Lee Harvey Oswald ...JFK

mfin

Always been interested in JFK's history and the assassination theories... the Stone film sparked off a lot of interest and apparent falsehoods, for example the 'magic bullet theory' how it was intimated it moved all over the place in mid-air and hence was evidence of at least another shot. But this for example was proven to not to be the case as they hadnt accounted for Kennedy being sat higher and to the right (had assumed he was sat directly behind Connally) and this then drew pretty much a straight line through the injuries to Kennedy and Connally from that particular bullet.

But then you get that bullet being found pretty much 'pristine' and all the arguments around that.

Thought Id start a thread and see if there's any good discussion and JFK links from it.

Conspiracy or just Oswald? ....a massive subject!!!!

bompington

You'll need one of these

Frank the tank

I too have always been facinated by the JFK assassination and the conspiricy theories. I'm not so sure LHO acted alone and I think he probably was a "patsy". But, OTOH a conspiricy to bump off the president of the USA by insiders would have to involve too many people for the truth not to come out.

Anonymous

I blame Wiggle.

greasedscotsman

It was on a double episode of Quantum Leap the other day, just watch that, explains it all...

Stewie Griffin

I'm waiting for mythbusters to do an episode on it. Why haven't they done one already? Maybe they were warned off :shock:

mfin

Frank the tank wrote:

I too have always been facinated by the JFK assassination and the conspiricy theories. I'm not so sure LHO acted alone and I think he probably was a "patsy". But, OTOH a conspiricy to bump off the president of the USA by insiders would have to involve too many people for the truth not to come out.

Fantastic topic isnt it... one documentary was quite convincing of the lone gunman theory but Im not convinced (im not one for conspiracy theories by nature though, moon landings, 9/11 and all that...)

'Rush to Judgement' was always a good watch, just for lots of grassy knoll witnesses and that, and being made quite soon after the event http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTpCjhJ5K7g

Also, ever watched The Men Who Killed Kennedy?? also on youtube split into Episodes each of 5 10min vids http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAynJWVCO9Q ...the contract killer stuff with the grassy knoll guy using ammunition designed to break apart or explode on impact and all that....

This was a little interesting one too for a few spare minutes viewing, about the Storm Drain shooter possibility
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfU9tqbA_hY ...think there were records of police being despatched to the river area it led to that the chap walks through too.

Ben6899

I have a confession...

I was the 2nd gunman on the grassy knoll.

mask of sanity

I thought it was explained in Red Dwarf?! :P

shockedsoshocked

Apparently, only 2 presidents have ever considered an interest free monetary system.

Lincoln and Kennedy...

Wheelspinner

If you have the time, read "Oswald's Tale" by Normal Mailer, published mid 90s. Only about 1100 pages or so.... but interesting reading.

TMR

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Apparently, only 2 presidents have ever considered an interest free monetary system.

Lincoln and Kennedy...

Kennedy wanted to take the right to issue US currency away from the Fed (a private not Government owned bank) and issue it via the US Treasury.

There is no way that JFK was killed by Oswald - it's a classic CIA operation.

TMR

Frank the tank wrote:

I too have always been facinated by the JFK assassination and the conspiricy theories. I'm not so sure LHO acted alone and I think he probably was a "patsy". But, OTOH a conspiricy to bump off the president of the USA by insiders would have to involve too many people for the truth not to come out.

No it wouldn't. There are countless examples of such operations throughout recent US history. Part of the success relies on the sheeple having such absolute faith in their Government to protect them and to do what is 'right' that their complicity in such events is unthinkable to the average Joe in the street.

bompington

The Mad Rapper wrote:

There are countless examples of such operations throughout recent US history.

What, countless plots to bump off the president? They're not very good if they've only succeeded with one.

pb21

What would have been the motive to kill him if it was part of a conspiracy?

jswba

Michele Ferrari was the second gunman.

bigmat

I suggest the OP reads American Tabloid by James Ellroy - its pure fiction, but its better than Oliver Stone's JFK!

Also, check out "Had to be Playing on the Jukebox" by Ginsberg (I think that's right - been a while), nice summary of conspiracies in there - "the CIA, and the Mafia in cahoots!".

mfin

JFK the film was a pretty good bit of filmmaking, I enjoyed it as a film, but had a lot of artistic licence even to follow the theory that it did.

