Saddle Angle

Eyon

The general consensus that a flat saddle, or a very slightly down saddle is good, right?

With my setup its got quite a relatively large nose down point, roughly 10 degrees. I sit right at the back of the saddle (San Marco SKN), sit bones on the separated sides where its designed to, with no discomfort to my perineum on longer rides using both the hoods and the drops.

Seating point on my saddle to the bars is roughly and inaccurately measured at 180mm drop, and I can take another 20mm of spacers out if I am using my cip-ons to get a flat-ish back (long legs short back means that even with all the spacers in under the stem I cant get less than 150mm drop)

So technically my saddle setup is wrong, but also its very comfortable (for me). So do I accept it looks weird and get on with it, or am i doing something fundamentally wrong which means I could get long distance comfort and correct leg extension while getting a flat saddle?

I've tried lowering the saddle 10mm or so and flattening it out, but instantly there is pressure were i really dont want pressure!

Ian

father_jack

Depends on the saddle, had my saddle flat but sliding forward slightly, so tipping it up one or two notches on the seat clamp helps..

Monty Dog

Having a nose-down saddle can put more load on the arms / wrist, particularly if you have a big saddle to bar drop. However, if that's what works for you and you remain comfortable then carry on.

Eyon

Sorry, poor photo, but here is the bike setup. Stand holds the bike pretty much level +/- 1 degree

Pseudonym

sorry, but that's just silly. great way of putting extra load on your knee joints, as well as your arms. If that is comfortable for you, then there is something else seriously wrong with your setup....

on-yer-bike

Thats a big drop and it looks like you are trying to manage it by tilting the saddle to an extreme angle. Never seen a saddle at that angle before.

father_jack

yeah pushing back into the saddle by the looks of it.

Eyon

OK so i increase my bar height by the remaining two spacers adding maybe 25mm onto the height of the bar, decreasing saddle to bar drop to about 150mm, and therefore flattening the saddle a bit? Without flipping the stem I cant decrease any more. I am 6 and a little bit foot with a 36" inseam, I cant really get the saddle lower than it is without having a large-ish bend in my knee at BDC. I used to have it lower but had crippling knee pain, since I've had it at that height its painless.

As i said, after 60 mile ride, no aches or pains where aches and pains shouldnt be, wrists knees shoulders all fine,. That saying I could do with a shorter stem.

father_jack

Size of frame?

nferrar

That's not a very big drop, certainly not 18cm (unless you're talking the bottom of the drops)? But yeah that saddle angle is just odd, even if it seems to work for you. Haver you actually tried it flatter for a decent period of time (or different saddles in case you're just compensating for a saddle that doesn't suit you)? Then again if you have no comfort issues or niggles then I guess there's no reason to change...

alistaird

Eyon wrote:

OK so i increase my bar height by the remaining two spacers adding maybe 25mm onto the height of the bar, decreasing saddle to bar drop to about 150mm, and therefore flattening the saddle a bit? Without flipping the stem I cant decrease any more. I am 6 and a little bit foot with a 36" inseam, I cant really get the saddle lower than it is without having a large-ish bend in my knee at BDC. I used to have it lower but had crippling knee pain, since I've had it at that height its painless.

As i said, after 60 mile ride, no aches or pains where aches and pains shouldnt be, wrists knees shoulders all fine,. That saying I could do with a shorter stem.

Hiya,

One option might be to try an adjustable stem. I put one on my new bike build to play around with handlebar height until I was happy...

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12765577

I've now swapped to a fixed RIchie stem.

PM me if you're interested.... it's a cheap and easy way of trying different riding positions.

night_porter

The setup probably looks worse than it is because it looks as though you have a compact frameset (angled top tube).

This sort of gives the impression that is is angled more than it is.

When you are riding your bike can anyone see the angle of the saddle? No of course they cannot and to be perfectly honest does it matter what others think?

I too have to angle my saddle down slightly to relieve pressure and to me comfort is much more important then what someone else thinks. If it feels ok then it probably is!

Eyon

Size of frame?

