What to do if nearly killed?

superkenners

I was cycling down from Woodford, East London after a run up to Epping this morning in the cycle lane running at a decent clip when a skip lorry decided to carve me up. I instinctively swerved to avoid contact and fortunately there was a dip in the pavement at that point so I flew up onto the pavement as the lorry sped off. After about 5,000 miles cycling round London this was the closest and by far the scariest call I've had, there was literally nowhere for me to go. Any other bit of curb and I'd have been under the wheels and can only be thankful it happened at that precise spot where there was an exit.

I caught up with him at the lights to vent my annoyance, his response when I asked "did you not see me there" was "of course i did", and a large smirk/expletives.

I have a witness to this all and a blurry photo of the truck with registration. The police station seemed not bothered though trying to fob me off with a traffic report, but I am sure this is a criminal offence if intent is there.

Does anyone have any experience or success in following up on these matters? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

The Rookie

I thought the Met Police had a webpage specifically for reporting incidents like this, they promise to take action (probably just a stern letter). Unfourtunately its your word versus his.

To be honest your best recourse is probably to phone the company owning the lorry, stay really calm and try and arrange a meeting to tell them your concersn over this drivers behaviour.

Simon

kurako

This one.

https://secure.met.police.uk/roadsafelondon/

The road traffic unit visits companies to offer training and advice. Maybe some good comes of it. Maybe the guy gets a bollocking off his boss. Maybe he thinks about what he did and realises he's was a tw*t and feels bad enough to change his ways. If not, maybe he's a sociopath and you're just bloody lucky.

woodford2barbican

Report it - be a nuisance.

jeremyrundle

If you have a vid then you have a case, I have had THREE drivers charged despite initial "not possible to charge" from Police, C&%P, push it.

wgwarburton

Hi,
Stay out of the cycle lane and give trucks a wide berth. Try to avoid situations where you don't have an escape route.

Getting the driver done might help a bit but there will always be another one.

Cheers,
W.

spen666

Superkenners wrote:

I was cycling down from Woodford, East London after a run up to Epping this morning in the cycle lane running at a decent clip when a skip lorry decided to carve me up. I instinctively swerved to avoid contact and fortunately there was a dip in the pavement at that point so I flew up onto the pavement as the lorry sped off. After about 5,000 miles cycling round London this was the closest and by far the scariest call I've had, there was literally nowhere for me to go. Any other bit of curb and I'd have been under the wheels and can only be thankful it happened at that precise spot where there was an exit.

I caught up with him at the lights to vent my annoyance, his response when I asked "did you not see me there" was "of course i did", and a large smirk/expletives.

I have a witness to this all and a blurry photo of the truck with registration. The police station seemed not bothered though trying to fob me off with a traffic report, but I am sure this is a criminal offence if intent is there.

Does anyone have any experience or success in following up on these matters? Any thoughts greatly appreciated.

superkenners

Was wondering what can a driver actually be charged with for an offence like this, in my mind intent was clearly there and my witness was pretty shocked by what he saw too.

I would have thought this was a criminal offence, if you can prove intent in court at least, rather than a civil offence?

spen666

So, how are you going to prove intent & intent to do what?

BTW traffic offences are still criminal offences

superkenners

The driver's reaction when I spoke with him was clearly aggressive "yes, of course I saw you" and he veered into the cycle lane on a clear road, so on that level there is intent.

As I have a witness there is more to it than my word against yours. I would have thought that the purpose of a court is to determine whether or not there is within reasonable doubt of 'intent' in the drivers actions and act accordingly if it decides there is.

But the bloke in the Police station was not fussed either way.

spen666

Superkenners wrote:

The driver's reaction when I spoke with him was clearly aggressive "yes, of course I saw you" and he veered into the cycle lane on a clear road, so on that level there is intent.

As I have a witness there is more to it than my word against yours. I would have thought that the purpose of a court is to determine whether or not there is within reasonable doubt of 'intent' in the drivers actions and act accordingly if it decides there is.

But the bloke in the Police station was not fussed either way.

I repeat my questions

1. Intent to do what? There is no offence in English law of having intent. What offence are you wanting him prosected for?

2. How are you going to prove intent? Yes he may admit to having seen you, but so what? He could have been swerving as he tried to swat a wasp or something equally silly.

You seem fixated on the "intent" but you do not explain intent to do what?

