My next goal, 24mph, 7% increase in gear ratio or 7% increas
weii
Posts: 23
Hi,
I read some of the theory about slow/fast muscles, power per revolution and etc. However reality is different to the math and especially if you are maxed out and still trying to improve. I may be a bit pedantic about the numbers, but I suppose this question can be asked for any small increase in speed, as long as we are not taking the extreme of very high gear at 60rpm or very low gear at 90rpm.
Here is the question, say if I can do a steady 22mph (rounded to nearest integer over 10 miles) on a 98 gear ratio (52/14) and 75rpm, what would be the best (efficient for training purpose?) way to achieve 24mph? In theory I can do either.
1. 7% increase in gear, 105 gear ratio (52/13) at 75rpm.
2. 7% increase in rpm, 98 gear ratio (52/14) at 80rpm.
3. or something else different, tbh, 80rpm is about the max i can do the flat.
I am all maxed out at 22mph. I know that pros can easily do a 30mph on a 10 miles run, so maybe 24mph is not that much to ask for. But some advice would be nice, i've been trying for a few weeks now.
A bit of background, I’ve been commuting 12 miles everyday for about one and a half years. When I started it took me 1 hours (~10mph) on a hybrid to now taking 35 mins (~19mph) on a road bike (no areo bars+panniers), ofc I had to take account of the traffic lights and roundabouts and so the steady speed is somewhat higher. In a 10 miles stretch of the A4 where it is nice and flat I can pretty much do a 22 mph steady. However I seem to be stuck at 22mph for a while now, barring getting a proper race bike with areo bars, skin suits and removing the pannier. I really would like to do a 24mph average, hence some advice please.
I read some of the theory about slow/fast muscles, power per revolution and etc. However reality is different to the math and especially if you are maxed out and still trying to improve. I may be a bit pedantic about the numbers, but I suppose this question can be asked for any small increase in speed, as long as we are not taking the extreme of very high gear at 60rpm or very low gear at 90rpm.
Here is the question, say if I can do a steady 22mph (rounded to nearest integer over 10 miles) on a 98 gear ratio (52/14) and 75rpm, what would be the best (efficient for training purpose?) way to achieve 24mph? In theory I can do either.
1. 7% increase in gear, 105 gear ratio (52/13) at 75rpm.
2. 7% increase in rpm, 98 gear ratio (52/14) at 80rpm.
3. or something else different, tbh, 80rpm is about the max i can do the flat.
I am all maxed out at 22mph. I know that pros can easily do a 30mph on a 10 miles run, so maybe 24mph is not that much to ask for. But some advice would be nice, i've been trying for a few weeks now.
A bit of background, I’ve been commuting 12 miles everyday for about one and a half years. When I started it took me 1 hours (~10mph) on a hybrid to now taking 35 mins (~19mph) on a road bike (no areo bars+panniers), ofc I had to take account of the traffic lights and roundabouts and so the steady speed is somewhat higher. In a 10 miles stretch of the A4 where it is nice and flat I can pretty much do a 22 mph steady. However I seem to be stuck at 22mph for a while now, barring getting a proper race bike with areo bars, skin suits and removing the pannier. I really would like to do a 24mph average, hence some advice please.
0
Comments
-
I don't think there's any mystery - just get fitter and push the pedals harder...0
-
+1
Or just fit aero bars to the existing bike - I reckon that'll take you up to 23mph anyway.0 -
Why make things so complicated, and worry about the science behind pedaling?
Just pop it up a gear and get going. If you can't handle it first time, second time will be easier, 3rd time even easier....... so on and so forth.0 -
Select whatever gear feels the most comfortable at the speed you are travelling. That is all.0
-
the math
The Maths !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!0 -
Like the others have said dont worry about the science of it get out there and pedal harder!
I'd like to average 24mph on my local 10mile TT course and that is what I'm also working towards at the moment. Last year my first attempt saw me at 27:30ish I think it was and by the end of last year I had done a 26:01. This year I've only been out once and did a 26:16 :evil: tho in my defense they had literally resurfaced part of the course the same day. Plenty more to be had from fitness and stronger legs yet, I like you just need to get out and speed train more.
Aero bars will help like someone mentioned but I'm doing it on my road bike just as is with its un-aero saddlebag and pump mounted on the frame with two cages etc. When I get down to sub 25mins is when I will allow myself to start going more aero. Even then there is more fitness and stronger legs to be had
0 -
Eh :?: :? :?:
Nowt like making something simple sound ridiculously complicated.More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:Eh :?: :? :?:
Nowt like making something simple sound ridiculously complicated.
That's what I thought.
