Canyon vs Rose

zoso7

Looking for some advice on what to get.

I've admired the Canyon for a longtime and was about to pull the trigger but now i've came across this Rose of the same price and its very appealing also. We all know how good the Canyon frame is and I love the look of it but its hard trying to find a proper review on the frame of the Rose.

The Canyon
http://www.canyon.com/_uk/roadbikes/bike.html?b=2113

The Rose
http://www.rosebikes.co.uk/article/rose-carbon-pro-rs-4400-double/aid:472262[u]

Canyon specs in a nutshell, Full Ultegra, Mavic Ksyrium Equipe. £1749

Rose specs in a nutshell, Full Sram Force, DT Swiss R1500 £1749

The Rose can also be configured to a different spec, different seatpost, stem, bars wheels etc whereas the Canyon can't. Please check the configurations to see if this package could become even better. Wheels can be changed for Ksyrium Elite at no extra charge for example, which is better the Ksyrium Elite or the DT Swiss R1500's ?

The Rose Also Has internal cabling whereas the Canyon Doesn't but I do slightly prefer the look of the Canyon frame.

The Ultegra vs Force isn't an issue, i'd be happy with both.

On the face of it it seems like the Rose is slightly better spec'd but is this to the detriment of the frame?!

What should I go for, the Canyon with its well proven frame or the Rose with its better components but unknown frame quality?

Thanks[/u]

rc856

Same old question of you be able to try the bikes out?
The best looking might not feel right for you.
Any differences in warranties etc?
Both seem good for the price!

mcrdave

Definitely a very even comparison but personally I would go for the Canyon. You've got a tour proven frame and forks there, Rose - still early days. It might be as good but until it's tested, it'd be a gamble.

zoso7

I'm not gonna be able to try them out i'm afraid so just gonna judge what to purchase on advice & personal preference I think, but want to get the best one if there is clearly a better one of the two.

Good point on the warranties, hadn't thought about that. both offer 2 years on componets and Canyon offer upto 6 years on frame and forks and Rose offer upto 10 years on frame and forks.

They do seem good for the price thats why my heart is pretty much settled on one of these above trek, giant spesh etc. as I think their better value for money.

Gazzaputt

As I say on every 'shall I buy a Canyon?' thread.

I own both a CF and AL and was lucky enough to be able to teat the CF before purchase. Honestly cannot be beaten imo.

dawebbo

If it was my money and it had to be one of those two, I'd go for the Canyon.

Every other person I speak to seems to be buying a Canyon at the moment.

pmannion9

Canyon all the way. Going to get an CF SLX.
They have a huge sale on during Tour de France so worth waiting..


Guys familiar with TdF sale - Is the discount on complete bikes as well as framesets?
I cant remember...

zoso7

I had heard about the TdF discount, how much does the discount work out at?!

Do you need to be really quick off the mark and will there be a long delivery time because i dont wanna miss most of the summer?

pmannion9

Discount up to 40%
Yes need to be quick and limited stock.

RDB66

Canyon...nuff said.

lemoncurd

Personally I find the Ultegra shifters much more comfortable than SRAM Rivals (I'm assuming Force are a similar shape).

The Canyon looks way cooler as well.

wombler

Unless you are absolutely sure of the geometry, don't buy a bike without test riding it, especially if you are spending that kind of money. No point in having something that's not spot on.

I have a Canyon CF and highly recommend it, but I test rode it first.

jimmythecuckoo

mcrdave wrote:

Definitely a very even comparison but personally I would go for the Canyon. You've got a tour proven frame and forks there, Rose - still early days. It might be as good but until it's tested, it'd be a gamble.

Rose have been going for years on the continent... its only early days for the UK market.

zoso7

Yeah it seems they have been going for years in Europe and do have a good reputation from the little I can find on the net but cant read German so cant seem to get any comprehensive reviews in English.

burrage9

I made this exact same decision not long ago, and in the end went for the rose. This was foir a few reasons:

-It is *slightly* lighter

-Force beats Ultegra IMO

-I think the finishing kit is slightly better

-But mainly because i could customise it. In the end I went for Ksyrium SL wheels and upgraded the shifters and chainrings/bb to Red. The total price came to a smidge under £2000.

The bike itself is exactly what i expected: light, VERY stiff under power, but maybe a little harsh on the ride. Actually thats probably not fair, i should instead say it transmits a bit of road buzz, but only a little bit. Since i bought it for racing, this was ideal for me, but you might have a different opinion, if you want to use it for something different.

