Calling MTB Wheelbuilders..

rubbernekker

I had a young lad into my workshop yesterday with a very nice (on paper) pair of Wheels-DT Swiss 240 discs with Stans Notube rims - Conti tubeless tyres- v light indeed.

But the build was, in my view very odd indeed..the front was built 2X both sides but the rear was 2X cross nondrive 1X driveside.

Now I'm a pretty experienced road wheel builder and this represents pretty close to the minimum pattern I would use on a nondisc road wheel, let alone a wheel affected by high torsional loads. Lots of stuff you aren't supposed to do works well if you are diligent enough.

My question is- Am I being a stick in the mud if I tell him about my reservations- the shop that did it is a well respected one and I know the mechanics aren't inexperienced. Have any of you built a wheel this light on weight and spoke X's and had it work well

I've tried very low spoke counts on wheels before but my wheelbuilding mentors told me never to under-tangent a disc wheel, in addition to this none of the usual wheel building conventions had been observed ie lineup of hub and rim graphics, valve hole between parallels etc.

I'm especially interested in anyone who has tried stuff like this on an MTB wheel

Your views please..

Tank-slapper

Stan's don't actually recommend the 240s hubs for use with their rims because of the high drive side angle in the rear wheel. However, the wheels I am currently using are 240s hubs laced to Olympic rims with Supercomp spokes in a 3x pattern. They are plenty strong enough for XC purposes, but 2x and 1x is pushing it.

The rear wheel sounds very strange. If anything, the 2x pattern should be on the drive side and 1x on the non-drive side.

What are the spokes?

2Phat4Rapha

rubbernekker wrote:

Now I'm a pretty experienced road wheel builder
... in addition to this none of the usual wheel building conventions had been observed ie lineup of hub and rim graphics, valve hole between parallels etc.

Go with your experience. You already know what you are looking at is just wrong. The valve hole position alone is enough to show the wheel was put together by someone who didn't know what they were doing.

Subject to Tank-slapper's advice, new spokes and a rebuild I reckon.

rubbernekker

Tankslapper - spokes were branded 2.0/1.8/2.0

It's interesting what you said about the high flange and spoke angle- that may be a reason to drop down to 2x- but never one. I've read Wheelpros view on Stans and with a wheel that light there are things I guess you just don't do. In fact- Specialized's experiments with 2x on their DT equipped FSR's were an abject failure. That could have been the build though.
TFFR- the wheels have just been rebuilt- he only brought them in to use my mega-compressor to get a seal on his tubeless- But the seal tape has been laid badly. You are right- the whole thing is a wrong 'un and he'll have to be tole'.

Tank-slapper

The spokes sound like DT Competitions or similar which are stronger than more 'high end' spokes, but even so I would still prefer them to be 3x pattern all round.

Some manufacturers make 2x, 1x and even radial pattern MTB wheels, but the reduction in strength is compensated for by using meatier rims and hub flanges, straight pull spokes, high spoke tension, rim brakes instead of discs, etc. Your friend's wheels are built of standard off the shelf parts and therefore should use a standard off the shelf pattern.

Suggest a rebuild to him with an estimate of cost. If he declines, don't be surprised to see him again soon with some broken spokes, or maybe even the wheel below:

njee20

That was a Mavic R-Sys pre re-design, sod all to do with lacing pattern!

The Stan's Podium wheelset come with 2x and 2x/1x on 1.8/1.5mm Revolutions, so there's a precedent set by NoTubes themselves. They use AM Classic hubs, which have bigger flanges, but he's hardly taking his life into his hands. They're obviously a reasonably light set of wheels, so he's unlikely to be expecting them to put up with repeated 10ft drops!

It's an odd choice though, I'd go (I have gone in fact) Revolutions (the 2.0/1.5mm ones) 3x all round which will give a lighter build, rather than a heavier spoke with a less common lacing pattern.

Edit: although the old Podium wheelsets were 2x and 2x/1x, the new ones on their own hubs are 3x, and 3x/2x.

However... my own Podium wheels are 1246g including yellow tape and valves, 3x all round and were less than £300, so I'd not rush to buy the Stan's ones :-)

nicklouse

njee20 wrote:

It's an odd choice though, I'd go (I have gone in fact) Revolutions (the 2.0/1.5mm ones) 3x all round which will give a lighter build, rather than a heavier spoke with a less common lacing pattern.

would have been my build of choice. But as a heavier rider I always go 3X at least.

njee20

You probably wouldn't be chosing 290g rims with a 70kg weight limit in the first place then :-)

rubbernekker

I'll reserve judgement then, however the spoke pattern causes me more concern not because I reckon he'll be hucking his carbon hardtail, but because of the braking forces - The courses in NZ tend to be fast and pretty steep.

I guess I'd be more confident if there was a little more attention to detail in the build.

Thanks for your replies.

njee20

Well the NoTubes Podium wheelsets have been raced at countless world cup/world champs races, so I doubt it'll be a huge issue, they're using far lighter components too.

What's the worst that's gonna happen anyway, he's not about to rip all the spokes out the rim. They may not be spectacularly stiff.