Cycling Weeklys angry response to Contadors win (TT Spoiler)

2

Comments

  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    RowCycle wrote:
    As someone fairly new to this cycling malarkey (I was gripped by the last 2 TdFs) I find it ridiculous that this issue still hasn't been sorted after nearly a year with the next TdF just around the corner.

    It really is ridiculous!

    In these situations, it's often wise to consider exactly who benefits from dragging it out. The answer is of course lawyers. Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

    3763629208_c741d0f9bb.jpg
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    P_Tucker wrote:
    RowCycle wrote:
    As someone fairly new to this cycling malarkey (I was gripped by the last 2 TdFs) I find it ridiculous that this issue still hasn't been sorted after nearly a year with the next TdF just around the corner.

    It really is ridiculous!

    In these situations, it's often wise to consider exactly who benefits from dragging it out. The answer is of course lawyers. Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

    3763629208_c741d0f9bb.jpg

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0CBgQtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D0u9JAt6gFqM&ei=QpDjTb6WEYTPhAe574jzBw&usg=AFQjCNEU8srqBplNyakqXEUmuv1C65yEGA
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • emadden
    emadden Posts: 2,431
    deejay wrote:
    ....

    It certainly is.
    Is that why the Italians only raced for second place. ?
    ....


    Of course... as an example, Pettachi is betting on Ventoso's lab result coming back positive after his stage 6 victory... thats why Pettachi stopped when he was in front with just 20m to go :lol::lol::lol::lol:
    **************************************************
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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    disgruntledgoat wrote:

    If this isn't resolved by the start of the Tour, I'm not watching any of it. I know it won't make any difference and nobody cares if I do or not, but I just cannot imagine myself deriving any enjoyment from it bar the scenery.

    in all honesty I am so far off this place myself

    it not the drug taking as much as the farcical hypocrisy that it killing it for me...

    the whole sport is becoming a joke... the good news if you want some is that the transparent nature of the farce does indicate possible resolution of some sort because the whole thing is a collapsing house of cards in plain view...they cant brush it under the carpet so the only place to go is to clean it up.... or the sport collapses

    I will be watching the tour less so for the racing but more for the political drama that is bound to ensue

    oh the drama!
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    mididoctors wrote:

    it not the drug taking as much as the farcical hypocrisy that it killing it for me...

    This.

    And I speak as someone who never understood all those people who just switched off totally from watching the sport.

    I'll always tune in for the classics though.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • luckao
    luckao Posts: 632
    jswba wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    I've not read said Puff Piece, worth a look?

    I stopped buying PC for precisely that reason. I think its a big problem that the magazine industry has with sport. To get adverts, they need exclusives, to get exclusives, they need access and to get access they need to keep teams, riders and administrators onside.

    None of this lends itself to decent, objective journalism.

    I wouldn't bother. There's nothing in there at all. He did it in Spanish with lawyers saying they'll take on any questions regarding doping. There's a lot in there about how the case has made AC more defensive and less trusting of people outside his circle (shades of Lance, methinks) and a bit about how Saxobank is better than Astana before a repeat of how disillusioned he is with the sport now that he's under suspicion for activities that were not his fault. It's mostly guff, enlivened only by his insistence that he's been 'unequivocal' in his support for anti-doping measures.....

    I don't think a front cover has invoked my cynicism quite as much as that one. Honestly, why bother. It's hardly going to be a candid, enlightening piece that's in any way conducive to the matter. A far cry from their interview with the perpetually controversial Ricco (""I took the p**s out of them on the climbs", he scoffs.")
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    What if...

    Contodor has been clean and only won by small margins because his competitors were doping.

    Now his competitors are clean too the gulf between his superhuman efforts and the rest has widened...

    Likely a load of b0llocks though :)
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    NapoleonD wrote:
    What if...

    Contodor has been clean and only won by small margins because his competitors were doping.

    Now his competitors are clean too the gulf between his superhuman efforts and the rest has widened...

    Likely a load of b0llocks though :)

    I think they are all bl00dy at it still TBH

    I suspect it may be cleaner than it was.. but this yr I smell a "new methodology" in the bunch

    (I'm looking at RAB here)
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Quite so Midi

    I went through a brief period of optimism about 18 months ago, but now I'm firmly in the camp that every GC contender is up to something. I can think of one I would trust further than I could throw him and that isn't based on anything rational.