56cm, Large in Specialized terms. The size up felt far too long.

That's not a very big drop, certainly not 18cm (unless you're talking the bottom of the drops)? But yeah that saddle angle is just odd, even if it seems to work for you. Haver you actually tried it flatter for a decent period of time (or different saddles in case you're just compensating for a saddle that doesn't suit you)? Then again if you have no comfort issues or niggles then I guess there's no reason to change...

Its approx 18cm from the top part of the saddle where my arse is to the mid point in the bars. It's not a great photo. In the drops I am near flat backed with a bend in the arm.

I've tried flatter just when tinkering in the shed, Everything from dead on 0 deg which was awful, to 5 degrees which still felt like there was pressure where pressure shouldnt be. Perhaps I'll have a quick 10 mile spin tonight with a reduced angle see how it feels, but if it feels anything like it does in the shed I best take an allen key.

One option might be to try an adjustable stem. I put one on my new bike build to play around with handlebar height until I was happy...

First off, thats a stunning bike you own, love it! I've though about getting an adjustable stem but not found any at a reasonable price. What length is the one you have? Its mostly the length which at fault, not the angle. I think the one on now is 110mm, even 100mm would be better for me.

alistaird

Eyon wrote:

First off, thats a stunning bike you own, love it! I've though about getting an adjustable stem but not found any at a reasonable price. What length is the one you have? Its mostly the length which at fault, not the angle. I think the one on now is 110mm, even 100mm would be better for me.

Sent you a PM re the Stem.

giant_man

Eyon wrote:

Sorry, poor photo, but here is the bike setup. Stand holds the bike pretty much level +/- 1 degree

dear god !? ........

maddog 2

Crikey :shock:

You should have your sit bones on the rear part of the saddle. For that to happen you should have the saddle at least level and preferrably nose up, so you naturally slide back on the saddlle into the correct place.

On yours you'll just slide forward so you are sitting on your perineum, which is both uncomfortable and potentially damaging. Get those spanners out

Eyon

Giant mancp, thank you for taking the time to write such a helpful post.

Maddog 2. I'm a little confused as to how an upwards pointing saddle will relieve pressure downstairs, surely by sitting on the back of the saddle, and having it pressure up it will end up putting the nose of the saddle into that area as you lean over?

I admit the down slope is quite extreme, and when I'm on the clipons when training on them I will slide forwards onto the nose of the saddle a bit more that normal.

I was advised that by reducing saddle height I should be able to flatten it out? But surely that will mess my leg extension up too?

father_jack

Frame too small?

Eyon

The 58 frame felt far too stretched for me with a 100mm stem. Sadly my legs fit a 58 frame and my upper body a 56!

maddog 2

Eyon wrote:

Maddog 2. I'm a little confused as to how an upwards pointing saddle will relieve pressure downstairs, surely by sitting on the back of the saddle, and having it pressure up it will end up putting the nose of the saddle into that area as you lean over?

I know it might sound counter intuitive but the point is that you've got to get your sit bones on the rear section of the saddle. That's where the support from the saddle is and your sit bones are the part of your pelvis that can handle the loads. Any other position will be problematic IMO.

When you have the saddle nose up you naturally slide back in the saddle, this places the main pressure on your sit bones and takes any pressure off your perineum. You are effectively, sitting on you bones, not your soft flesh.

But the adjustment needs to be done carefully as small changes will require your arse to adjust. And the saddle needs to be the right shape too. I've played around with quite a few to find one that in the right width and shape.

I can do 80 mile rides in bibtights without a pad, because my sit bones take all the pressure and they are, well, toughened up through practice 8)

rake

Eyon wrote:

Giant mancp, thank you for taking the time to write such a helpful post.

Maddog 2. I'm a little confused as to how an upwards pointing saddle will relieve pressure downstairs, surely by sitting on the back of the saddle, and having it pressure up it will end up putting the nose of the saddle into that area as you lean over?

I admit the down slope is quite extreme, and when I'm on the clipons when training on them I will slide forwards onto the nose of the saddle a bit more that normal.

