Carbon Wheelsets

Headhuunter

So I've flicked through thread below on Chinese carbon wheels but I need to ask a basic question... What are the advantages and disadvantages of carbon wheels, in a nutshell?
http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... ght=wheels

I'm assuming that carbon wheels are generally lighter (although not that much judging by the number bunged around on the above thread). I also see that you need special brake pads? Also are there problems associated with carbon clincher wheels? Can you only use carbon wheels in dry, summer conditions?

I've got Shimano RS80s at the moment, what sort of difference wouldI notice?

Please help!

porker33

I appreciate you are talking about all carbon wheelsets, but it did surprise me when you said you currently had RS 80's.....did you notice much difference with these over your previous wheels in terms of difference in materials?

Headhuunter

porker33 wrote:

I appreciate you are talking about all carbon wheelsets, but it did surprise me when you said you currently had RS 80's.....did you notice much difference with these over your previous wheels in terms of difference in materials?

Yes, definitely. I had some kind of factory supplied wheels on the bike when I bought it - I think Shimano WHR55 or something which I could feel flexing when I pushed hard on the pedals up hills etc. The RS80s are much more rigid....

porker33

Tks, that makes sense, is there any way of telling if the extra stiffnees is down to the carbon rim or just overall better build of the wheel though?

Billy Dunlop

Nearest I got to carbon wheels in my day was riding over a slag heap near Barnsley.

Headhuunter

porker33 wrote:

Tks, that makes sense, is there any way of telling if the extra stiffnees is down to the carbon rim or just overall better build of the wheel though?

Probably a bit of both I suppose...

pinkbikini

Headhuunter wrote:

So I've flicked through thread below on Chinese carbon wheels but I need to ask a basic question... What are the advantages and disadvantages of carbon wheels, in a nutshell?
!

Based purely on my experience of full carbon clinchers (Enve 45s):

Disadvantages - expensive. Can't ride on a flat with any confidence at all for fear of dinging the rim on a pothole. Therefore a puncture = stopping quickly. Costly to replace if you race them and some idiot takes out your front wheel

Advantages - looks, looks, looks. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Great once up to speed, although this is true of non-carbon deeper sections too (previously had Mavic Carbones).

Not much difference - stopping power (wet and dry) with Swissstop yellow is very good, some brake squeal that toe-ing in won't cure but nothing too bad. Stiffness feels slightly less than my Ksyrium SLs but still perfectly stiff enough.

Headhuunter

pinkbikini wrote:

Headhuunter wrote:

So I've flicked through thread below on Chinese carbon wheels but I need to ask a basic question... What are the advantages and disadvantages of carbon wheels, in a nutshell?
!

Based purely on my experience of full carbon clinchers (Enve 45s):

Disadvantages - expensive. Can't ride on a flat with any confidence at all for fear of dinging the rim on a pothole. Therefore a puncture = stopping quickly. Costly to replace if you race them and some idiot takes out your front wheel

Advantages - looks, looks, looks. Don't underestimate the importance of this. Great once up to speed, although this is true of non-carbon deeper sections too (previously had Mavic Carbones).

Not much difference - stopping power (wet and dry) with Swissstop yellow is very good, some brake squeal that toe-ing in won't cure but nothing too bad. Stiffness feels slightly less than my Ksyrium SLs but still perfectly stiff enough.

Thanks. So they don't sound that amazing.... Based on what you've said, the most important advantage seems to be "looks"!

roadracedave

porker33 wrote:

Tks, that makes sense, is there any way of telling if the extra stiffnees is down to the carbon rim or just overall better build of the wheel though?

It is unlikely that the RS-80's are stiffer due to the rim, especially as it is a largely aluminium rim, with IIRC a 0.6mm carbon wrap. It is more likely that the extra stiffness results from the wheel being built better, and with a higher spoke tension.

With regard to the OP, carbon wheels have a number of advantages, the main ones being that they can weigh a lot less relative to the rim depth, and they can be much stiffer. I say 'can' because it all depends on the quality of the rim in the same way that a poor quality alloy rim will be heavy and will flex. The main disadvantages are that they tend to be a lot less resistant to impacts and they are generally considered to have poorer braking.

Carbon clinchers have had a lot said about the strength of the rims, and that when descending the excessive heat build up and cause the rims to explode. I think that this is largely exaggerated, and unless you are doing multiple alpine descents, one after the other, you don't really need to worry. Obviously carbon clinchers have the bonus of the lower weight, with the ease of using clincher tyres.

You will need to use carbon specific pads on any full carbon rims, but you can use the wheels in any conditions, just be aware that in the wet carbon rims have got very poor breaking.

RS-80's aren't particularly heavy, so you may not notice the weight loss of a carbon rim, but if you went to a 50mm rim, you would certainly notice the aerodynamic benefits.

Edit: pinkbikini beat me to it!

Headhuunter

roadracedave wrote:

porker33 wrote:

Tks, that makes sense, is there any way of telling if the extra stiffnees is down to the carbon rim or just overall better build of the wheel though?

It is unlikely that the RS-80's are stiffer due to the rim, especially as it is a largely aluminium rim, with IIRC a 0.6mm carbon wrap. It is more likely that the extra stiffness results from the wheel being built better, and with a higher spoke tension.

