Garmin 800 Routing - I know this has been asked before...

Secteur

...but I cant find the threads.

When I put routes on my Garmin 800 that I create with ridewithgps (transferred as gpx), the garmin essentially completely ignores the route and just calculates it's own route, sometimes knocking as much as 25% of the mileage off.

It completely ruins my routes and gets me lost - totally defeating the point of buying it!

My garmin website doesnt let you routeplan.

So - what do I do??!

Secteur

Just realised garmin has it's onw software - basecamp - I will download and try this now - I assume this will work flawlessly & directly with the 800 unit...

Secteur

Further update - use any route program but export GPX Track (not "just" GPX).

Also disable "recalculate on"

Also enable "turn guidance"

Info for anyone else who may be struggling!

HiMoz

Importing a GPX route of the net and expecting turn by turn routing from the edge 800 is very difficult to achieve and always quite risky that it's go balls up!

However using the Basecamp routing tool I have experienced flawless turn by turn routing from my Edge 800. The software isn't as quick nor easy to use as some of the web apps however I do have some tips to speed things up.

My favourite method if I'm wanted to follow a route from the likes of biketoaster etc is first to download the .gpx and import it to basecamp. I then use this as simply a template to place my points and create my route using the basecamp routing tool. Make sure to use more points than seems necessary especially around junctions etc as the basecamp routing algorithm has been found to be slightly different from the one installed on the edge so the route could change slightly once uploaded.

When finishing of I always use the route player to make sure I've put all my points in the right order, is very very easy to place one in the wrong place on the list by mistake!

Another new method I tried for the first time today with success which *should* save some time was to import the .gpx from the internet into base camp as with the above, but then right click it and turn into route. You then have to check the route and make sure its going where you want (which is most likely wont!) when you discover a deviation you can add your own points and delete the points made for you to make it go where it's suppose to!

The first method is probably the easiest to get going with. If you're fairly confident you know what direction your route is going and how to manipulate it with points to solve errors in the route then to save some time might be worth having a go at.

Hope this helps!

kettrinboy

If you want the 800 to follow your route exactly either on or off road, then creating the route using the OS 50k or City Navigator maps on Basecamp works best for me,then using the same map in the 800 that you created the route from on Basecamp means the turn by turn prompts are accurate to a few feet assuming good satellite lock, RWGPS is faster using the "follow roads" to draw a route, but ive found i cant get it to use some minor roads that i like.

springtide9

I believe TCX files with better with the 800 with RWGPS (I have used this once... but it worked really well)

More info at:
http://ridewithgps.com/edge_800

(gives the advantages and disadvantages)

Think you need to turn off 'auto calculate' if using GPX files.

As people are also talking about BaseCamp... how on earth do you get any detail on the map? I only seem to see very high level major roads and nothing else.

kettrinboy

springtide9 wrote:

As people are also talking about BaseCamp... how on earth do you get any detail on the map? I only seem to see very high level major roads and nothing else.

I use my 800,s OS 50k SD card, in the laptop , not sure but i think you can also download maps off the net and use them, without that on Basecamp by default you just get the crap Garmin basemap and thats no good for planning routes at all really.

Nerrep

From reading around, nobody seems to be particularly concerned at just how bad Garmin devices are at doing what they're advertised to do. It's compromises and workarounds all the way -- and this really hacks me off. Nobody else?

squeeler

Nerrep wrote:

From reading around, nobody seems to be particularly concerned at just how bad Garmin devices are at doing what they're advertised to do. It's compromises and workarounds all the way -- and this really hacks me off. Nobody else?

I've got a 705 but as far as I understand it the tcx is the correct file format to use, that is what the garmin stores internally anyway. Isn't the the gpx format a generic transfer format so it maybe does not work as well as Garmins own tcx?

Anyway I've always used tcx format and not had any problems since mid 2007 when I think I got it! (apart from once when I somehow managed to reverese the route and could not work out how to flip it back again.)

In short a Garmin does what it is supposed to do so long as you do it correctly, it is not a work around to use the tcx format, is it not simply the correct way to use it?

squeeler

By the way my workflow for planning on road routes is simply to use Google maps to draw the route using the Get Directions feature then dragging the inbetween points about, save the route using GMapToGPX and then open and save it as a tcx using bikeroutetoaster.

Hope that helps.

okgo

Car sat navs seem to be so much better than bike ones, why is this?

I can put any two places in and will get a perfect route in seconds, why can't this be done with a bike gps?

squeeler

You have a point there, why they aren't as easy to use as a Tom Tom is the real question?
Though personally I've never tried to use my bike gps like that, it's the actual route not the destination that's important. I am using the gps to follow a route I've played about with to make a good ride, not have the gps decide what route I need to take.