    Gilbert still gives me some hope for one dayers.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Quite so Midi

    I went through a brief period of optimism about 18 months ago, but now I'm firmly in the camp that every GC contender is up to something. .

    my thinking is we have a way to go before we hit rock bottom.... more and more is going to come out of the feted rotting woodwork...

    the LA thing and UCI corruption angle is like turning over a log to see its infested with Lice and horrid twisting tormented burrowing centipedes.... its so nasty
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Thing is though, that anyone who followed the sport at more than a casual level knew all that was there anyway. This just exposes it to a wider audience.

    I think that the biggest obstacle to progress is still the Omerta that persists within the peloton. Until somebody can do a Bassons with impunity, and the sport sit up and take notice, or until some of these "I'm dead against doping and I wish those guys would stop doing it" start naming names nothing will ever change.

    Ironically for such a corrupt occupation, it's practicioners have an aversion to backstabbing that would shame most normal careers!
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Thing is though, that anyone who followed the sport at more than a casual level knew all that was there anyway. This just exposes it to a wider audience.

    I think that the biggest obstacle to progress is still the Omerta that persists within the peloton. Until somebody can do a Bassons with impunity, and the sport sit up and take notice, or until some of these "I'm dead against doping and I wish those guys would stop doing it" start naming names nothing will ever change.

    Ironically for such a corrupt occupation, it's practicioners have an aversion to backstabbing that would shame most normal careers!

    thats the thing at what point does the omerta flip to a code of outing.....ie if you dope you find your self in a ditch or isolated in the peloton or denounced?

    when it happens it will be a surprise.... needs a big name(s) to do it thou.. some nobodies from cofidis staging a start-line protest counts for nothing yet.....

    but tipping points are just that...they go from one state directly to another where the gradual reality of how it came about is only seen in the rear view mirror
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    mididoctors wrote:

    I think they are all bl00dy at it still TBH

    I suspect it may be cleaner than it was.. but this yr I smell a "new methodology" in the bunch

    (I'm looking at RAB here)

    Why them?

    Gesink has done well this year but is a top rider. Matthews did well at the start of the season but then he had presumably been racing down under during the winter. Kruijswijk was not that much of a surprise to me. He finished 18th last year despite only knowing he was racing two days beforehand (although being a reserve he would have been in good condition). He lost a lot of time early on meaning he was never going to finish high up and did well on the mountains in the last week, maybe sometimes working for Mollema.Ttherefore a tougher race this year should have seen him do well. I had him down as coming 12th finishing just behind the leaders on the tougher stages.
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    mididoctors wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Quite so Midi

    I went through a brief period of optimism about 18 months ago, but now I'm firmly in the camp that every GC contender is up to something. .

    my thinking is we have a way to go before we hit rock bottom.... more and more is going to come out of the feted rotting woodwork...

    the LA thing and UCI corruption angle is like turning over a log to see its infested with Lice and horrid twisting tormented burrowing centipedes.... its so nasty

    Yep, we have Armstrong/USPS investigation, Lampre investigation, Ferrari investigation all to come out - i think Lampre should be fairly soon? Some riders werent allowed to start the Giro. Its all speculation until we get charges and evidence but it seems that the Armstrong investigation could go a long way beyond the did he/didnt he dope question
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Cumulonimbus wrote:

    Why them?

    .

    totally unjustified guesswork forms the central component of my ironclad hypothesis
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • nickwill
    nickwill Posts: 2,735
    He is guilty. Clenbuterol was in his system. It doesn't matter how it got there, the rules are black and white. The delays have been caused initiially by the Spanish authorities submitting reams of paperwork at the last minute just before Christmas, then by their unjustifiable acquittal, and now by Contador's lawyers stringing things out in the appeal process in order to allow him to ride the Tour this summer.
    I watched very little of the Giro this summer because I couldn't bear to see what was going on. From what I did see, Contador was once again 'on another planet'.
    A complete disgrace!
    http://lakescyclist.wordpress.com/
  • BarryBonds
    BarryBonds Posts: 344
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Don't get me wrong Deejay, I believe very strongly in innocent until proven guilty. My proviso would be however that, firstly, I strongly believe him to be guilty of far worse than they have got him on and, secondly, under the rules of the sport he's already been proven guilty.

    I also believe that everyone is equal before the law and that position should not be able to get you off.

    But hes been found innocent.
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    mididoctors wrote:
    Cumulonimbus wrote:

    Why them?