With regard to the OP, carbon wheels have a number of advantages, the main ones being that they can weigh a lot less relative to the rim depth, and they can be much stiffer. I say 'can' because it all depends on the quality of the rim in the same way that a poor quality alloy rim will be heavy and will flex. The main disadvantages are that they tend to be a lot less resistant to impacts and they are generally considered to have poorer braking.

Carbon clinchers have had a lot said about the strength of the rims, and that when descending the excessive heat build up and cause the rims to explode. I think that this is largely exaggerated, and unless you are doing multiple alpine descents, one after the other, you don't really need to worry. Obviously carbon clinchers have the bonus of the lower weight, with the ease of using clincher tyres.

You will need to use carbon specific pads on any full carbon rims, but you can use the wheels in any conditions, just be aware that in the wet carbon rims have got very poor breaking.

RS-80's aren't particularly heavy, so you may not notice the weight loss of a carbon rim, but if you went to a 50mm rim, you would certainly notice the aerodynamic benefits.

Edit: pinkbikini beat me to it!

Thanks... Interesting...

roadracedave

What <b>pinkbikini</b> said about the carbon clinchers being expensive, isn't necessarily true, the cheap-er chinese carbon wheels can often be bought for a fraction of the price of top end branded wheels like enve, zipp etc

Also, they don't really have to look anything special. Yes, deep section wheels do tend to look cool, but completely nude, un-decaled wheels can look cool and don't need to have big white stickers on them.

Carbon wheels should be stiffer too. It will depend on the spoke count and the depth of the rim, but as long as you are comparing like-for-like, i.e 20mm rim vs 20mm rim, then carbon rims tend to be stiffer. I've got a pair of Zipp 404's and they are stiffer than any of my other wheels, and I probably wouldn't want them to be any stiffer (I am only 60kgs though).

The benefits are there, its just whether you feel there are enough benefits to warrant buying another pair of wheels.

Headhuunter

So in summary so far...

+ives
Possibly a touch lighter
Stiffer
Looks

-ives
Poorer braking (unless using Swisstop Yellow)
Need special brake pads
Easily damaged
They may explode if you do multiple alpine descents!

porker33

It's more or less sold the Rs80 or DA CL24 to me

Cornish-J

speak brake pads isnt exactly a negative - it's about 10quid

and they dont damage easily - it's just expensive to replace if you do damage one.

I use mavic cosmics, granted they arent full carbon (alloy braking surface) but i use them all the time on crappy cornish country lanes etc and never had any issues, they're still as true as the day i got them. (i do have the luxury of 2 years unlimited warranty though which gives you more confidence to take them anywhere)

Evil Laugh

My experience of Reynolds carbon clichers w/ reynolds blue pads is....

Looks, awesome

Braking, as alloy type pads in dry and drizzle/intermittent rain. In the proper relentless downpour type wet, akin to sticking your hand out the window of a moving car, ie futile. Pads wear quickly.

Stiffness, would totally depend on the build of the wheel I guess. In my case on par with da c24, not anywhere near as stiff as r-sys for eg. So take each wheel on its own merits regardless of rim material.

Rim wear, seemed to not change at all in approx 1000 miles of use.

Robustness, no qualms using these wheels over the rough stuff, seem very sturdy.

Weight, few 100g lighter than equivalent rim size alloy wheels, could be even lighter if budget increased. Felt almost as good as c24s as a climbing wheel.

Id take each wheel on its own. Doubt you'd see much improvement over your rs80 wheels in terms of performance outside of aero benefits. Wheels will likely feel heavier, less comfortable, more difficult to handle, cheap hubs etc, wet braking issues.

What are you looking for from the wheel?

Headhuunter

Evil Laugh wrote:

My experience of Reynolds carbon clichers w/ reynolds blue pads is....

Looks, awesome

Braking, as alloy type pads in dry and drizzle/intermittent rain. In the proper relentless downpour type wet, akin to sticking your hand out the window of a moving car, ie futile. Pads wear quickly.

Stiffness, would totally depend on the build of the wheel I guess. In my case on par with da c24, not anywhere near as stiff as r-sys for eg. So take each wheel on its own merits regardless of rim material.

Rim wear, seemed to not change at all in approx 1000 miles of use.

Robustness, no qualms using these wheels over the rough stuff, seem very sturdy.

Weight, few 100g lighter than equivalent rim size alloy wheels, could be even lighter if budget increased. Felt almost as good as c24s as a climbing wheel.

Id take each wheel on its own. Doubt you'd see much improvement over your rs80 wheels in terms of performance outside of aero benefits. Wheels will likely feel heavier, less comfortable, more difficult to handle, cheap hubs etc, wet braking issues.

What are you looking for from the wheel?

Not necessarily looking for new wheels but was just interested in knowing whether it was worth blowing a few hundred quid on a set of these bargain Chinese wheels and if there was any advantage over my RS80s.... Sounds like there isn't much point really....

Evil Laugh

You could try and pick up a set of attacks or assaults second hand and see if you like them. if not sell em on, usually go for around £400.

I'll probably get a set of assaults, dv46 or similar if I see for a good price.

But for now, just chopped my da c24 cls and attacks in for the DA c24 tubulars. Hoping I haven't made a big boo boo. In my head I'm gonna get a lighter, much stiffer, better riding c24cl but there's not much written about them outside of the big wheels test, figured they'd likely be more comfy and better on the hills than the c35 i was also looking at. Hopefully the perfect low profile climbing wheels. :?

philhul

I have a pair of 60mm carbon clinchers from china and can't fault them