Racing and scalping versus fat burning

Yorkshire_Lee

Hello all.

As I need to shift a few unwanted pounds after the holidays, how do I go about keeping my rate in the 'fat-burning' zone (on the road) without the threat of being scalped?

Also - as I struggle to eat even one weetabix in a morning (simply cannot get food down early), what options do I have for getting good calories down early in the morning?

Any tips would be appreciated.

Mr Plum

Big bowl of cornflakes followed by a can of MTFU to keep the pace hard and fast :twisted:

tomq

According to http://www.bikeradar.com/road/fitness/a ... sics-28838 most effective fat burning is high intensity interval training.
So be scalped when resting but then in your next burst take the scalp back again!

sheep_go_baa

tomq wrote:

According to http://www.bikeradar.com/road/fitness/a ... sics-28838 most effective fat burning is high intensity interval training.
So be scalped when resting but then in your next burst take the scalp back again!

Don't forget to push them over as you go past - that way they won't scalp you again during the next rest period

aripallaris

fat burning zones at 50-65% max heart rate... that way your targeting fat cells for energy. if your diet is carb heavy, which is what is required for most long distance endurance stuff like cycling, you need to cut this down and up your protein. more protein than carbs.

yes, u will feel less energetic, but fewer carbs will also help the body utilise fats as its main source of energy. working at higher intensities does burn calories but doesnt utilise fats as its main source. saying that, higher intensities are good for your heart so you should do a few sprints/ high intensity in between!

reformedfatty

Of course, racing and scalping is more fun, which means you do it more = more exercise = more fat burning.

I lost my weight by doing stuff that was fun, with an eye on calorie consumption. Heart rate zones did enter into it very briefly but running with an eye on a heart rate number was just no fun at all so I ditched it and took the free lactic threshold training that comes with a higher workrate.

Foxtrot Oscar

Fat burning zone - I've heard of it, but I think it's overblown. All exercise burns fat, just take it how you like at the time if you're commuting imo.

Mike Healey

As you up the tempo, you switch from almost purely fat burning, to amix of carbs and fat. However, as another forumer has indicated, you increase the total amount of fat burnt, even tho' it is proportionately less

hstiles

I've started knocking up my own power shakes in the morning. Semi skimmed or skimmed milk, couple of table spoons of plain yoghurt, banana and/or handful of blueberries or other soft fruit, handful of porridge oats and if you want to bung in something calorific, couple of teaspoons of nesquick or drinking chocolate. Pretty cheap and very effective.

Yorkshire_Lee

Mike Healey wrote:

As you up the tempo, you switch from almost purely fat burning, to amix of carbs and fat. However, as another forumer has indicated, you increase the total amount of fat burnt, even tho' it is proportionately less

Good point. Therein lies the problem though because if you lower your carbs and up the protein (as another poster mentioned), intense exercise will strip your glycogen stores as rather than burning fat.

Overall, I think it is best to not risk the scalping and just avoid the curries and beer. I only asked because I recently bought a polar computer with my new Cube Attempt which I might add seems worthy of its best sub £1k bike award tag so far (IMO). I love it!

HamishD

Yorkshire_Lee wrote:

Mike Healey wrote:

As you up the tempo, you switch from almost purely fat burning, to amix of carbs and fat. However, as another forumer has indicated, you increase the total amount of fat burnt, even tho' it is proportionately less

Good point. Therein lies the problem though because if you lower your carbs and up the protein (as another poster mentioned), intense exercise will strip your glycogen stores as rather than burning fat.

Overall, I think it is best to not risk the scalping and just avoid the curries and beer. I only asked because I recently bought a polar computer with my new Cube Attempt which I might add seems worthy of its best sub £1k bike award tag so far (IMO). I love it!

Agree with previous posters - dose of MTFU required. Glad you are loving your new bike though! Now, get out and ride it . . .

AidanR

"Fat burning" low intensity stuff is fine, but works best if you're in the saddle for hours at a time - the ratio of fat to total calories burnt increases the longer you exercise for.

If your rides are shorter, then intervals are best for fat burning, especially if you want to preserve or gain muscle mass. So go for scalps, sprint away from the lights and generally have some fun.