    .

    totally unjustified guesswork forms the central component of my ironclad hypothesis

    :lol:
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Jimmy Carr has just tweeted this-

    If everyone did drugs in sport it would be a level playing field. Unless the drug was LSD, then it would be a castle on a hill made of lava.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Strangely the writer (lets not call him a 'journo') seems to have no problem praising a convicted doper, yet lambasts an, as yet, unproven one ...

    saying that there's 3 pages on here advertising their website and magazine ... maybe we should get this guy to have coke put pepsi in their vending machines ...
  • carl_p
    carl_p Posts: 989
    mididoctors wrote:
    NapoleonD wrote:
    What if...

    Contodor has been clean and only won by small margins because his competitors were doping.

    Now his competitors are clean too the gulf between his superhuman efforts and the rest has widened...

    Likely a load of b0llocks though :)

    I think they are all bl00dy at it still TBH

    I suspect it may be cleaner than it was.. but this yr I smell a "new methodology" in the bunch

    (I'm looking at RAB here)

    Of course they are, a level playing field in my view. If the best rider on the planet feels the need to gain an extra advantage, then whatever must the others, who fight for scraps be doing?

    Perhaps they should give the Schlek brothers a good dose so that this year's Tour is worth watching. :wink:
    Specialized Venge S Works
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    Turn the corner, rub my eyes and hope the world will last...
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,858
    BarryBonds wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    Don't get me wrong Deejay, I believe very strongly in innocent until proven guilty. My proviso would be however that, firstly, I strongly believe him to be guilty of far worse than they have got him on and, secondly, under the rules of the sport he's already been proven guilty.

    I also believe that everyone is equal before the law and that position should not be able to get you off.

    But hes been found innocent.

    But RFEC didn't apply the law, hence the UCI appeal. If justice isn't done and seen to be done, defending someone on the basis that they were found innocent doesn't cut it.
  • RowCycle
    RowCycle Posts: 367
    it not the drug taking as much as the farcical hypocrisy that it killing it for me...
    I agree. The most annoying part is that it has not been sorted.

    Although you have to think that if he was innocent than it would all be sorted by now!
  • Mr Dog
    Mr Dog Posts: 643
    +1 for Crankbrother. Millar may still be racing but until life bans are dished out the sport is a farce. :cry:
    Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    Mr Dog wrote:
    +1 for Crankbrother. Millar may still be racing but until life bans are dished out the sport is a farce. :cry:

    Why? Surely you accept that for every pro who gets caught, 50 are doing exactly the same thing but their doctor doesn't f**k it up?
  • Mr Dog
    Mr Dog Posts: 643
    Sadly yes, but the clean rider is getting shafted. Fear is only way to control. Ban and lock em up along with the doctor.
    Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?
  • P_Tucker
    P_Tucker Posts: 1,878
    Mr Dog wrote:
    Sadly yes, but the clean rider is getting shafted. Fear is only way to control. Ban and lock em up along with the doctor.

    Wrong. Plenty of research has been done in the realm of criminal law - more severe sentences don't act as a deterrent to any great extent - it's the likelihood of being caught that influences behaviour.
  • Crankbrother
    Crankbrother Posts: 1,695
    Mr Dog wrote:
    +1 for Crankbrother. Millar may still be racing but until life bans are dished out the sport is a farce. :cry:

    At no point did i say anything about life bans ... I don't even care about who dopes ... I just can't stand the pick and choose nature of most of the uk cycling press ... The people behind cycling weekly/cyclesport and david harmon are the worst ...
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Mr Dog wrote:
    Fear is only way to control. Ban and lock em up along with the doctor.

    Doesn't work. Look at the death penalty! People still do the naughties...

    One thing that needs to change is the attitude. We need the Dickensian 'social death' - i.e.get caught doping then not only are you banned but you become a social pariah, no teams will sign you, it's the opposite of the omerta. Only then I think it will change.

    Plus as P Tucker says, it's too easy to avoid detection at present, and then when detected, too easy to muddy the waters.
  • Mr Dog
    Mr Dog Posts: 643
    Have to agree the science of detection is all too easy thwarted by masking agents etc but thats where the funding needs to go. If the punishment vastly outweighs the crime then l believe life bans and jail sentence would deter most potential cheats. We now have drug use in recreational athletes, sport is dying at every level. We can't just stand by and watch it turn into an even more perverted circus.
    Why tidy the house when you can clean your bike?

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