Perhaps the OP should just try pressing the pedals harder?0 -
increase your cadence to 85 to 90 at least, especially in the big gears. with regards to the slow or fast twitch muscles, you're a cyclist so most of your muscles are going to be slow twitch because you're using then for endurance instead of short high intensity bursts. try some high intensity interval training on them pins0
-
Lets say you achieved 22mph in ideal conditions then to achieve 24mph in the same conditions is an increase in performance of 9%. But when you go faster the air resistance has an increased effect so the net result is you would need to be a lot stronger by more than 9%. This would take some time to achieve with training. It is possible to achieve with aids as mentioned and also body position. So check that out. I think that overcoming air resistance uses at least 70% of your effort, may be more. Chris Boardman was the first person I believe to show the way to ride a bike fast. Flat back and tri-bars
When you've noted that tour riders get to ride at 30mph........is that on a TT bike?. I think so.
Or the conditions favoured it.
I think you're doing quite well but +9% increase in performance is going to take some doing.
You need a good training schedule to achieve that in the shortest possible time....................................................................................................
If you want to be a strong rider you have to do strong things.
However if you train like a cart horse you'll race like one.0 -
if you have money available, get a VO2 assessment. You will be told what is realistic with your lung capacity. A short term fix to increase it would be to do the above HIT work, this would increase your endurance a little. Spinning classes would blow them legs apart.0
-
sorry forgot to say the obvious, how much do you weigh and how much does your bike weigh? Extra weight equals more energy needed to get your bike moving over a lighter bike/rider. All these things add up0
-
Are you trying to train for proper time trialling over a 10 mile distance or to get faster over that distance while out on your bike ?
Going from 22mph to 24mph average will take some work, its not just a case of using maths to work out gearing and the like as your legs and lungs will take time to be able to achieve this.
You are going to need to spend more time in the higher heart rate zones and practice going flat out over that distance to improve. Perhaps add in some interval work.
A few weeks isn't going to produce results though, it took you 18 months to increase your average commute !
I think you will find benefits from getting more aero and removing the pannier. You can also get cheap clip on bars that could help.
There is a thread where people rate their time trial positions.
You may be able to take something away from that thread about positioning on the bike.0 -
Its taken me 2 1/2 years to get from 23mph average over 10 miles to over 27mph this season.0
-
I can only dream of a road long and flat enough to get to 22mph!
Seriously, there's one or two stretches of a hundred feet or so, but the rest is hilly up/hilly down
Great for the thighs & heart, but makes recovery runs painful and keeps my overall mileage down
:-)
moan over!0 -
Can't believe I just read this whole thread!
What was it someone said on another TT thread . . .
PLF0 -
If you take out all of the "math" then the OP is actually asking a pretty simple and relevant question - what's the most efficient way to go faster: shift up a gear, or pedal faster in the same gear?
Personally, I'd concentrate on the latter for the moment, as 75rpm is a relatively low cadence, and it would be a useful skill to be able to sustain a higher rpm (say 90 or thereabouts).0 -
By way of comparison, a good 14-15 YO should be aiming at 25mph+ for a 10mile TT. On "Youth A" gearing. That's 46-14 top, or about an 87" gear.jlgt wrote:Personally, I'd concentrate on the latter for the moment, as 75rpm is a relatively low cadence, and it would be a useful skill to be able to sustain a higher rpm (say 90 or thereabouts).
A proper fast fixie/ss rider would be spinning a lot faster than that.
http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html
You could google why youth / junior riders have gear restrictions.
But don't try to go straight up to 100rpm. Try 80rpm, or one gear lower for a bit.0 -
Definitely focus on pedalling faster than trying to push a higher gear. Pedalling at higher cadences is generally more efficient and doesn't fatigue the muscles as quickly. It's a common misconception from beginnners that they are pedalling too quick, whereas the reality is that they are grinding along at 60rpm and see that fitting a bigger gear is the only way to go faster. Finally, a lower gear will not put as much pressure on joints and ligaments - most beginners haven't developed the musculature & strength to sustain high workloads - it's not uncommon for them to experience chronic overuse conditions as a consequence.Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..0
-
OP - For the next couple of months find yourself a nice flat rd, get up to 30mph and try and keep it there for as long as you can. Do this over and over and somewhere down the line you'll end up getting your 2mph extra av. Im 7.5% sure of this.0
-
ride slower before the A road stretch, especially when start stopping for lights etc
empty the pannier out of all the unneccesary weighty items, pack it all into a smaller bag and sit that on the top of the rack
give it some beans to the point where you're about to spew or pass out at the end of the stretch"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
jlgt wrote:If you take out all of the "math" then the OP is actually asking a pretty simple and relevant question - what's the most efficient way to go faster: shift up a gear, or pedal faster in the same gear?