Having said all of that, my training partner rides the Canyon, and he is more than happy with his. The differences are pretty small, to be honest. Oh, and one last thing, everyone out there is getting a Canyon - but if you get the rose you'll spend your whole life answering questions about it, I know i do!

zoso7

burrage9 wrote:

I made this exact same decision not long ago, and in the end went for the rose. This was foir a few reasons:

-It is *slightly* lighter

-Force beats Ultegra IMO

-I think the finishing kit is slightly better

-But mainly because i could customise it. In the end I went for Ksyrium SL wheels and upgraded the shifters and chainrings/bb to Red. The total price came to a smidge under £2000.

The bike itself is exactly what i expected: light, VERY stiff under power, but maybe a little harsh on the ride. Actually thats probably not fair, i should instead say it transmits a bit of road buzz, but only a little bit. Since i bought it for racing, this was ideal for me, but you might have a different opinion, if you want to use it for something different.

Having said all of that, my training partner rides the Canyon, and he is more than happy with his. The differences are pretty small, to be honest. Oh, and one last thing, everyone out there is getting a Canyon - but if you get the rose you'll spend your whole life answering questions about it, I know i do!

This is exactly the type of response I was hoping for. I do like the fact you can customise the Rose and aesthetically I do slightly prefer the look of Force over Ultegra altho I haven't used any in practice. But then I do prefer the look of the Canyon frame and its reputation speaks for itself.

Your right about getting asked questions and that has crossed my mind also, I don't know whether that would annoy me after a while or if I would revel in the fact people are mystified by my unusual bike.

Regards the slightly harsh ride, your saying you use it for racing and it suits your uses, I am not a racer altho I wouldn't rule it out in future but my intended usage at the moment would be for training/fitness rides and longer rides upto 100miles at the weekend. the Canyon has a reputation for being stiff but comfortable so i'm wondering whether after 100 miles in the saddle if I would feel a little beat up on the Rose?

Thanks for the response.

msw

wombler wrote:

Unless you are absolutely sure of the geometry, don't buy a bike without test riding it, especially if you are spending that kind of money. No point in having something that's not spot on.

I have a Canyon CF and highly recommend it, but I test rode it first.

How does one get a test ride - don't they only sell direct? I'm looking at possibly getting a Canyon in the next couple of months and have been wavering simply because of this no test ride problem.

pmannion9

Only through someone who already owns one !!!
It is no longer possible to get a test ride in UK - according to their UK representative.
I believe previously you could arrange for a test ride down South somewhere but this facility is no longer available...

Maybe a trip the factory !!!

galatzo

"after 100 miles in the saddle if I would feel a little beat up on the Rose?"

You should feel a bit rough after a hundred.

What about Campag....

msw

Gazzaputt wrote:

As I say on every 'shall I buy a Canyon?' thread.

I own both a CF and AL and was lucky enough to be able to teat the CF before purchase. Honestly cannot be beaten imo.

Would be interested to know your thoughts on the difference between the 2 - I'm considering high end AL (well if it's good enough for Phil...) vs low-end CF.

Gazzaputt

msw wrote:

Gazzaputt wrote:

As I say on every 'shall I buy a Canyon?' thread.

I own both a CF and AL and was lucky enough to be able to teat the CF before purchase. Honestly cannot be beaten imo.

Would be interested to know your thoughts on the difference between the 2 - I'm considering high end AL (well if it's good enough for Phil...) vs low-end CF.

I own the Ultimate CF Evo Pro and a Ultimate AL.

The 2 main differences I notice are weight the CF is about 300g lighter and the AL seems to feel more forgiving on rough surfaces.

Acceleration and climbing is better on the CF due it being so stiff. The CF does seem to float along at speed say above 20mph.

The AL has a SRAM Rival\Force\Apex build with Ksyrisum Equipes, Conti gators, FSA finishing kit and Arione

The CF has SRAM Red, R-Sys premiums, Ritchey WCS finishing kit, Conti Force/Attacks and Arione.

I have ridden the AL with R-Sys on it and it really transformed it into great bike from a good bike.

What i can say it is a hard choice what one to ride!

zoso7

Gazzaputt, what size have you got?!

i'm about 188cm tall, 88cm inseam and the Canyon sizing suggests a 60 which I think will fit but I also think a 58 with a longer stem would fit too. Obviously if I do choose the Canyon over the Rose i'll give them a call to discuss but was hoping some owners on here could assist us interested folk regarding sizing?