I have an intent to reply to your post? Does that mean I should be prosecuted?

superkenners

Intent to cause me harm quite simply

I think the police use intent to lock up those suspected terrorists that never get charged

spen666

Superkenners wrote:

Intent to cause me harm quite simply

I think the police use intent to lock up those suspected terrorists that never get charged

There is no offence of intent to cause harm


Re Terroists, the police arrest under the powers that exist- not random non offences that you seem to think should exist.

superkenners

So are you saying it is perfectly legal to try and run cyclists over as long as you fail in your objective?

spen666

Superkenners wrote:

So are you saying it is perfectly legal to try and run cyclists over as long as you fail in your objective?

Yes, its very clear I have repeatedly said that haven't I?


Alternatively, you may if see that I have not expressed any comment on what took place, other than to ask what offence you are wanting the driver done for.

The answer seems to be you want him dealt with for an offence that does not exist

bails87

Spen, what do you think he could be charged with, if the driver aimed his truck at the OP?

will3

Superkenners wrote:

So are you saying it is perfectly legal to try and run cyclists over as long as you fail in your objective?

No he's saying that he knows more about the law than you do.



you could go home, say a prayer of thanks to whatever, put it behind you, thank your lucky stars etc, move on and be happy.

superkenners

That was kind of my question, to me it seems like an offence but I am not a legal professional hence the post - if I knew what offence it was I wouldn't be asking the guys in the forum.

I'm not just having a rant (at least not entirely). I presumed that someone out there might have had a similar experience that I could learn from.

Thanks very much for the Met link by the way Kurako, I have filed there.

bearfraser

WTF :- isnt it an attempt to harm with a deadly weapon !!

andrewlwood

There IS an offence of driving without due care and attention - you don't need to actually hit anyone to be convicted of that (I know, it happened to me as a teenager - I was caught by the fuzz slowing down to read my map on a motorway. No-one else around, not even a near-miss). I don't know what would be required to prosecute though - whether a witness would be sufficient?

rudderboy

Is "attempted murder" a crime of intent, ie. intending to murder without actually managing to commit murder?
not that it's applicable here, but just asking the question.....?

dcurzon

Assault
(source: http://sixthformlaw.info/03_dictionary/dict_a.htm )

From the following definitions it can be establish that there must be an act (noting DPP v Santa-Bermudez (2003) DC) accompanied by a hostile intent calculated to cause apprehension in the mind of the victim. Where the hostile intent is not present, there will be no assault R v Lamb [1967] CA unless it is proved that the alleged assailant was reckless as to whether the complainant would apprehend immediate and unlawful violence.

---

James J in Fagan v Commissioner of Metropolitan Police[1968] DC
Per curiam
Definition of assault:

"An assault is any act which intentionally - or possibly recklessly - causes another person to apprehend immediate and unlawful personal violence."

---

Lord Lane in Attorney General's Reference (No 6 of 1980) (1981) CA

Per curiam
Definition of assault

"... the actual intended use of unlawful force to another person without his consent, or any other lawful excuse."

---

Goff LJ in Collins v Wilcock (1984) QBD:

"An assault is an act which causes another person to apprehend the infliction of immediate, unlawful, force on his person; a battery is the actual infliction of unlawful force on another person ... any touching of another person, however slight, may amount to battery."

---

Lord Slynn in R v Brown (1993) HL
Definition of assault:


"At common law, an assault is an act by which a person intentionally or recklessly causes another to apprehend immediate and unlawful personal violence and a battery is an act by which a person intentionally or recklessly inflicts personal violence upon another. However, the term 'assault,' is now, in both ordinary legal usage and in statutes, regularly used to cover both assault and battery."




Or maybe you shoulda just smashed him in.

bails87

"Assault with a deadly weapon" isn't an offence here.

And assault doesn't have to involve actual contact does it?

Most likely thing you could go for is careless driving.

dcurzon

tell the police you wish to report an Assault.

no need to mention 'deadly weapon' or anything else, you are reporting an assault. An assault is a threat or action by one person to another that causes fear of injury.

you have a witness. you have the reg number of the vehicle and therefore the police are able to get the driver details.

Even if it isn't FULLY followed through to the courts, the police will have to take it more seriously than if you walk in there saying 'some geeza tried to run me off the road blah blah ..."

Initialised

Might be more effective taking it to his boss rather than the police.