Nerrep

squeeler wrote:

Nerrep wrote:

From reading around, nobody seems to be particularly concerned at just how bad Garmin devices are at doing what they're advertised to do. It's compromises and workarounds all the way -- and this really hacks me off. Nobody else?

I've got a 705 but as far as I understand it the tcx is the correct file format to use, that is what the garmin stores internally anyway. Isn't the the gpx format a generic transfer format so it maybe does not work as well as Garmins own tcx?

Anyway I've always used tcx format and not had any problems since mid 2007 when I think I got it! (apart from once when I somehow managed to reverese the route and could not work out how to flip it back again.)

In short a Garmin does what it is supposed to do so long as you do it correctly, it is not a work around to use the tcx format, is it not simply the correct way to use it?

But it *should* be able to give me turn-by-turn directions with appropriate accompanying graphics (as you get with a GPX, in between the crashes, it sending you home after five miles or just not working at all if your route gets over 30 miles).

squeeler

I agree with you what it "should" do but I have just not had these bad experiences, ever, using the tcx format that the garmin uses itself. Why do people seem to insist on using the gpx format when it obviously does not work? Just use tcx! It puts a big pink line on the map and has turn by turn directions if you want.

BTW I'm not defending Garmin for any reason, I think it's PC software is awful, the way it licenses and uses it's maps appaling and the usuability of the actual gps GUI leaves a lot to be desired but point me to a product that does the job better and I will happily buy one, I've had plenty of value out of my 705 over the past 3 years or so.

bendertherobot

I use bikeroutetoaster, have transferred both TCX and GPX files to the 705 and they all work perfeclty.

Peddle Up!

okgo wrote:

Car sat navs seem to be so much better than bike ones, why is this?

I can put any two places in and will get a perfect route in seconds, why can't this be done with a bike gps?

That's what bugs me. We seem to be asked to pay a premium price for something that is still a bit rough around the edges.

Secteur

spent ages planning a route last night - used the correct file format- did loads of research to make sure I transferred it to the 800 correctly, and guess what - NOTHING! Sure, the course was there on the screen, but even with all the correct setting (reroute off etc) it just would not follow my route - it displayed it, but it would not follow it.

The 800 is fantastic for collecting data, and great for routing if I type in to the unit itself the name of the town I want to get to, but it is COMPLETELY USELESS at accepting and using my meticulously pre-planned routes.

Today was a disaster - ended up having to just keep typing in the name of the next village I wanted to get to on my route by memory, and it ruined what should have been a nice ride.

As someone said above - I paid £400 and it has been nothing but difficulty, compromise & failure in getting it to do the only thing I bought it for.

VERY disappointed.

I may be able to fix this, but it SHOULDNT be this hard!!!!

flasher

squeeler wrote:

I've got a 705 but as far as I understand it the tcx is the correct file format to use, that is what the garmin stores internally anyway. Isn't the the gpx format a generic transfer format so it maybe does not work as well as Garmins own tcx?

What folder do you put the tcx file in?

springtide9

@Secteur & @Flasher

Just follow the instructions at:

http://ridewithgps.com/edge_705
http://ridewithgps.com/edge_800

It works really well. I also use TCX files. I rode with the Edge 800 and purposely went off course and cut out a section. It tried to navigate me back to the right course (but I ignored it)... but as soon as I got back on the route... it all was happy again.

From "Ride With GPS" - Edge 800
===================================
TCX

Great for navigation if you need custom cuesheet entries or don't have basemaps!
The TCX format is great if you want to navigate a route from the site which contains custom cuesheet entries. The Edge 800 will navigate you along the route, giving true GPS style navigation with a stylized map containing an overlayed arrow. When you get within 20-30 feet of the cuesheet entry, it will also beep and display the name of the entry. So, you get navigation plus alerts when you come up on your cuesheet entries. One thing to note: the cuesheet entry alert is "dumb" in that it doesn't take into account your direction of travel. Say you get off course and loop around the block, so your left is now a right to get back on course. The cuesheet entry will still say "Left" even though you need to take a "Right". The navigation instructions on the GPS will be correct, but the entry won't. As long as you recognize that limitation, then the TCX is a great format for navigation.
One thing we are working on adding is the ability to "shift" the cuesheet entries some number of feet sooner in the route, so that way a person is notified before the turn that there is an upcoming turn!
One note: the TCX file is intended as a training aid. The Garmin Edge series will have a "virtual partner" that you are racing against - the partner's speed is set by the timestamps we put in the file. For now this is very basic - we don't set the timestamps to be of any help while training. So if you are just navigating a route, trying to avoid being lost rather than trying to maintain a certain speed, you should turn off virtual partner inside the GPS unit.