Personally, I'd concentrate on the latter for the moment, as 75rpm is a relatively low cadence, and it would be a useful skill to be able to sustain a higher rpm (say 90 or thereabouts).
op here, first cheers all.
i should have said that at the start, that is what i mean, what is more efficient to go faster if you are going at middle cadence, go up in cadence in same gear or same cadence and up one gear.
tbh, i read that the best cadence is about 90rpm, but i cant seem to get that fast at 52/14, maybe at 52/15 or 52/16. i think i need to work on my pedal rotation as i think i am losing momentum (you know doing a not so smooth pedal action) pedalling fast. 80-85 is about the fastest i can go smoothishly. more work, going 22 to 24 seem a lot harder than going 18-20, or 20-22.
yeah. i knew it was a bad question when i asked posted it. no doubt there are books on this topic.0 -
just do some spinning classes, pure and simple training0
-
No Mr Wibble. spin classes are about the last thing on the agenda to get quicker on a road/tt bike... trust someone who does them professionally and then has to suffer the consequences in a race every week this season.... getting better in the latter but no thanks at all to the formermrwibble wrote:just do some spinning classes, pure and simple training
0 -
I'm doing my first club 25 mile TTT next weekend and I was just going to go out dig in hard chew my stem and see if I can hang on. But now you've just gone and made it all sound a bit complicated. DOH! I hate science.0
-
Tonymufc wrote:I'm doing my first club 25 mile TTT next weekend
you're gonna need a longer stem Tony, Its just over 30 miles [50K]
0 -
JGSI wrote:
No Mr Wibble. spin classes are about the last thing on the agenda to get quicker on a road/tt bike... trust someone who does them professionally and then has to suffer the consequences in a race every week this season.... getting better in the latter but no thanks at all to the formermrwibble wrote:just do some spinning classes, pure and simple training
Interesting, can you expand on the above? I have been going to spinning classes for the last few years, only once a week but then road riding when I can. I don't race. I thought the classes would help with my general cycling fitness. I use an HR monitor and am pretty sure I have it set up well and ride to the correct levels etc. Is it that the classes are too short compared to riding distances on the road?0 -
weii wrote:Hi,
I read some of the theory about slow/fast muscles, power per revolution and etc. However reality is different to the math and especially if you are maxed out and still trying to improve. I may be a bit pedantic about the numbers, but I suppose this question can be asked for any small increase in speed, as long as we are not taking the extreme of very high gear at 60rpm or very low gear at 90rpm.
Here is the question, say if I can do a steady 22mph (rounded to nearest integer over 10 miles) on a 98 gear ratio (52/14) and 75rpm, what would be the best (efficient for training purpose?) way to achieve 24mph? In theory I can do either.
1. 7% increase in gear, 105 gear ratio (52/13) at 75rpm.
2. 7% increase in rpm, 98 gear ratio (52/14) at 80rpm.
3. or something else different, tbh, 80rpm is about the max i can do the flat.
I am all maxed out at 22mph. I know that pros can easily do a 30mph on a 10 miles run, so maybe 24mph is not that much to ask for. But some advice would be nice, i've been trying for a few weeks now.
A bit of background, I’ve been commuting 12 miles everyday for about one and a half years. When I started it took me 1 hours (~10mph) on a hybrid to now taking 35 mins (~19mph) on a road bike (no areo bars+panniers), ofc I had to take account of the traffic lights and roundabouts and so the steady speed is somewhat higher. In a 10 miles stretch of the A4 where it is nice and flat I can pretty much do a 22 mph steady. However I seem to be stuck at 22mph for a while now, barring getting a proper race bike with areo bars, skin suits and removing the pannier. I really would like to do a 24mph average, hence some advice please.
At 22mph on the flat:
Frontal Area 0.50 m2
Coefficient Wind Drag 0.50 dimensionless
Air Density 1.226 kg/m3
Weight 75.0 kg
Coefficient of Rolling 0.004 dimensionless
Grade 0.000 decimal
Wind Resistance 14.8 kg m/s2
Rolling Resistance 2.9 kg m/s2
Slope Force 0.0 kg m/s2
Cadence 75. rev/min
Crank Length 170. mm
Pedal Speed 1.34 m/s
Average Pedal Force 130.8 kg m/s2
Effective Pedaling Range 70. degree
Effective Pedal Force 336.4 kg m/s2
Speed 9.83 m/s
Power 174.7 watts
At 24mph
Frontal Area 0.50 m2
Coefficient Wind Drag 0.50 dimensionless
Air Density 1.226 kg/m3
Weight 75.0 kg
Coefficient of Rolling 0.004 dimensionless
Grade 0.000 decimal
Wind Resistance 17.6 kg m/s2
Rolling Resistance 2.9 kg m/s2
Slope Force 0.0 kg m/s2
Cadence 75. rev/min
Crank Length 170. mm
Pedal Speed 1.34 m/s
Average Pedal Force 165.4 kg m/s2
Effective Pedaling Range 70. degree
Effective Pedal Force 425.3 kg m/s2
Speed 10.73 m/s
Power 220.8 watts
The big problem is increasing your power by 25% not the gears or how fast you pedal
The numbers are from http://analyticcycling.com/ForcesPower_Page.html0
