trainers.
Totally rubbish as flats under any serious conditions. Plus it appears that the cages make it harder to clip in.

madmole

"Plus it appears that the cages make it harder to clip in."

Dont see how, the shoe doesnt touch the cage. its the machine flats on the side of the centre that are the extra platform. The cage makes it far easier to align/spin them to clip in and protects them a bit

The cage is more for show, to help align the peddle to clip in and are a little kinder on the shins

I suppose they might help if you tried trainers, but I cant cycle properly if not clipped in nowadays and they are very low. The DX's would be better

nicklouse

Catfish wrote:

Wow 170 views and only 1 reply.
The shoes were brand new, infact they still have very little wear on the sole.
Mostley used for commute so very little hike-a-bike.
Just wandering if a pedal with a bigger contact patch, say the ones with a cage round them would give more support. the M520's only have two spots about 8mm square in contact with the shoe and the sole is soft so it gives way under weight, allowing the cleat to touch the pedal.

and the cleat should just touch the pedal. all that keeps it from touching is the small contact between the rubber and the axle area and also the small tops of the clips front and rear.

what you have described is totally normal. other than you may have a little more movement in one set.

omegas

I have used MW80 shoes for a few years and use 520, 424 and 647 pedals , I have not noticed the cleat rubbing on any of them or any noise coming from them , I also use other Shimano shoes .

nicklouse

Catfish
Just had a thought. what tension are you running?

Catfish

Just to up date
The cleats are tightend to the recomended tourque.
Tension is set about 3 full turns up from min. Do you think more tension may help?
I will try and up load some photos of the wear on the cleat and pedal if this will help.

madmole

Its interesting as the depth that the cleat projects should be fixed as the thickness of the cleat and its distance from the sole are parameters that Shimano set with their SPD specifications

Also the sole should rest on the top of the for and aft plate, the plate itself is a set thickness which should all but fill the gap between the sole and the cleat heat. The cleat therefore should always project the same distance under the retaining plates on the pedal.

The cleat should NOT hit or rub on the shaft, it will be close, but shouldnt touch

Could be thinner than spec spring plates, thicker than spec cleat, Sole of shoe around cleat may not be flat, cleat could be too proud of sole, retaning bolts could be proud of cleat. Cleat could be deformed

Tension is not a parameter affecting cleat height, as the retaining plates should be down at the same level regardless of tension. If anything, low tension would alow the foot to lift slightly each stroke. High tension would not pull the plate lower than its stops

I would want to work this out as the peddle barrel is reasonably thin and could wear through

Catfish

O.K More info.
two sets of genuine shimmano cleats both brand new on two different shoes (shimmano mw80's and dhb m1's) two sets of shimmano m520 pedals both the same age and same amount of use.
The problem is only on the mw80 shoe which has got very little if no wear on the sole. Would a shimmano sevice center be able to check the shoes to see if the problem was with them, if so does any one know one near Crewe.
Also tension is set 4 clicks form min not three full turns as i siad before, that is about a much as i feel comfotable with.
The cleat is touching the metal/steel part of the retaining plate not the pedal shaft (alloy part).

madmole

Measure the height from the sole to the top of the cleat on all 4 shoes

madmole

Just popped into workshop to take a look at some customers bikes

5 with SPD peddles, NONE have marks on the axles, although two were older sets with the cleat holder as a single X piece connecting front and rear, but even these dont have wear on the base. the base of the cleat does not contact the peddle in the old or new designs

The flat plates that hook around the nose and butt of the cleat are the only contact areas by design, unless your shoe also has bits that touch the cage, sides, or you have the new XTR/XT Trail peddles that have the machined flats at the side for more contacts (By the way I'm running an XTR set of these at present and think they are the dogs dangly bits)

A local gym where I teach Spinning and service the 27 NXT bikes (all with Spd's so I'll take a look at those tonight) has non Shimano peddles and the retaining plates are slightly thinner than spec, the result is a little click each rev as the cleat gap beween shoe and cleat has a little free play. Its only just noticable, but very annoying. A single bit of insulation tape on the top of the retaining plates sorts it, but doesnt last

omegas

when you walk in your MW80 shoes are you walking on the base of the shoe or on the cleat, the base of mine have probably worn away a bit over the years but the cleat is still clear of the ground.

MattJWL

madmole wrote:

cleat could be too proud of sole

My money's on this, somehow. I never got the symptoms that you're describing, but it sounds very plausible. Can you upload a photo of the cleat area of the offending shoes?

Catfish

Some pics, had to colour the pedal and cleat with pen and go for a ride to hi-light the contact point.







Hope this clears up a few questions.

madmole

Cleat is not centered on the shoe and looks thicker one side than the other, its not sitting level

Having said that the places on the pedle where the blue has rubbed off look like the correct places (blured photo aside).

Is the square patch on the white to the left of the pedle photo wear or just a differenc colour?

cooldad

Pedal, pedals. Please.

Catfish

madmole wrote:

Cleat is not centered on the shoe and looks thicker one side than the other, its not sitting level

Having said that the places on the pedle where the blue has rubbed off look like the correct places (blured photo aside).

Is the square patch on the white to the left of the pedle photo wear or just a differenc colour?

The square patch to the left is wear, this was done by my dhb m1's as they have a very hard plastic sole, but having said that it is only the paint.

I know they arn't centered but that is how i have them set, if i move them to the middle of the shoe then the shoe rubs on the crank arm.

Catfish

cooldad wrote:

Pedal, pedals. Please.

if you mean what type, they are simmano m520's