I was advised that by reducing saddle height I should be able to flatten it out? But surely that will mess my leg extension up too?

i find a similar thing. pointing the nose up just seems to put more pressure on the soft bits. i too have a fair bar drop. seems more comfortable to me when the tip of the saddle roughly points at the bars. i think its just your shape, most people have lower saddles and longer bikes which doesnt cause you to tilt forward nearly as much.

Chris James

Further to Maddog 2s post, I have a suspended leather Brooks saddle, so it has a slight sag in the middle.

Setting the saddle so that the front and back are at the same height results in a very slight nose up position.

Bear in mind that the nose of a Brooks is a metal shackle under a leather of hard leather!

I can ride all day on this setup without any discomfort as my weight is supported by my sit bones. My perineum isn't squashed despite the saddle being like a rock and being fractionally upwards (a degree or two). The top of my bars are about three inches below the saddle, but I have fairly deep drop bars and can ride on the drops without any discomfort too.

If I tilt the saddle so that the front section is dead level (so an overall slight back to front angle) then it is still fairly comfy but I can feel extra weight being transferred to my arms.

Your saddle angle is extreme. In fact I have never seen anything like in about 25 years of riding! If it works for you then that's fine. However I can't see how this position cannot result in your weight being largely supported by your hands and shoulders. Can you, for example, ride no handed?

Pro riders have very large drops to their bars and don’t require down sloping saddle positions like yours and they also do masses of miles. Everyone’s biology is pretty much the same down there, so it is unlikely there is anything unique to you that means you require such a non standard setup.

If you are considering changing your saddle angle then I think it would be useful for you to also consider your frame sizing, reach, saddle height, cleat position etc as these may be having an affect requiring you to adopt an extreme saddle position. Perhaps you could post a picture of your position on the bike to see if there is anything that strikes people as odd. Pictures of bikes in isolation can be difficult to analyse.

kfinlay

Think you should have a read of this

http://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/blog/

including areas such as reach, cleat position, saddle height and setback.

I also suspect the saddle isn't right for you - may need something wider depending on your sit bones - if the are quite wide then narrow saddles will push up between them and put pressure on the soft bits that you seem to be experiencing. Specialised dealers have pads that can measure your sit bones - mine's were 120mm c-c so on a 130mm wide saddle they were right on the edges - a 150mm saddle was much better and no discomfort.

HTH

Eyon

Small update. Set the saddle at flat and went for a ride. Managed 7 miles before I had to pull over and put the nose down a little, it was agony! You're right in saying that it pushes you to the rear of the saddle but at the same time, it just wasnt comfortable. I put a small down slope on it and things got much better, but still not perfect.

Is this possibly a message saying that my saddle is just not made for me? I thought I got lucky with the SKN, but looks like I'm not?!

StanwaySteve62

Nose up can appear worse but at least in the case of brooks you must have it that way so you slip into the sweet spot.
Im still shocked how very small changes change things.
Still not fully grasped the affects of fore and aft position though

Ps your tilt is plain wrong

stigofthedump

You might be right that the saddle is the problem. I had a fitting at a specialized shop where they measures the width of my sit bones. I turned out that i needed the widest saddle they make (155mm). If the saddle is too narrow it puts all the weight on your soft tissue - ouch!
The fitting was fairly simple. I sat on a squashy pad in my underpants for a few mins. This left an imprint of my sit bones which could be measured. You could try sitting on corrugated cardboard and measure it yourself. You will find the sizes on the saddles or you could measure the width across the saddle. I actually have a specialised womans road saddle, but it is very comfortable. And no, it isnt pink!

maddog 2

you need a new saddle, and one with a cutout/groove I reckon.

Virtually all the big manufacturers produce something - Spesh, San Marco, Selle Italia and so on.

kfinlay

Could be worth trying like a Selle Italia Max Flite - either the genuine gel or gel flow (cut out version) - not mega cheap but not silly money either (about £70). They are 150mm wide and quite firm so you don't sink into them onto your soft bits. If you were anywhere near Edinburgh I'd offer a loan of mine but Cambridge is a bit far.