Mccaria

I am 189cm tall and 90cm inseam.

I have a 60cm CF slx and have swapped in a 12 cm stem versus the 11 cm stem that comes with it. The top tube is 57.5cm. The 58cm frame has too short a top tube for me at 56.5cm, especially as the longest stem they do is 12 cm (I asked about a 13cm stem but apparently they don't do it).

I bought just the frame and have built it up with a dura ace 7800 goupset I already had. If you don't like the way they spec the frame, they have some very good offers on frames only, making for a very competitively priced self build.

zoso7

Mccaria wrote:

I am 189cm tall and 90cm inseam.

I have a 60cm CF slx and have swapped in a 12 cm stem versus the 11 cm stem that comes with it. The top tube is 57.5cm. The 58cm frame has too short a top tube for me at 56.5cm, especially as the longest stem they do is 12 cm (I asked about a 13cm stem but apparently they don't do it).

I bought just the frame and have built it up with a dura ace 7800 goupset I already had. If you don't like the way they spec the frame, they have some very good offers on frames only, making for a very competitively priced self build.

Thanks Mccaria, sounds as though we are very similar dimensions altho i'm a tad smaller so the 60cm might be a good fit for me.

I currently ride a large Giant Defy with 57.5cm effective top tube and 13cm stem but not a set back seatpost so the 60cm Canyon with 57.5cm top tube, 11cm stem and set back seatpost should be very similar reach wise altho a more aggressive position, would you agree?!

I assume you agree and think the 60cm would probably be the best fit for me?!

The frames are a great deal for a self build, I am fairly happy with the built bike with full ultegra, mavic ksyrium equipe, its a big step up from my Defy with full tiagra and alex rims but that is still a good bike in its own right.

Mccaria

Sounds about right. Tha canyon,especially with the headset they use has quite a high effective head tube, so I find it to not be a particularly aggressive position at the front.

I agree the 6700 is a very good groupset, have it on another bike and have had no complaints.

If you are ever in Surrey you are welcome to try it out - but given your location its probably quicker for you to go direct to Germany !

zoso7

Cheers again Mc, thanks for the advice, you have reassured me and put my doubts at ease.

Thanks for the offer, if im passing by Surrey i'll be sure to give you a shout!

burrage9

zoso7 wrote:

Your right about getting asked questions and that has crossed my mind also, I don't know whether that would annoy me after a while or if I would revel in the fact people are mystified by my unusual bike.

Most people are only very complimentary when they ask me about it - and i dont think anyone gets bored of people saying nice things about their bikes!

zoso7 wrote:

Regards the slightly harsh ride, your saying you use it for racing and it suits your uses, I am not a racer altho I wouldn't rule it out in future but my intended usage at the moment would be for training/fitness rides and longer rides upto 100miles at the weekend. the Canyon has a reputation for being stiff but comfortable so i'm wondering whether after 100 miles in the saddle if I would feel a little beat up on the Rose?
Thanks for the response.

Personally, i dont mind the harsh ride - i would much rather have it that way and get all of my power down, than a comfy ride and be flexing the frame. However, I can imagine some people might not feel the same, Im the kind of rider who doesnt mind a bit of suffering, but i cant assume everyone is the same! So *i* wouldnt hesitate to do a century on it, no problem at all, but i cant guarantee that you'll feel the same! I would also point out that just as important as the frame is getting a saddle that fits you. Since this is something you could change on the rose, that might count in its favor, and although you cant go and try the bike, you certainly can go out and sit on some fiziks and find which one works best!

pastey_boy

i actually threw a rose into the grand canyon, and being honest id say the canyon won. the rose lost all its petals on impact yet the canyon was unscathed. i hope this helps.

FatCycleRider

The Pro-RS 4400 gets a very good review.

http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/bikes/road/product/review-rose-pro-rs-4400-11-43913/

I have the baby version of it, the Pro-SL 2000. Rose have been making bikes for over 100 years. The frames are built in Taiwan and then hand finished and assembled in Germany. They are also the biggest mail order bike retailer in Europe, so if they sell it, you can have it on your new bike.

ShutUpLegs

pastey_boy wrote:

i actually threw a rose into the grand canyon, and being honest id say the canyon won. the rose lost all its petals on impact yet the canyon was unscathed. i hope this helps.

uSEFUL

MarcoX

Is the ROSE that much stiffer than the Canyon? What are your thoughts? Anybody tested both?