As for diet, don't fall into the trap of "fuelling" your riding with carbs if you're trying to lose weight. Stay away from processed foods and sugar (including some fruits), and try and get plenty of good quality fats (not cheap vegetable oils!), protein and vegetables.

And don't worry about not eating before your ride - training fasted is actually pretty beneficial. Just make sure you have something after your ride.

The Rookie

MTFU - just find the fastest you can ride at a consistent pace to finish your commute just about F'ed, easy way to choose your pace!

Never train fasted to loose weight, however little you eat for breakfast it kick starts your metabolism out of the 'go slow' mode for sleep meaning you burn more calories whether you excercise or not.

Simon

AidanR

Sorry, but I believe you're wrong.

1) If you're trying to lose weight riding at a consistently high pace isn't a great idea, as although it burns plenty of calories, a relatively small amount of these are from fat and the extra calories burnt will increase hunger and encourage overeating.

2) Training fasted is effective. Your metabolism doesn't need "kick starting" in the morning by eating. The requirement for breakfast first thing in the morning is a fallacy supported by causally dubious studies funded by Kelloggs.

dUNC

At the risk of sounding a bit "in<out" and showing a total lack of knowledge when it comes to physiology, I've never quite understood the fat burning zone thing so can someone clear it up for me?

The way I saw it was that your body always needs fuel, if it's got readily available fuel (glycogen? I'll call it that for now accepting I may be totally wrong!) then it will use that, otherwise it will use fat. Now ye, I get that certain activities and intensities will make your body prefer one over the other, but fuel's fuel right (you're not going to die because your short on one but plenty of the other right?!).

So I figure that that if you do a hard and fast ride and burn X calories of your glycogen then when you eat you're replacing those X calories of glycogen before your body does anything else (like storing it as fat). Further, I thought that when back at rest (low intensity!) your body would prefer to burn fat given that it's low on glycogen. So whilst the ride itself might not burn as much fat, post-ride your body is using fat whilst replacing glycogen stores.

Or put another way, if you ride in the fat loss zone, and you burn Y calories of fat, then when you're resting your body hasn't used much glycogen so when you're eating it's replacing the Y calories of fat? Or I guess that's the point, it's burnt the Y calories, but you eat less than what you've used so it's not replacing it?

I guess my summary would be that if you're body isn't using the energy it's storing it as fat, so if you burn the energy before it's stored as fat versus burning the fat and replacing it with energy then you're in sorta the same place? Now that I've written it it doesn't make sense, so if someone could give me the vital nugget of information I'm missing (I'm guessing there's something between fat and glycogen) that would be awesome!

That said, I always think that not riding at full tilt is cheating so could never stay in the zone anyway!

The Rookie

AidanR wrote:

1) If you're trying to lose weight riding at a consistently high pace isn't a great idea, as although it burns plenty of calories, a relatively small amount of these are from fat and the extra calories burnt will increase hunger and encourage overeating.

So don't eat more! Most commutes are not long enough of themselves to get into direct from fat energy usage - it takes longer than 45 minutes of continuous excercise, often it doesn't start for 3+hours depending on short term energy reserves.

AidanR wrote:

2) Training fasted is effective. Your metabolism doesn't need "kick starting" in the morning by eating. The requirement for breakfast first thing in the morning is a fallacy supported by causally dubious studies funded by Kelloggs.

Oh please - take your tinfoil hat off and listen to reason, loads of studies (many about dieting) support the fact that weight loss improves (all else being equal such as total calorie intake/day) if you eat breakfast.

Simon

AidanR

@dUNC

That depends on what you're eating. If you eat a bunch of sugar, your body will use that to replace the glycogen stores rather than converting body fat.

@The Beginner

Yes, ideally don't eat more but people aren't great at controlling their food intake. I'm not suggesting being in the "fat burning zone" but in doing intervals by sprinting away from traffic lights etc. which has been shown to be effective in weight loss.

And yes, I know there are studies showing that breakfast aids weight loss, but most are correlation studies. If people have been told that healthy eating includes eating a good breakfast, then oddly those who eat breakfast tend to be healthier than those who don't. As for shiny metal hats, the funding of research has pretty massive implications for its authenticity and should always be taken into account.