OK, so how do I get the file on my GPS?
To put a TCX or a GPX file on your Edge 800, export the desired file from our site. Once you have the file saved on your computer (remember where you saved it, whether that's the desktop or downloads folder or wherever), you can transfer it to the Garmin. Every computer is different, but the general idea is that the Edge 800 acts like a USB thumb drive. Plugging it into your computer should allow you to view the files stored on the unit. Once you have it plugged in, open up the "drive" associated with the GPS unit, then open the "Garmin" folder inside the drive. You'll now see a list of several files/folders. One of the folders is called "NewFiles". You should copy (drag the icon) the file to this folder. Once done, safely remove the GPS unit. "Safely remove" means follow your systems instructions for removing a USB flash drive. This, on Windows systems, is usually done by clicking the remove hardware icon in the lower right corner of the screen, next to the clock.
Once the file is transferred to the Edge and the Edge is safely removed from the computer, power the device up. You should be able to find your route under the "Courses" menu. From there it should be fairly self explanatory. Please practice navigating a route with something simple, around your neighborhood, and don't try to do this the first time before a big ride with friends.

bendertherobot

Bikeroutetoaster

Plan course

Upload course to Edge

Follow course

For me it's been foolproof.

squeeler

Flasher wrote:

squeeler wrote:

I've got a 705 but as far as I understand it the tcx is the correct file format to use, that is what the garmin stores internally anyway. Isn't the the gpx format a generic transfer format so it maybe does not work as well as Garmins own tcx?

What folder do you put the tcx file in?

for the 705 you put it in the Garmin\Courses folder.

Springtide seems to have given comprehensive instructions for the 800 and benderthebot has summarised it perfectly. I think Garmin must have really messed up the documentation to leave so many people confused about such a straightforward process!

boblo

Sounds like the autorouting is still as dreadful as the 705.

I use TCX's and autorecalculate 'off'. TCX Courses created in Mapbase/Bikeroutetoaster. No problems, 100% reliable.

flasher

squeeler wrote:

Flasher wrote:

squeeler wrote:

I've got a 705 but as far as I understand it the tcx is the correct file format to use, that is what the garmin stores internally anyway. Isn't the the gpx format a generic transfer format so it maybe does not work as well as Garmins own tcx?

What folder do you put the tcx file in?

for the 705 you put it in the Garmin\Courses folder.

Thanks for that, i've been using the gpx format in the gpx folder, which works fine, but thought I'd give the tcx format a go. Yep Garmin sure don't make it straightforward............

springtide9

The Garmin documentation is terrible... which I don't really understand as it's actually not that complicated LOL
Although to be fair to Garmin... they probably expect you to use their set of applications... which does all this for you via their apps (so no manual copying of files)

I struggled trying to work out what to use... until I found the instructions on RideWithGPS. The text I posted was just a cut and paste from their website.

So for completeness, the instructions are all at:

http://ridewithgps.com/edge_305
http://ridewithgps.com/edge_500
http://ridewithgps.com/edge_705
http://ridewithgps.com/edge_800

mikeq

for my Edge 800

bikehike.co.uk - plot the route and then download as .gpx or .tcx, only difference is .tcx stores and transfers to the Edge any coursepoint notes you might place on the route. So .gpx works just as well if you have no coursepoints

Plug Edge into USB, this then shows up as removable drive on PC (if you also have a microSD card in the device this shows up as separate drive).

On the drive named Garmin, under the garmin folder is a newfiles folder, copy your .gpx/.tcx file into there.

Unplug Edge, job done.

The edge will automatically convert these .gpx/.tcx files into its proprietary .fit format

The Edge 800 does behave like a satnav, you can get it to create a route between 2 points, you however need to have routeable maps loaded onto it, the base maps are not routeable. You either need to purchase City Navigator maps for it or alternatively download the free OSM routeable maps

wyadvd

+1 on bikeroute toaster.. you can import a gpx to BRT (sourced from anywhere at all) and then export it to Garmin as TCX. that works nicely. it even allows inclusion of way markers (directions) I have the sussex surrey scramble and the dun run on my 605 ready.

Secteur

Just to update & redress the balance - I used the Garmin Training Centre file (.tcx) to export the file from ridewithgps, and it worked flawlessly.

Silly me - made a bit of a mountain out of a molehill - I just wished garmin made it more explicit, but there you go.

Did a 50m route in totally unknown territory today and it performed perfectly.

Now very impressed.

dexradio

A useful resource for setting up routing

http://frank.kinlan.co.uk/garmin-edge-8 ... -edge-800/

Dex.