Geriatric Genes

Tusher

In the light of recent stunning performances, I've been wondering if there's something else out there. Something that isn't widely know, and something there isn't a test for yet.

Now, I know that cycling is largely composed of the ability to suffer, experience, race savvy and so on, therefore a win by someone in their late 30s should be applauded, but.......but.....

Such a rider would make an excellent lab rat. By the time a test was discovered, they would have ridden off into the sunset.

Or grown a third nipple.

My apologies if this has already been covered in depth, but I have neither the time nor the will to trawl through the Clinic. And I have read that gene therapy is 'just around the corner' but I'm wondering if it's already here.

It was pre-web, but does anyone remember what the muttering classes were saying when EPO first appeared on the scene? I was completely clueless- just recall brilliant riders like Lemond not having a good year and then disappearing. I had no idea.

LangerDan

I don't believe that the recent "old codger" performances were the result of cutting edge doping. If, as a professional rider, I was going to go to the time, expense and risk of gene doping, I'd like to think I'd aim a bit higher than a stage ot the ToC.

There are plenty of "conventional weapons" which are still relatively undetectable if you have the inclination to go down that road without the risk of, as you say, that third nipple. The Mont Baldy performances didn't seem to be anything outside the range of physical achievement we've seen in the past - if they had been producing the equivalent of, say 8 Watts/kg body weight, then you'd have grounds for a whole new level of suspicion.

Ale-Jets performances in the Giro are more based on tactics. As someone (Rich?) posted in another thread, Pettachi has found chinks in Cavs sprint armour on 3 occasions - he's won by being clever, rather than being the outright fastest sprinter. (Thats not to say there aren't other factors in play also).

I wouldn't rule out the significane of increases in the ability to suffer over many years of racing. Personally, I can suffer a lot more now than I could when I was racing in my 20s - (but that could be just down to being married.)

In any case, if rumours are to be believed, when you get to a "certain age" you can ask your GP for male HRT gel and have it covered by a TUE, so you can legally take testosterone for your racing.

RichN95.

The thing with ageing, particularly for participants of endurance sports, is that the mind usually gives up long before the body. If you've been cycling full time since you were 18, by the time you get to 35 the enthusiasm tends to start dying. The constant travelling, the crashes, the injuries, the rubbish hotels, not seeing your kids - eventually you get to the stage where you say "I'm too old for this sh!t".

But some don't get to that point - riders like Jens Voigt who somehow seems to have the same enthusiasm as a kid who's just got his first bike. Then there's Chris Horner...

Horner basically missed his career. He didn't turn pro until he was 24 and then was at FdJ from 97-99, when EPO use was rampant and couldn't be competitive, so he spent the next five years as a US pro. He eventually got another chance in Europe at the age of 33. So at an age when most riders are considering retirement, he had far less physical wear and tear and the mentality of a neo-pro. His longevity shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

Tusher

Robbie McEwan, who started racing later than most (but not Horner) had a theory that the average pro has 16 years of competitive racing in them. Start at 18 and you're wrecked by 34, start at 20 and you're still flying at 36.

Jens isn't human, so he doesn't count.

P_Tucker

LangerDan wrote:

I don't believe that the recent "old codger" performances were the result of cutting edge doping. If, as a professional rider, I was going to go to the time, expense and risk of gene doping, I'd like to think I'd aim a bit higher than a stage ot the ToC.

Well, not everyone thinks like that. Linford Christie, after having won an olympic gold medal lets not forget, took nandralone at the age of 39. Dan Staite took EPO to finish second in a UK amateur race. Actually, that words "like that" in my opening sentence weren't really necessary.

Tusher

But would an unscrupulous pharmacist/researcher/medic/drug dealer give gene therapy/new wonderdrug to a rider initially free of charge?

Or I am being too dark?

iainf72

Tusher wrote:

But would an unscrupulous pharmacist/researcher/medic/drug dealer give gene therapy/new wonderdrug to a rider initially free of charge?

Or I am being too dark?

I doubt it. It's not like some kind of misguided just-say-no campaign where your first hit of EPO or whatever is free. These guys will go looking for it and will pay - No need to let them sample the warez. You also want to be discrete and learn to trust no one.

RichN95.

Tusher wrote:

But would an unscrupulous pharmacist/researcher/medic/drug dealer give gene therapy/new wonderdrug to a rider initially free of charge?

Or I am being too dark?

It's not unknown for the said unscrupulous dealers to sell something completely bogus. Back in about 2000, Dario Frigo was arrested and found to have a flask marked 'Hemassist'*. He was sacked by his team and suspended. When the authorities tested it, it was bog standard saline solution. I doubt he's the only who's been duped (there was also a story about Mancebo's connection with Puerto).

*A PFC based blood substitute, which hasn't been produced since 1998.

LangerDan

P_Tucker wrote:

LangerDan wrote:

I don't believe that the recent "old codger" performances were the result of cutting edge doping. If, as a professional rider, I was going to go to the time, expense and risk of gene doping, I'd like to think I'd aim a bit higher than a stage ot the ToC.

Well, not everyone thinks like that. Linford Christie, after having won an olympic gold medal lets not forget, took nandralone at the age of 39. Dan Staite took EPO to finish second in a UK amateur race. Actually, that words "like that" in my opening sentence weren't really necessary.

My point was, given the undeniable risks with phannying around with your genetic make-up - which have to be orders of magnitude greater than with nandralone or EPO or keeping your blood in the fridge next to the coleslaw - would you take that potentially life-threatening treatment for the ToC? The TdF, the Olympics or the Worlds, perhaps, but you'd need to be in a bad place to try this just so you could be first to the top of Mount Baldy.

Even Ricco might think twice about gene doping. But then again......

P_Tucker

LangerDan wrote:

My point was, given the undeniable risks with phannying around with your genetic make-up - which have to be orders of magnitude greater than with nandralone or EPO or keeping your blood in the fridge next to the coleslaw - would you take that potentially life-threatening treatment for the ToC? The TdF, the Olympics or the Worlds, perhaps, but you'd need to be in a bad place to try this just so you could be first to the top of Mount Baldy.

Even Ricco might think twice about gene doping. But then again......

Don't know if I would - perhaps. But I do know that a while back someone did a study, anonymously asking olympic hopefuls if they would take a drug that guaranteed two things:

1. a gold medal
2. death within 5 years

The response was an overwhelming yes. Not everyone thinks like you do, even regarding 3rd Tier pro events.

Tusher

The 4th Grand Tour.











I'll get my coat.

RichN95.

P_Tucker wrote:

Don't know if I would - perhaps. But I do know that a while back someone did a study, anonymously asking olympic hopefuls if they would take a drug that guaranteed two things:

1. a gold medal
2. death within 5 years

The response was an overwhelming yes. Not everyone thinks like you do, even regarding 3rd Tier pro events.

I wouldn't take that too seriously. It's one thing to say something to an interviewer and another think completely to actually do it. People tend to tell the interviewer what they think they want to hear. (At the last General Election I told campaigners from three different parties that I was voting for them).