But that's not really the point here - what I disagree with is your assertion that you should never train fasted and that the metabolism needs "kick starting" in the morning by eating before exercise.

turnerjohn

Yorkshire_Lee wrote:

As I need to shift a few unwanted pounds - don't force yourself to eat in that case !.

can be counterproductive as well as that food has a tendency to come back up again !

It all depends on the length of your commute as loads have already said. If its short your far far better to go as hard as you can. The number of calories your burn will be higher, your also do your body more good as it will adjust to riding harder and therefore longer rides will be easier.
If youve eaten properly the night before your body will be fine in the morning (for a short commute at least) just remember to drink enough to keep hydrated; body must be hydrated to burn fat. Excerise increases your metabolisum and muscles ability to obsorb carbs in the form of glyciogen (primary fuel) so taking food after your ride is far more beneficial...after your ride your body will also be burning up more calories for a time after.
Sooooo save breakfast for when you get in, drink plenty (take energy drinks on longer rides) and ride your bike like you stole it

The Rookie

AidanR wrote:

And yes, I know there are studies showing that breakfast aids weight loss, but most are correlation studies. If people have been told that healthy eating includes eating a good breakfast, then oddly those who eat breakfast tend to be healthier than those who don't. .

Don't worry, I always digest many such surveys with a large dose of a cyncism pill, but there are some (10% ish) that are properly performed with a control group that show with good statistical relevance an improvement in weight loss where breakfast is eaten versus without it, I will concede that without going 'mental' no such survey is 100% perfect as the subjects have a daily life to live, but its still pretty certain.

Simon

reformedfatty

To combat the hunger / overeating aspect of higher intensity workout I find protein shakes invaluable. Skimmed milk, protein shake = ~125 calories and will leave you feeling full for hours afterwards as well as providing the all important recovery.

AidanR

I'm not suggesting skipping breakfast, just having it after the ride. But there is a body of evidence suggesting that intermittent fasting has benefits such as preserving muscle mass in individuals who are losing weight: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/health-b ... t-fasting/

Fasting can take the form of periodic 24 hours fasts, or, quite commonly, a daily restricted eating window of typically 8 hours, usually involving not eating before midday or after 8pm. Studies have indicated that this can aid weight loss compared to eating the same amount of food over a longer period during the day - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2141 ... t=Abstract.

I will add the caveat that this is hard to achieve on a carbohydrate-rich diet as carbs affect blood sugar levels much more markedly than other macronutrients, leading to peaks and troughs. This is why 6 small meals a day are often recommended - to flatten out blood sugar levels. However, if you don't "fuel" with carbs then your blood sugar tends to take care of itself.

Yorkshire_Lee

Aidan - you make a lot of sense.

High intensity on low carbs will burn glycogen over fat which is hard for the body to burn. High intensity alone will also only increase capacity (which is good) but won't lean you down as the fat isn't burned as readily.

Having trained for martial arts during a significant part of my life, I found that a good protein supplement can really increase power too (in my case Maximuscle Cyclone - superb stuff).

Experts say that 40% of your daily calorie intake should come from brekkie! I also agree that 6 meals is a good idea however my penchant for beer lets me down.

As for 'MTFU' - more like 'WTF' as in WTF kind of thing to say is that? And to me, a Yorkshireman in fact. It's grim up North lads don't forget.

cloggsy

I normally take a 'one a day multi-vitamin' and drink a Whey Protein shake (made with 250 ml of Skimmed Milk,) before I leave on my commute. This normally tides me over until lunch. I drink plenty of water through the morning on arrival too (4 or 5 750ml glasses!)

It works for me

Applespider

Exercising fasted and having breakfast don't have to be mutually exclusive.

I cycle to work fasted and then have breakfast when I arrive. And I've lost more fat doing that than doing evening spin classes over the winter.

The studies around eating breakfast are mostly saying that if you don't eat breakfast, you tend to pick at more throughout the day and overeat at lunchtime. Having breakfast an hour after you get up rather than 10 minutes later isn't the same as skipping it.