The bit about the happenings I always found the most obviously dubious as far as the facts go that can be really seen is the part that most people have seen the zapruder film or frames where the head shot injury takes place... and the autopsy photographs are there to be seen but, when you see the extent of the injuries on the film frame and look at the autopsy photographs, it just doesnt look like a head that went through that to me.

Of course, once you look at that, if it looks odd, then you do get into the 'were the injuries made to look consistent with a shot from the schoolbook depository?' and 'was it to make it not look like a shot had come from anywhere near the front?'

You do get all this 'back and to the left' idea trying to support the same thing, but its the autopsy stuff thats more interesting.

As far as doctoring the autopsy photos go, well, there's talk of that....and of course people's injuries to heads etc are covered up and reconstructed before burial all the time, and the chap who its claimed did this on kennedys body and was later shot himself... his brother is clearly photographed with Jack Ruby in his club too. There are all sorts of odd little connections.

God knows, but its all interesting.

zanes

Read the Warren Commission Report.

Frank the tank

It was a bit convenient that Jack Ruby was allowed to get close enough to kill LHO. It neggated the need of a trial and and real dirt digging could be avoided.

TuckerUK

Firstly, the JFK film is a work of fiction, and Stone even mentioned that when it was first shown and criticised. It's such as crying shame that people take it as being based on fact.

Hundreds off people in the street pointed to the book depository window shouting 'there he is'. The rifle used was well known as being the quickest bolt action rifle ever made (quicker even than the famed Lee-Enfield). And any rifle shooter worth his salt (let alone a US Marine - famed for their accurate long range shooting) would easily pull off those shots on a slowly moving vehicle at that (relatively) close range. Anyone who has ever heard gunfire for real, and in a built up area, will know how hard is it to trace the source, and that's the grassy knoll theory gone.

Of course, since the silly film, recent sound analysis has proved (not that it needed proving really) that there was only one shooter.

EKE_38BPM

TuckerUK wrote:

Of course, since the silly film, recent sound analysis has proved (not that it needed proving really) that there was only one shooter.

I don't care, but, just to play devil's advocate: silencer?

raymondo60

The Comedian killed Kennedy; he's clearly shown doing it in the title sequence of "Watchmen" - I always knew it.

Wheelspinner

EKE_38BPM wrote:

TuckerUK wrote:

Of course, since the silly film, recent sound analysis has proved (not that it needed proving really) that there was only one shooter.

I don't care, but, just to play devil's advocate: silencer?

Nah. Silencers ruin accuracy. Don't believe the movies. With a silencer on, the shooter would have been lucky to hit the car, let alone JFK.

Pseudonym

Wheelspinner wrote:

Nah. Silencers ruin accuracy. Don't believe the movies. With a silencer on, the shooter would have been lucky to hit the car, let alone JFK.

depends on the type of silencer and whether the shooter is clever enough to compensate for the altered trajectory. You would think that if he had planned to use a suppressor, he would have practised with it first and adjusting his tele-sight and ammo choice accordingly...

mfin

Wheelspinner wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

TuckerUK wrote:

Of course, since the silly film, recent sound analysis has proved (not that it needed proving really) that there was only one shooter.

I don't care, but, just to play devil's advocate: silencer?

Nah. Silencers ruin accuracy. Don't believe the movies. With a silencer on, the shooter would have been lucky to hit the car, let alone JFK.

Totally true it affects accuracy, and in the 60s this would have been more true as technology/engineering has come a long way since.

There is of course the idea of the triangulation crossfire stuff, including shots from the Daltex building, which are theoried to be silencered shots. What is interesting is the only 'major criminal' arrested that day was Eugene Hale Brading, who was arrested on the 3rd Floor of the Daltex building, he'd been arrested some 30 or 40 times before, and he was supposed to have met with Jack Ruby of all people the night before the shooting.

What is also very interesting.... if you watch a slowmo of the Zapruder film, and see the moment Kennedy reaches for his throat etc on the first supposed 'hit', look at the other people in the car, no-one really makes a reaction to a noise. BUT... couple of seconds later, the head shot, look at the flinch and ducking as if a massive noise had happened, even from the people in the front, who cant see Kennedy, its the noise they react to.... so why the massive difference to reaction to the noise from one bullet to the next?? It would seem one shot was a LOT LOT louder than the other. Why would that be if they were from the same gun?

Worth watching with that in mind for anyone that's interested?